Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[warden]

Yes difficult film, if that is what it is( I don't know as I have never tried it) , will always be a challenge for enthusiasts here on Photrio and other forums and overcoming any difficulties associated with such film will produce a level of satisfaction but frankly those enthusiasts who wish to "master" a film and any foibles it may have and are prepared to spend time and money so doing are in the minority and as I see things will never be a big enough group to make the film viable.

pentaxuser

Using this film is really not so difficult, but probably only suited to certain lighting conditions. Most people wouldn't use P3200 for everything, or Velvia 50 either, but when you want what those films have to offer they're there. I didn't shoot enough P30 to really understand it but I did get printable negatives and will try it again when it's available.

Is the film viable? We'll see. I think so.

 

[pentaxuser]

Using this film is really not so difficult, but probably only suited to certain lighting conditions. Most people wouldn't use P3200 for everything, or Velvia 50 either, but when you want what those films have to offer they're there. I didn't shoot enough P30 to really understand it but I did get printable negatives and will try it again when it's available.

Is the film viable? We'll see. I think so.

You may be right but I fear that to make this film viable i.e. able to be shot and processed as faultlessly as say HP5+ or Tri-X or TMY by the vast majority of users may require more work. As I said it may appeal to those who treat films as a challenge and quite enjoy such challenges but I doubt if they are a big enough market to make P30 viable as things stand

pentaxuser

 

[cmacd123]

I suspect that part of the charm of P30 is that it has an exceptionally long range, but is a touch quirky. (I say that in a good way) .
it is a film that more or less works best with the recommended processing. AND needs accurate exposure.

the folks who RUN the new factory were inspired by the movies produced by Italian Directors using the older versions of P30 and so used right on the righ subject it is wonderful. BUT yes, I am going out for a walk, unless I have a subject in mind, I might grab another film.

I actually do have a few more things that I want to try with it, but I have gone through more than half of what I was able to buy just in testing.

 

[warden]

You may be right but I fear that to make this film viable i.e. able to be shot and processed as faultlessly as say HP5+ or Tri-X or TMY by the vast majority of users may require more work. As I said it may appeal to those who treat films as a challenge and quite enjoy such challenges but I doubt if they are a big enough market to make P30 viable as things stand

pentaxuser

Some people expose Velvia with the utmost care and work hard to know precisely what they'll get from the film. And others use Velvia more loosely, develop in c-41 and use other techniques to inject their own brand of fun and unpredictability in the process. The common thread between the two is they both buy the film which (so far) makes it viable.

I suppose the customer base for P30 will be similarly split between those interested in working to nail down a process to get exactly what they want on one side, and those with a different and perhaps freer aesthetic on the other side (like the Lomo crowd). Are those two populations enough to make P30 viable? We'll see. I think so.

 

[Nzoomed]

Thanks for all your replies Dave,
Is there any chance we will see another update or video? Im not worried about asking when film will be ready, but rather like to see what progress has been made and work thats being done in the LFR.
For example, i was quite interested with the clip we saw with the ring coaters, etc.

 

[Harry Callahan]

The real problem in 2012 was that while there was demand, it didn't come close to what constituted economic supply.
If there are 10,000 customers clamouring for product, but the smallest quantity you can economically produce is enough to meet the needs of 40,000 customers, you cannot afford to satisfy the 10,000 customers that want the product.
At its heyday, Building 38 was making enough Kodak still print film each day to create 3.4 million rolls of film. Its production facilities for that film, as well as all the other films manufactured by it, were scaled accordingly.

I see. This should explain why it took Kodak so long to bring back Ektachrome.

 

[Agulliver]

I only bought two rolls of P30...I shot one at 80ASA and one at 50ASA....both produced negatives which both scanned and printed well. Though I did prefer the roll shot at 50ASA. It's a lovely film with a unique look and almost undetectable grain in 135....in 120 and 127 its going to look gorgeous.

As for 127, I would probably buy 2-4 rolls a year to feed my Ferrania Tanit and my Bencini.....though if I get old of a Baby Rollei that would change. I'd just be glad to have factory made 127 film hopefully at less than £15 a roll.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I see. So maybe the thin negatives some users got have to do with other factors like water hardness for example. Is it known whether the use of purified water or maybe pre-soak can help to reduce this problem?

In all of our testing of P30 Alpha, both formally and otherwise - and acknowledging that we do not yet have a proper QA setup beyond some basic tools - it was very difficult to pinpoint exactly what issues may be present in any specific coating.

Back in mid-2017, the issues regarding obvious coating defects and the huge waste problem very much obscured a number of finer details that have been addressed since - most of which had to do with maintaining consistency from coating to coating.

Going forward, we've decided to print a code on every box that will show the creation date and batch number. This will obviously help to track any inconsistencies or outright defects so the cause can be chased down more efficiently.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

It is refreshing to know, since I have extremely different results with this film, but when I asked here on the forum people jumped at my throat saying that this is what I should expect when I disregard the best practices and use beer to develop the film (spoiler: I did not).

The latest news from Italy is that the final P30 film will remain "high maintenance" regarding both exposure and development. All signs point to our existing Best Practice holding true for the new stuff.
That said, we are seeing better results from those same procedures - still very strong contrast but less crushing of blacks and more consistency overall from roll to roll.
Also, a few people in 2017 had issues with reds not rendering properly. That was tracked down and fixed this past spring (worn-out pump somewhere in the process...)

 

[cmacd123]

Going forward, we've decided to print a code on every box that will show the creation date and batch number. This will obviously help to track any inconsistencies or outright defects so the cause can be chased down more efficiently.

I was surprised actually that the film itself did not have a code or batch number in the edge printing but I figured that that was just a side effect of it being an alpha product. Most other film does have at least a batch number on the edge. Kodak seems to have a serial number for every roll which is way too detailed. even a number on the box would help reporting or asking for assistance.

really happy to hear that the testing is going well.

 

[Harry Callahan]

@Dave Bias:

Thank you very much for the answer - and also glad to hear that you´re able to make progress!

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Thanks for all your replies Dave,
Is there any chance we will see another update or video? Im not worried about asking when film will be ready, but rather like to see what progress has been made and work thats being done in the LFR.
For example, i was quite interested with the clip we saw with the ring coaters, etc.

The short answer is yes, updates will continue. As best we can.

It has proven quite difficult to SHOW what is happening for a variety of reasons:
- There was no initial video documentation of the building, so any sort of "before/after" video that shows changes is impossible.
- Also, walking around the building, it would often be difficult to know anything is happening because almost none of our equipment actually does anything visibly. (It does make noises, as you see in the video we posted on July 15 - but that's it...)
- Also, our cameraman (and editor, usually) is Nicola himself and to be fair, he often has much more mission-critical stuff to deal with when he's at the factory.
- Also, when the team is working, they are working and it's really best not to disrupt them

That said, I'm constantly lobbying for the next update and the next and the next.

 

[foc]

The short answer is yes, updates will continue. As best we can.

It has proven quite difficult to SHOW what is happening for a variety of reasons:
- There was no initial video documentation of the building, so any sort of "before/after" video that shows changes is impossible.
- Also, walking around the building, it would often be difficult to know anything is happening because almost none of our equipment actually does anything visibly. (It does make noises, as you see in the video we posted on July 15 - but that's it...)
- Also, our cameraman (and editor, usually) is Nicola himself and to be fair, he often has much more mission-critical stuff to deal with when he's at the factory.
- Also, when the team is working, they are working and it's really best not to disrupt them

That said, I'm constantly lobbying for the next update and the next and the next.

Thanks for the update but I find it difficult to understand some of your points regarding showing video.
-There was no initial video documentation of the building, so any sort of "before/after" video that shows changes is impossible.
I know what's done is done but it seems very remiss of you NOT to have documented this. It would have been the first thing I would though of at the begining.

- Also, walking around the building, it would often be difficult to know anything is happening because almost none of our equipment actually does anything visibly. (It does make noises, as you see in the video we posted on July 15 - but that's it...)
I am sure with a little imagination, you could show what is happening. Have a look at the Ilford factory video for inspiration.

- Also, our cameraman (and editor, usually) is Nicola himself and to be fair, he often has much more mission-critical stuff to deal with when he's at the factory
Why not have a photography student take the video, or someone else. It can't be that hard to find someone to do it.

- Also, when the team is working, they are working and it's really best not to disrupt them
Very true BUT for the sake of transparency and communication take 1 hour out of the working time to record a video, by the person above. It would help a huge amount by showing your commitment to bringing film to the market. It would also silence doubters like myself.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

It would also silence doubters like myself.

Any and everyone who has read every entry in this thread from the beginning understands that absolutely nothing will silence the doubters. And no one gains anything from them wasting any additional time trying to “silence doubters.” It’s obviously not only impossible, it’s pointless. If they eventually make film, then those who want it can buy it. If they don’t ever make any film then that’s that. Either way, “show us a movie of people walking around in a building” produces no useful data, it only satisfies (and only satisfies for a short period of time) the idle curiosity of people out here in kibitzing land who have nothing productive to do.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Any and everyone who has read every entry in this thread from the beginning understands that absolutely nothing will silence the doubters. And no one gains anything from them wasting any additional time trying to “silence doubters.” It’s obviously not only impossible, it’s pointless. If they eventually make film, then those who want it can buy it. If they don’t ever make any film then that’s that. Either way, “show us a movie of people walking around in a building” produces no useful data, it only satisfies (and only satisfies for a short period of time) the idle curiosity of people out here in kibitzing land who have nothing productive to do.

+1

 

[Agulliver]

Ferrania /= Ilford/Harman. Different scale altogether.

Why would they have spent time documenting the LRF when they needed every second they had to turn what was a derelict research building into a film factory. At that point in time they believed they were rushing towards making that one window they had to manufacture one last lot of Chrome film. Dave is almost certainly right when he says there's not much to see...and the only person who could even make a video about life at the LRF is Nicola who's one of the key engineers working on restarting film production.

+1 on nothing silencing the doubters until film rolls off the production line....and even then some will claim it's made by Harman or something....probably rebadged Kentmere....

 

[faberryman]

Something must be up. Film Ferrania is posting again after months of silence. Maybe they were concerned with the fall off in interest in this thread. If Film Ferrania does get into production, I hope that the yea sayers buy a lot of film from them, and not just a few rolls out of curiosity. Having a bunch of cheerleaders with their wallets in their pockets isn't really all that helpful.

 

[Agulliver]

P30 will certainly find a place in my film bag in 135 and 120....127 to a lesser extent when it's available. If they produce std 8 or super 8 cine film I'm likely to be buying some too, how much depends on cost. If they produce E6 135 I'll at least try it. If they produce 800ISO or faster C41 or B&W film I'll be a customer too.

 

[Pioneer]

This is most certainly how many people interpreted the video and text of our campaign.
But that is not, in fact, what we said in the campaign - nor why we did the Kickstarter in the first place.

We tried to make it clear that the purchase of the equipment and the production of a batch of chrome film were completely separate things.
One did not rely on the other. One was not the product of the other.

I certainly failed to make this distinction 100% clear to every one of our 5500+ Backers.
Maybe someone else could have done better? Probably.
But that someone didn't step up when the opportunity arose, so everybody got stuck with me.

Thank you very for taking time out of your busy schedule to respond to my petty gripe. I do appreciate it.

I wish you luck and hope everything works out well.

 

[warden]

Any and everyone who has read every entry in this thread from the beginning understands that absolutely nothing will silence the doubters. And no one gains anything from them wasting any additional time trying to “silence doubters.” It’s obviously not only impossible, it’s pointless. If they eventually make film, then those who want it can buy it. If they don’t ever make any film then that’s that. Either way, “show us a movie of people walking around in a building” produces no useful data, it only satisfies (and only satisfies for a short period of time) the idle curiosity of people out here in kibitzing land who have nothing productive to do.

Yes. There will be people complaining about not getting their Kickstarter reward of two rolls of film and novelty stickers until the sun burns out no matter what Ferrania does. It's just the way it is.

And when the film is (finally!) commercialized we'll hear it's too late, too expensive, in the wrong size, too hard to use, and by the way where are my stickers?

 

[foc]

Any and everyone who has read every entry in this thread from the beginning understands that absolutely nothing will silence the doubters. And no one gains anything from them wasting any additional time trying to “silence doubters.” It’s obviously not only impossible, it’s pointless. If they eventually make film, then those who want it can buy it. If they don’t ever make any film then that’s that. Either way, “show us a movie of people walking around in a building” produces no useful data, it only satisfies (and only satisfies for a short period of time) the idle curiosity of people out here in kibitzing land who have nothing productive to do.

So it a case of
For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.

 

[cmacd123]

Yes. There will be people complaining about not getting their Kickstarter reward of two rolls of film and novelty stickers until the sun burns out no matter what Ferrania does.

seems to me I did get some postcards and had a smile, and put them in a safe place. you know that sort of safe place where things magically are found many months later. althopugh perhaps those were an addon when I orders the first batch of film and a tote bag..

 

[BAC1967]

seems to me I did get some postcards and had a smile, and put them in a safe place. you know that sort of safe place where things magically are found many months later. althopugh perhaps those were an addon when I orders the first batch of film and a tote bag..

Also got a discount on P30.

 

[cmacd123]

Also got a discount on P30.

yes, although since only small item counts were available, the shipping to Canada ate that up. which in the scheme of things was perhaps better in the long run, if David says that most of the first batches never left the building - they much have lost a lot of money on each roll that did ship.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Thanks for the update but I find it difficult to understand some of your points regarding showing video.
-There was no initial video documentation of the building, so any sort of "before/after" video that shows changes is impossible.
I know what's done is done but it seems very remiss of you NOT to have documented this. It would have been the first thing I would though of at the begining.

- Also, walking around the building, it would often be difficult to know anything is happening because almost none of our equipment actually does anything visibly. (It does make noises, as you see in the video we posted on July 15 - but that's it...)
I am sure with a little imagination, you could show what is happening. Have a look at the Ilford factory video for inspiration.

- Also, our cameraman (and editor, usually) is Nicola himself and to be fair, he often has much more mission-critical stuff to deal with when he's at the factory
Why not have a photography student take the video, or someone else. It can't be that hard to find someone to do it.

- Also, when the team is working, they are working and it's really best not to disrupt them
Very true BUT for the sake of transparency and communication take 1 hour out of the working time to record a video, by the person above. It would help a huge amount by showing your commitment to bringing film to the market. It would also silence doubters like myself.

One problem about this should be that the building is owned by the italian government. One point of the building refurbishment was to get a fence around it so no unauthorzied person is able to get into the building because there are chemicals inside etc. - its about safety regulations.
If now a photography student wanted to get in for some video-update, he probably needed approval of the government. And as the government has invested a lot of money in the building, they likely won´t let everybody in.
Even if, the person had to know about producing film so he doesn´t break anything by accident or injures himself, i also mean by chemicals. He´d be in the way of the workers and would be asking all the time: What´s this, what´s that? Is this important, what does it do, where have you made progress and so on. He of course had to know the italian language.
As they only have very limited resources, even laying work down for an hour should create delay - if an hour would suffice for a video shooting, which i heavily doubt. I mean they have a lot of rooms inside this building, an hour probably would not suffice just to take a walk around.