Yes difficult film, if that is what it is( I don't know as I have never tried it) , will always be a challenge for enthusiasts here on Photrio and other forums and overcoming any difficulties associated with such film will produce a level of satisfaction but frankly those enthusiasts who wish to "master" a film and any foibles it may have and are prepared to spend time and money so doing are in the minority and as I see things will never be a big enough group to make the film viable.
pentaxuser
You may be right but I fear that to make this film viable i.e. able to be shot and processed as faultlessly as say HP5+ or Tri-X or TMY by the vast majority of users may require more work. As I said it may appeal to those who treat films as a challenge and quite enjoy such challenges but I doubt if they are a big enough market to make P30 viable as things standUsing this film is really not so difficult, but probably only suited to certain lighting conditions. Most people wouldn't use P3200 for everything, or Velvia 50 either, but when you want what those films have to offer they're there. I didn't shoot enough P30 to really understand it but I did get printable negatives and will try it again when it's available.
Is the film viable? We'll see. I think so.
You may be right but I fear that to make this film viable i.e. able to be shot and processed as faultlessly as say HP5+ or Tri-X or TMY by the vast majority of users may require more work. As I said it may appeal to those who treat films as a challenge and quite enjoy such challenges but I doubt if they are a big enough market to make P30 viable as things stand
pentaxuser
The real problem in 2012 was that while there was demand, it didn't come close to what constituted economic supply.
If there are 10,000 customers clamouring for product, but the smallest quantity you can economically produce is enough to meet the needs of 40,000 customers, you cannot afford to satisfy the 10,000 customers that want the product.
At its heyday, Building 38 was making enough Kodak still print film each day to create 3.4 million rolls of film. Its production facilities for that film, as well as all the other films manufactured by it, were scaled accordingly.
I see. So maybe the thin negatives some users got have to do with other factors like water hardness for example. Is it known whether the use of purified water or maybe pre-soak can help to reduce this problem?
It is refreshing to know, since I have extremely different results with this film, but when I asked here on the forum people jumped at my throat saying that this is what I should expect when I disregard the best practices and use beer to develop the film (spoiler: I did not).
Going forward, we've decided to print a code on every box that will show the creation date and batch number. This will obviously help to track any inconsistencies or outright defects so the cause can be chased down more efficiently.
Thanks for all your replies Dave,
Is there any chance we will see another update or video? Im not worried about asking when film will be ready, but rather like to see what progress has been made and work thats being done in the LFR.
For example, i was quite interested with the clip we saw with the ring coaters, etc.
The short answer is yes, updates will continue. As best we can.
It has proven quite difficult to SHOW what is happening for a variety of reasons:
- There was no initial video documentation of the building, so any sort of "before/after" video that shows changes is impossible.
- Also, walking around the building, it would often be difficult to know anything is happening because almost none of our equipment actually does anything visibly. (It does make noises, as you see in the video we posted on July 15 - but that's it...)
- Also, our cameraman (and editor, usually) is Nicola himself and to be fair, he often has much more mission-critical stuff to deal with when he's at the factory.
- Also, when the team is working, they are working and it's really best not to disrupt them
That said, I'm constantly lobbying for the next update and the next and the next.
It would also silence doubters like myself.
Any and everyone who has read every entry in this thread from the beginning understands that absolutely nothing will silence the doubters. And no one gains anything from them wasting any additional time trying to “silence doubters.” It’s obviously not only impossible, it’s pointless. If they eventually make film, then those who want it can buy it. If they don’t ever make any film then that’s that. Either way, “show us a movie of people walking around in a building” produces no useful data, it only satisfies (and only satisfies for a short period of time) the idle curiosity of people out here in kibitzing land who have nothing productive to do.
This is most certainly how many people interpreted the video and text of our campaign.
But that is not, in fact, what we said in the campaign - nor why we did the Kickstarter in the first place.
We tried to make it clear that the purchase of the equipment and the production of a batch of chrome film were completely separate things.
One did not rely on the other. One was not the product of the other.
I certainly failed to make this distinction 100% clear to every one of our 5500+ Backers.
Maybe someone else could have done better? Probably.
But that someone didn't step up when the opportunity arose, so everybody got stuck with me.
Any and everyone who has read every entry in this thread from the beginning understands that absolutely nothing will silence the doubters. And no one gains anything from them wasting any additional time trying to “silence doubters.” It’s obviously not only impossible, it’s pointless. If they eventually make film, then those who want it can buy it. If they don’t ever make any film then that’s that. Either way, “show us a movie of people walking around in a building” produces no useful data, it only satisfies (and only satisfies for a short period of time) the idle curiosity of people out here in kibitzing land who have nothing productive to do.
Any and everyone who has read every entry in this thread from the beginning understands that absolutely nothing will silence the doubters. And no one gains anything from them wasting any additional time trying to “silence doubters.” It’s obviously not only impossible, it’s pointless. If they eventually make film, then those who want it can buy it. If they don’t ever make any film then that’s that. Either way, “show us a movie of people walking around in a building” produces no useful data, it only satisfies (and only satisfies for a short period of time) the idle curiosity of people out here in kibitzing land who have nothing productive to do.
seems to me I did get some postcards and had a smile, and put them in a safe place. you know that sort of safe place where things magically are found many months later. althopugh perhaps those were an addon when I orders the first batch of film and a tote bag..Yes. There will be people complaining about not getting their Kickstarter reward of two rolls of film and novelty stickers until the sun burns out no matter what Ferrania does.
Also got a discount on P30.seems to me I did get some postcards and had a smile, and put them in a safe place. you know that sort of safe place where things magically are found many months later. althopugh perhaps those were an addon when I orders the first batch of film and a tote bag..
yes, although since only small item counts were available, the shipping to Canada ate that up. which in the scheme of things was perhaps better in the long run, if David says that most of the first batches never left the building - they much have lost a lot of money on each roll that did ship.Also got a discount on P30.
Thanks for the update but I find it difficult to understand some of your points regarding showing video.
-There was no initial video documentation of the building, so any sort of "before/after" video that shows changes is impossible.
I know what's done is done but it seems very remiss of you NOT to have documented this. It would have been the first thing I would though of at the begining.
- Also, walking around the building, it would often be difficult to know anything is happening because almost none of our equipment actually does anything visibly. (It does make noises, as you see in the video we posted on July 15 - but that's it...)
I am sure with a little imagination, you could show what is happening. Have a look at the Ilford factory video for inspiration.
- Also, our cameraman (and editor, usually) is Nicola himself and to be fair, he often has much more mission-critical stuff to deal with when he's at the factory
Why not have a photography student take the video, or someone else. It can't be that hard to find someone to do it.
- Also, when the team is working, they are working and it's really best not to disrupt them
Very true BUT for the sake of transparency and communication take 1 hour out of the working time to record a video, by the person above. It would help a huge amount by showing your commitment to bringing film to the market. It would also silence doubters like myself.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?