Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[Europan]

Film Ferrania has a few viable base products. P 30 for example. They could, in addition, make a simple unsensitized positive film and offer it in all those conversions the other film manufacturers don’t. We have Kodak X302 and ORWO PF 2 both in 35 and 16 and that’s it. Film Ferrania could take over the 9.5 mm market by a single blow, they have the slitters and perforators. Spools, cores, black bags, and cans, so easy. Publicity, one field to them. Positive stock can also be used for making contact slides from still negatives. If Film Ferrania offered 16-mm. films perforated both edges, they certainly had their customers. A panchromatic and a blue-sensitive emulsion are parts of a trichrome film anyway. That’s how Kodachrome came into being after the soot-gelatine backing was put into use since February 1931.

To find a void on the announced Kodak Super-8 camera is still more disappointing. Three and a half years . . .

 

[Agulliver]

Re the website. I'm part of a team of seven volunteers who run conferences. Our website is managed by a professional web designer who puts in his time free of charge because he's a friend and because he backs what we're doing. It most certainly is NOT a matter of a few minutes to change things, eg if we were to put a heartbeat on the home page and say "we're cooking up the next event" that would take him minimum two hours.....two hours where he's not earning squat and not working on his actual job...and that is an absolute minimum. Yes, he's using up to date web design software. A significant update (eg, new event announced along with draft schedule) usually takes him a weekend. A weekend when he's not interacting with his partner or family.

Think about the Film Ferrania people. They're not paying themselves much to do this. Their core tasks are getting all the machinery running, getting the building working to suit their needs....taking a few hours out to revamp the home page when they've already said they will communicate when they have something to say is pointless. So would be paying to have someone else do it, especially if their actual hourly rate is anything like that of my friend.

On paper, yes it looks like they could corner the market in things like 9.5mm film and 127 film at a reasonable price. I assume that the Film Ferrania people know this. Though it may be drowned out in the shouts of "I demand 7.63 x Pi inch sheet film at 2ASA and instructions on how to develop it in sea-water with 1 part in 10 shampoo". or "I tried P30, didn't follow any of your instructions. WHY didn't it come out well when I stand developed it for 5 weeks in petrol?" (yes, sarcasm).

However, for all my optimism....I do suspect that the next couple of communications from Film Ferrania will be important. They must be approaching make or break time. P30 itself is viable and personally I like it. I'd love colour reversal super 8 and std 8mm film cheaper than Ektachrome but I'll wait as I do understand that is far more complex.

Regarding Kickstarter, their terms and conditions were quite clear before. If people don't read them and then squawk "where's my stuff" I genuinely have no sympathy.

 

[Burninfilm]

Not saying they need to revamp anything on their web page. Just get rid of the "Re-opening in early 2019" nonsense. This is not a bunch of volunteers trying to run a charity in their spare time... they are trying to start a company and compete with Kodak, Ilford, ADOX, etc. Therefore a bit more professionalism may be prudent... even if it takes a few minutes, a few hours, or whatever of updating their webpage.

Just like Kickstarter backers should be able to accept if their "investment" results in nothing, the groups that take in Kickstarter money shouldn't be too surprised when their backers get impatient when nothing is getting delivered... and when updates don't come around very often...

It goes both ways.

 

[CMoore]

My apologies, but i could never really follow this thread.....
Could ask a couple of questions.?
Just generally speaking -

1. What films had Ferrannia hoped to be producing by now.?

2. Is it mostly the emulsion(s) that are still giving them trouble.?
thank you

 

[cmacd123]

My apologies, but i could never really follow this thread.....

1. What films had Ferrannia hoped to be producing by now.?

original film mentioned was a clone of "Scotch Chrome 100" an ASA 100 colour transparency film.
what they have produced and sold are limited quantities of Ferrania P-30 an ASA 80 B&W film based on the negative stock used by several Italian Cinematographers.

2. Is it mostly the emulsion(s) that are still giving them trouble.?
thank you

the pilot production of P30 revealed that much of the building they were in needed changes to ensure a quality product could be produced, the project produced much unsalable film.

they SAID that they will not come out in public until they have a workflow set up and tested to at least produce P30 in both 35mm and size 120.

 

[CMoore]

I see..... Thank You

 

[railwayman3]

Not saying they need to revamp anything on their web page. Just get rid of the "Re-opening in early 2019" nonsense. This is not a bunch of volunteers trying to run a charity in their spare time... they are trying to start a company and compete with Kodak, Ilford, ADOX, etc. Therefore a bit more professionalism may be prudent... even if it takes a few minutes, a few hours, or whatever of updating their webpage.

Just like Kickstarter backers should be able to accept if their "investment" results in nothing, the groups that take in Kickstarter money shouldn't be too surprised when their backers get impatient when nothing is getting delivered... and when updates don't come around very often...

It goes both ways.

+ 1 (And I'm a little bit surprised at the supposed difficulties in updating web pages suggested by Agulliver ? I belong to a small voluntary group, where the website is run by one person with no special computer skills or qualifications, using free software, and there are invariably one or two updates each week, together with an active forum and a monthly illustrated section of new items relating to the group's interest ? )

 

[Agulliver]

+ 1 (And I'm a little bit surprised at the supposed difficulties in updating web pages suggested by Agulliver ? I belong to a small voluntary group, where the website is run by one person with no special computer skills or qualifications, using free software, and there are invariably one or two updates each week, together with an active forum and a monthly illustrated section of new items relating to the group's interest ? )

Possible with a free "off the peg" solution. We don't use that, we have a volunteer who's a professional web designer. If you want a generic off the peg solution and are literally just changing some text it may well be possible to achieve this quickly. Looking at Film Ferrania's site, the text "Returning Eearly 2019" is not contained in the HTML code for that specific page. That suggests to me that it's part of some more complex script which is embedded in the code somewhere and may well not be a matter of moments to change - though it may well be a matter of under an hour.

The real question is....do Film Ferrania have someone on staff who does their web design or do they pay someone every time they change it? And would updating the page really be a good use of their limited resources?

As I understand it, the original plan was that they'd have a window of time in which they could use the last batch of extant chemicals etc. to produce a run of Ferrania Chrome (Scotch Chrome 100). This of course was before Kodak reintroduced Ektachrome and when there was fear that Fuji might pull it's chrome films. Ferrania planned to produce this in 135, super 8 and 16mm. However due to unforeseen problems with the building and the Italian government shutting off the power supply that small window of opportunity passed. Hence P30 Alpha was the first film they actually coated. Though I thought the problems which lead to some P30 being rejected was as much to do with the company they engaged to do the finishing processes as the Ferrania building and facilities. Ergo they took the decision not to offer any more film for sale until they can get their finishing machinery fully working and go from raw materials to complete, packaged product under their own roof - without relying on another company to do the finishing/converting. Then the Italian governmen did more work on the building which may ultimately be positive (ie improvements) but it meant the Ferrania people couldn't actually do anything much.

As they had a history of saying "We think we'll be in a position to sell film on Date X" so many times only to find the government shut down the building or cut off the power or built a highway through the campus.....they're not making further predictions....which is understandable. Though you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

 

[railwayman3]

Possible with a free "off the peg" solution. We don't use that, we have a volunteer who's a professional web designer. If you want a generic off the peg solution and are literally just changing some text it may well be possible to achieve this quickly. Looking at Film Ferrania's site, the text "Returning Eearly 2019" is not contained in the HTML code for that specific page. That suggests to me that it's part of some more complex script which is embedded in the code somewhere and may well not be a matter of moments to change - though it may well be a matter of under an hour.

The real question is....do Film Ferrania have someone on staff who does their web design or do they pay someone every time they change it? And would updating the page really be a good use of their limited resources?

Maybe, as my old boss said years ago, "if it works well, the simplest solution is often the best!".

 

[MattKing]

If you are willing to shoehorn your needs into an off-the-shelf website template you can certainly choose one that can be self maintained.
I have two different, partially completed attempts at making a website for my photography. Every time I think I've got something worthwhile, I run into some sort of limitation inherent in the template that makes it difficult to do what I want to do.
I expect that if I was willing to throw money at the problem, or devote a significant amount of time and effort to learn the necessary programming skills, or both, I would be able to solve my problems.

 

[twelvetone12]

Guys come on, changing the text on the shop page takes more or less 30 seconds. It is more complicated to type in the password to login than to do that.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Seems that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. People complain about everything these days.

I am looking forward to trying whatever they produce. If that is P30 then I'll give that a go.

 

[mshchem]

Guys come on, changing the text on the shop page takes more or less 30 seconds. It is more complicated to type in the password to login than to do that.

That wouldn't be enough. Let them work on real problems.

 

[Agulliver]

Guys come on, changing the text on the shop page takes more or less 30 seconds. It is more complicated to type in the password to login than to do that.

As I said, if you examine the HTML code for that page the text isn't there....so it's scripted elsewhere and may well not be a matter of 30 seconds. It may well also be the case that the web master for the Film Ferrania site is not one of the people working at the LRF, ie not one of the Film Ferrania team themselves. They have far bigger fish to fry than worrying about a few forum posters who are upset that a date hasn't been changed. They've also said that they will communicate when there's something substantial to say.

 

[twelvetone12]

They use squarespace, there is no need to edit html directly. And sincerely, if they are frying their fish with the care that they invest into basic communication, la frittura sarà davvero pesante, as I would say in italian.

 

[cmacd123]

I guess Dave Heard, they posted "A very short update with some random scenes from the factory at the beginning of July." on facebook. seems to show the water filtration and Boiler and also some people looking at a coating test. Hopefull they will chime in.

(post is Pinned on the page at https://www.facebook.com/filmferrania/ for those who do facebook.)

as posted on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1150822525976436752

 

[alanrockwood]

I guess my question is this: Has Ferrania pretty much abandoned plans to produce an E6 product?

 

[faberryman]

Who can say what their plans are. The last posted video was of an employee lapping a part for one of their machines, so presumably they are trying to get something up and running. I don't think the film world is really clamoring for another black and white emulsion, but who knows, maybe it will be wildly successful, and give Kodak, Ilford, Fuji, Foma, Adox, etc. a run for their money.

 

[twelvetone12]

Apparently yes, but if you dare to ask then you are an "angry forum poster".

 

[Kino]

Only if you ask repeatedly and in spite of many explanations...

 

[Agulliver]

As they have stated many, many times.....the initial window to produce E6 from the last remaining lot of chemicals and raw materials was lost.....but the long term goal is still to produce E6 film. And B&W film. And C41 film.

And for the last time, the text about the shop isn't in the HTML code of that page so it's scripted and coming from elsewhere. It's not a matter of simply replacing that text in the code for the relevant page *because it is not in the source for that page*.

Yes I am tired and grumpy. But having to repeat things multiple times is tiring. Probably why Dave Bias doesn't post here any more.

 

[Agulliver]

Wow I was grumpy last night!

 

[Europan]

Let me repeat: I shall buy Ferraniachrome rather than Ektachrome as long as it’s cheaper, regardless of colour rendition. Rochester doesn’t even offer 16mm Ektachrome perforated both edges although it was the Eastman-Kodak Company that had introduced the 16mm film format, that sold the Ciné-Kodak Special camera which is designed to laterally guide 2R stock by cone-head pins in the film canal, and that had introduced the Double-Eight film system.

 

[foc]

I don't wish to be negative (no pun) about our friends at Ferrania but after watching the Ilford factory video and then watching the videos from Ferrania........ well..............





http://www.filmferrania.it/news-articles/2019/the-workshop

 

[Nzoomed]

I don't wish to be negative (no pun) about our friends at Ferrania but after watching the Ilford factory video and then watching the videos from Ferrania........ well..............





http://www.filmferrania.it/news-articles/2019/the-workshop

I dont think you can even compare the two.
Ferrania is currently restarting a decommissioned factory that had been sitting unused for the best part of a decade, while what you see with Ilford is a company that has always been producing film, albeit B&W only.
I wonder what kind of workshop Ilford even has for working on tooling, or do they subcontract all that out to a group of engineers?