Any ascorbic acid based developer that is as simple as Caffenol et al?

[Gerald C Koch]

Pat Gainer was right in cautioning peopple The following is from the DEA msds.

Potential Acute Health Effects:

Extremely hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Very hazardous in
case of skin contact (permeator). Inflammation of the eye is characterized by redness, watering, and itching. Skin inflammation
is characterized by itching, scaling, reddening, or, occasionally, blistering.

Potential Chronic Health Effects:

Extremely hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Very hazardous
in case of skin contact (permeator). CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. Repeated or prolonged inhalation of
dust may lead to chronic respiratory irritation

 

[Rudeofus]

Gainer knew about DEA, IIRC he was of the opinion it should be left to the professionals.with which I agree.It is potentially highly dangerous when hot.

Heating any caustic liquid is a bad idea unless you do it a fully equipped chem lab and take the necessary precautions. There is no reason to heat DEA, though, if you make PC-TEA/DEA, because you could make PC-TEA as normal, then add DEA to the cooled liquid.

Rudi, the Blood formula and keeping properties make me wonder if I can divide my Dimezone-S/AA/sulfite developer. I wouldn't have expected even an acidic PC solution in water to last.

The keeping properties of Dr. Blood's developer make me really curious, too. From what Ryuji Suzuki wrote, Ascorbic Acid is a highly unpredictable compound, and if it goes bad it does unexpectedly and at the most inconvenient time. Dr. Blood's approach is having only Phenidone, Ascorbic Acid and distilled water in the mix, and IIRC Ryuji has already denounced this approach. Long story short, if you want to keep Ascorbic Acid stable in aqueous solution, you need a very powerful sequestering agent: Kodak uses DTPA in Xtol, others have suggested Dequest 2010 (HEDP), Ryuji uses Salicylic Acid and TEA.

@Gerry: thanks for the warning, I tried to downplay the MSDS warning by finding more commonplace compounds with the same warnings, but couldn't find any. Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Hydroxide, Trisodium Phosphate, Glacial Acetic Acid are only "Hazardous in case of skin contact" or "Very hazardous in case of skin contact", but not even 30% Ammonia would be "Extremely hazardous ...". DEA seems to be really nasty stuff!

 

[Alan Johnson]

The keeping properties of Dr. Blood's developer make me really curious, too. From what Ryuji Suzuki wrote, Ascorbic Acid is a highly unpredictable compound, and if it goes bad it does unexpectedly and at the most inconvenient time. Dr. Blood's approach is having only Phenidone, Ascorbic Acid and distilled water in the mix, and IIRC Ryuji has already denounced this approach. Long story short, if you want to keep Ascorbic Acid stable in aqueous solution, you need a very powerful sequestering agent: Kodak uses DTPA in Xtol, others have suggested Dequest 2010 (HEDP), Ryuji uses Salicylic Acid and TEA.

I have his article and Dr Blood did note that Part A should be made up with deionised water to avoid traces of copper and iron. Perhaps these come from the sufite which Ryuji included and Dr Blood did not.
Also, if there is no sulfite, the oxidation of ascorbate did produce a color change in my test so it would be probably be more obvious if the developer oxidized in Dr Blood's case.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Rudeofus]

I have no personal experience with this, but from what Ryuji wrote, deionized water won't cut it. First of all, it is not ultrapurified water (that's what's used in the semiconductor industry) to begin with. Second, you will inevitably introduce impurities during mixing (dust falling in, remnants in your bottles&beakers&stirs, ...). Ryuji claims to have made a major fuss with his suppliers about stainless steel tanks bringing trace amounts of Iron into his liquids.

I have personally seen the effect of ultrapurified water on copper tubings, it simply ate them away because it was so aggressive (that's the law of mass action at work for you). Either the DI water already has some stuff in it that will eventually kill Ascorbic Acid, or it will find a way of getting it from somewhere.

 

[Alan Johnson]

I'm not keen to take on all the Old Fentonians but I made an ascorbate developer lasted 6 months in a half full bottle.

p-aminophenol..............................~8g
Sodium hydroxide..........................<5g
Ascorbic acid..................................15g
Sodium Carbonate anh....................50g
Water to,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1L

Starts on post 28 here:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The problem has been in copper and iron impurities in the chemicals used to make an ascorbate developer. Sodium sulfite and sodium carbonate areparticularly problematical. In the Dr Blood formula part A has only 2 organic chemicals and should not be of as much of a problem. You can always make up this part as a glycol solution.

I personally have no experience with the developer although a similar one appears in Mason. I posted it because it is the simplest ascorbic acid formula and matched the query in the OP.

Commercial grade TEA contains about 15% DEA and this should be taken into consideration when using it. The commercial product has a higher pH than the pure stuff. I get my TEA from http://www.chemistrystore.com/ and their grade of TEA is >= 99% since they sell it for lotions and soaps.

I suggested to Pat Gainer some years ago not to heat the glycol. Doing so only hastens decomposition of the developing agents. With a bit of patience nad stirring hey will go into solution. THEN the TEA is added. The resulting mixture appears to have less decomposition as judged by its color than other preparations.