Anyone tried kodak e6 patent(US5948604)?

[Molli]

Hi all,just for update

Here are some processed by this patent formula.Got to say thanks a lot to Kodak!

And this formula is very expensive and hard to make too,still facing some issues

These are beautiful @czygeorge !
All of your time and hard work (and money!) have paid off.
Really lovely scene - I'm so happy for you that you've been able to immortalise it on film, and slide film at that! Well done.

 

[czygeorge]

These are beautiful @czygeorge !
All of your time and hard work (and money!) have paid off.
Really lovely scene - I'm so happy for you that you've been able to immortalise it on film, and slide film at that! Well done.

Thanks a lot MolliWhat an encouragement
It was shot by my friend and i processed it.Let's hope kodak could recontinue the E6 again(though seems really impossible

 

[Alain Deloc]

Hi all,just for update

Here are some processed by this patent formula.Got to say thanks a lot to Kodak!

And this formula is very expensive and hard to make too,still facing some issues

So where did you bought DTOD and ATMP-Na5 in the end?

 

[czygeorge]

So where did you bought DTOD and ATMP-Na5 in the end?

lamerco's saying is correct
Kodak used to import these chemicals from India and China too

I actually don't know how to get it in your country
If you want to buy it from China I think is really hard the first thing is it's very expensive especially when we bought very little amount and I think chemicals are very tough to ship(abroad)too

Chemical cost in my case is around bit lower than tetnel and ilford(But these two you have to reuse and for this kodak one i can single-use

 

[Alain Deloc]

lamerco's saying is correct
Kodak used to import these chemicals from India and China too

I actually don't know how to get it in your country
If you want to buy it from China I think is really hard the first thing is it's very expensive especially when we bought very little amount and I think chemicals are very tough to ship(abroad)too

Chemical cost in my case is around bit lower than tetnel and ilford(But these two you have to reuse and for this kodak one i can single-use

I think you can re-use it. I mixed these formulas replacing DTOD with KSCN and simply skipping ATMP-Na5 and develop with reusing and it was ok.

 

[czygeorge]

I think you can re-use it. I mixed these formulas replacing DTOD with KSCN and simply skipping ATMP-Na5 and develop with reusing and it was ok.

Thanks Alain,I'll try on that
I've thought that too, just replace reversal(and prebleach maybe)since they both have high oxidize rate,and add FD CD for 30secs.
I didn't try it because you know the reversal film are so EXPENSIVE now,so I just use the highest standard but I think re-use should make sense

 

[Alain Deloc]

Thanks Alain,I'll try on that
I've thought that too, just replace reversal(and prebleach maybe)since they both have high oxidize rate,and add FD CD for 30secs.
I didn't try it because you know the reversal film are so EXPENSIVE now,so I just use the highest standard but I think re-use should make sense

Reversal bath can be replaced with light exposure. Just take the reel out of the tank and let it sit under a light source for few minutes, or hit it with a camera strobe few times from all sides if you don't want to lose time. Bleach can be reused without problems by time extension. The same for fixer.

 

[czygeorge]

Reversal bath can be replaced with light exposure. Just take the reel out of the tank and let it sit under a light source for few minutes, or hit it with a camera strobe few times from all sides if you don't want to lose time. Bleach can be reused without problems by time extension. The same for fixer.

Yes i even bought a 500W bulb

The cost for reversal is like 0.5 usd per litre,so i just use the chemical way

And sure bleach and fix can also replenish use unless the silver rate is too high(i do this way in always all process)

But the prebleach has a very high oxidize rate and it will influence the dmin,so i single use it

 

[Alessandro Serrao]

I got my mercaptotriazole, DTPA-5Na and Dequest 2006 (ATMP-5Na) fron Axelcolor. Suvatlar stocks DTOD and HQMS-K. He stocks some more exotic chemicals that aren't in his pricelist, but you have to ask him.

Suvatlar doen't stock DTOD until you request it and the cost is astronomical. Last time I asked it was like 100€...

 

[Alain Deloc]

Suvatlar doen't stock DTOD until you request it and the cost is astronomical. Last time I asked it was like 100€...

Yes, Suvatlar doesn't do it anymore. But few years ago he had it on stock for a very good price. I skipped the DTOD and I mixed the color developer following Stefan Lange formula which uses KSCN instead of DTOD.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Suvatlar doen't stock DTOD until you request it and the cost is astronomical. Last time I asked it was like 100€...

Ouch... When I bought some a few years ago, it was very reasonable.

 

[lamerko]

Suvatlar doen't stock DTOD until you request it and the cost is astronomical. Last time I asked it was like 100€...

The offer from a month ago

3. DTOD (3,6-Dithia-1,8-octandiol) – CAS: 5244-34-8; 25g/ 107.10€ muss bestellt werden ca. 4 Wochen Lieferzeit

107.10€ - 25g (without VAT - +20%)

Along these lines, I will definitely be using KSCN instead of DTOD.
However, I have a question about other hard-to-find chemicals that I don't understand why they are required:

Dequest 2000 (ATMP) - iron and copper ion sequestrant.
Dequest 2006 (ATMP.Na5) - iron and copper ion sequestrant.
DTPA/DTPA.Na5 - iron and copper ion sequestrant.

In addition to metal ions, they also take care of water hardness. However, there are other sequestrants for this, and I use deionized water. I don't see sources of copper and iron ions anywhere in the formulas - where would they come from? I understand that the recipes are formulated for certain conditions, but I use plastic/bakelite developing tanks at home. I store the solutions in PET bottles. I just do not know. I was able to find some DTPA-5Na and ATMP (Dequest 2000) but I want to know about further…
The first E-6 developer contains a mix of ATMP and DTPA.Na5. Why?!!
When I mix ECN-2 developer tightly sealed in a 500ml PET bottle, it lasts for three months. Without sequestrants and preservatives (only 1 g of sodium sulfite).
Can anyone tell me exactly where things will go wrong if I skip the sequestrants completely under my conditions?

 

[Rudeofus]

Sequestration of trace metals is a difficult task in film developers, since their high pH provides plenty OH- ions, which strongly compete for the metal ions. Even the "strong sequestering agents" are not all that effective at pH 10. Therefore I prefer to trust the choice of sequestering agents shown in real products and would not substitute too much.

The main beauty of these patented formulas is their long lasting concentrates. Stefan's soups have to be used fresh, and these concentrates easily last for a few months. Since the mixing of the full 7 bath setup is quite tedious, stable concentrates come in very handy. And you do need these sequestering agents to make these concentrates last. Fenton reaction is a factor in all photographic developers, albeit not as critical as with Ascorbic Acid. Even if you mix with deionized water, the other developer ingredients contain these trace metals which cause us so much grief.

I have been told, that Suvatlar sells Na5-DTPA 40% weight/weight solution. The company making and selling Dequest products these days is Italmatch. If you can't get this product from Italmatch directly, you can ask them for resellers. There's a non-trivial chance, that their compatriots from Bellinifoto offer these products, since they most likely use them to make their own color kits. Obviously you don't have to get both Dequest 2000 and 2010, since their difference is an easily calculated amount of NaOH.

 

[Alain Deloc]

The offer from a month ago



107.10€ - 25g (without VAT - +20%)

Along these lines, I will definitely be using KSCN instead of DTOD.
However, I have a question about other hard-to-find chemicals that I don't understand why they are required:

Dequest 2000 (ATMP) - iron and copper ion sequestrant.
Dequest 2006 (ATMP.Na5) - iron and copper ion sequestrant.
DTPA/DTPA.Na5 - iron and copper ion sequestrant.

In addition to metal ions, they also take care of water hardness. However, there are other sequestrants for this, and I use deionized water. I don't see sources of copper and iron ions anywhere in the formulas - where would they come from? I understand that the recipes are formulated for certain conditions, but I use plastic/bakelite developing tanks at home. I store the solutions in PET bottles. I just do not know. I was able to find some DTPA-5Na and ATMP (Dequest 2000) but I want to know about further…
The first E-6 developer contains a mix of ATMP and DTPA.Na5. Why?!!
When I mix ECN-2 developer tightly sealed in a 500ml PET bottle, it lasts for three months. Without sequestrants and preservatives (only 1 g of sodium sulfite).
Can anyone tell me exactly where things will go wrong if I skip the sequestrants completely under my conditions?

Of course you can skip all these sequestrants and advanced anticalcium stuff if you are using high purity components. Stefan Lange's formulas for FD and CD are using only cheap Calgon Results are depending more on the pH and quality of dimezone, hydroquinone monosulfonate and KSCN for FD and CD3/citrazinic acid from CD than all these "anti-stuff".

 

[lamerko]

I'm not too sure about the purity of my chemicals. Traders give specific numbers - purity and what impurities they contain, but apparently a lot of chemicals arrive in sacks and larger cuts of unclear quality. Some of them sell them simply in bags, others in not very good quality containers. Hygroscopic chemicals have probably absorbed a lot of moisture. Surprisingly though, what I've mixed so far is probably very close to the expected results.
For Citrazinic acid - until recently there was a chain store in the UK - Silverprint, which unfortunately recently went bankrupt. They had a crude chemicals section - they offered Citrazinic acid at a very good price. £23.00 - 100g including VAT. It is not known with what purity...
I currently have ATMP and DTPA-5Na, but I will test without them to see how long they would last.

 

[Alain Deloc]

I'm not too sure about the purity of my chemicals. Traders give specific numbers - purity and what impurities they contain, but apparently a lot of chemicals arrive in sacks and larger cuts of unclear quality. Some of them sell them simply in bags, others in not very good quality containers. Hygroscopic chemicals have probably absorbed a lot of moisture. Surprisingly though, what I've mixed so far is probably very close to the expected results.
For Citrazinic acid - until recently there was a chain store in the UK - Silverprint, which unfortunately recently went bankrupt. They had a crude chemicals section - they offered Citrazinic acid at a very good price. £23.00 - 100g including VAT. It is not known with what purity...
I currently have ATMP and DTPA-5Na, but I will test without them to see how long they would last.

Suvatlar still sells citrazinic, for some 20 eur per 25 grams (more expensive than UK store)

 

[lamerko]

Suvatlar still sells citrazinic, for some 20 eur per 25 grams (more expensive than UK store)

Half a year ago I bought 100g. by Silverprint. Now I'm glad for that impulse buy. Unfortunately, sources of exotic chemicals are disappearing. Thanks to Suvatlar, I got my hands on a few chemicals that were really hard to find. If he goes out of business, it gets tough…

 

[Pelovsky]

hi Guys! Long time reader, first time poster here For a long time I've been thinking about making my own E6 chemicals, due to constant supply issues with Tetenal Colortec kits, which are basicly the only kits available where I live. I got quite a lot of CD3 for a very reasonable price (to make my own ECN2 developer), so I figured it's not a big deal to go a little bit further and start my own E6. Having read the Stefan Lange's formula, I think the only ingredients I lack are HQMS and Citrazinic Acid. Since they are quite expensive at Suvatlar's, I'd like to try getting them from a supplier located in China (I did that with my CD3 and it was cheap, easy and fast). I would really love to not mix things up when ordering, so can anyone assure me - what is the CAS number of HQMS? is it CAS 21799-87-1?

 

[lamerko]

I got a CD-3 from Alibaba - I am satisfied. But unfortunately, I don't find HQMS there. Someone in the thread wrote that he got it at a very good price - it will be useful for me too. I am interested in such a purchase

 

[JunoChan]

hi Guys! Long time reader, first time poster here For a long time I've been thinking about making my own E6 chemicals, due to constant supply issues with Tetenal Colortec kits, which are basicly the only kits available where I live. I got quite a lot of CD3 for a very reasonable price (to make my own ECN2 developer), so I figured it's not a big deal to go a little bit further and start my own E6. Having read the Stefan Lange's formula, I think the only ingredients I lack are HQMS and Citrazinic Acid. Since they are quite expensive at Suvatlar's, I'd like to try getting them from a supplier located in China (I did that with my CD3 and it was cheap, easy and fast). I would really love to not mix things up when ordering, so can anyone assure me - what is the CAS number of HQMS? is it CAS 21799-87-1?

You can buy it from China alibaba or taobao;And.. Maybe The CAS of HQMS is 37067-27-9, price... very expensive；In China，Citrazinic Acid have a good price！

 

[czygeorge]

hi Guys! Long time reader, first time poster here For a long time I've been thinking about making my own E6 chemicals, due to constant supply issues with Tetenal Colortec kits, which are basicly the only kits available where I live. I got quite a lot of CD3 for a very reasonable price (to make my own ECN2 developer), so I figured it's not a big deal to go a little bit further and start my own E6. Having read the Stefan Lange's formula, I think the only ingredients I lack are HQMS and Citrazinic Acid. Since they are quite expensive at Suvatlar's, I'd like to try getting them from a supplier located in China (I did that with my CD3 and it was cheap, easy and fast). I would really love to not mix things up when ordering, so can anyone assure me - what is the CAS number of HQMS? is it CAS 21799-87-1?

Yes it's 21799-87-1. know it because I bought and use it.
The price I bought is 90+usds/kg it's expensive because I bought very few.

And also difficulty about this patent is you need to monitor the PH(Fortunately Kodak gave it to you in the patent)very carefully.

I think kodak may confirmed factors' weight by spectrograph,which makes you have deviation even you use 1/10000 scale.

 

[lamerko]

Yes it's 21799-87-1. know it because I bought and use it.
The price I bought is 90+usds/kg it's expensive because I bought very few.

And also difficulty about this patent is you need to monitor the PH(Fortunately Kodak gave it to you in the patent)very carefully.

I think kodak may confirmed factors' weight by spectrograph,which makes you have deviation even you use 1/10000 scale.

Where exactly did you buy it from? Because I can't find anything on Alibaba. I'm fine with the price, but should be able to ship to Europe...

 

[czygeorge]

Where exactly did you buy it from? Because I can't find anything on Alibaba. I'm fine with the price, but should be able to ship to Europe...

I'm asking the agent of that chemistry factory's email

 

[czygeorge]

Where exactly did you buy it from? Because I can't find anything on Alibaba. I'm fine with the price, but should be able to ship to Europe...

1013968128@qq.com

 

[lamerko]

1013968128@qq.com

Thanks for the contact. I will contact them later