Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[Agulliver]

Shoot video for an hour, spend three hours editing it....

I got my postcards, and will be happy to buy the film when it is on sale. I know it's not going to be bargain priced, but likely no film will be going forward into the future.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Shoot video for an hour, spend three hours editing it....

...

Yes, editing... and even then the photography student still would interrupt work in the factory. Because while editing he would call them at the factory multiple times like: "Ok, i´m just editing the shot from this big machine, you know, in that room with the green doors, what can you tell me about it? Is it important, what does it do, did you make progress on that, i just forgott what it does and i can´t find the footage where you did explain what´s it for - or - i don´t understand your explanation i took a shoot of etc. ".

So even if the government let him in, even if he did not brake anything or injure himself, even if he did not delay work for more than an hour while being there, he´d still be interrupting them a lot before the video was finnished - unless he´s an expert for analog film production and knows exactly what´s what.

I mean i get the idea that a short video-update shouldn´t take too much time/work to do, but under this circumstances it wouldn´t be like that.

 

[cmacd123]

I mean i get the idea that a short video-update shouldn´t take too much time/work to do, but under this circumstances it wouldn´t be like that.

lets face it the workers almost all have Italian as their first language. Just pausing enough to find the right English word to describe something may very well interrupt the train of thought. (and as English is the second language in many countries just having an explanation in Italian might not reach as many people.) (or course Dave Bias might want to try that and just say "Translation Later" to see what the reaction is)

 

[foc]

Yes, editing... and even then the photography student still would interrupt work in the factory. Because while editing he would call them at the factory multiple times like: "Ok, i´m just editing the shot from this big machine, you know, in that room with the green doors, what can you tell me about it? Is it important, what does it do, did you make progress on that, i just forgott what it does and i can´t find the footage where you did explain what´s it for - or - i don´t understand your explanation i took a shoot of etc. ".

So even if the government let him in, even if he did not brake anything or injure himself, even if he did not delay work for more than an hour while being there, he´d still be interrupting them a lot before the video was finnished - unless he´s an expert for analog film production and knows exactly what´s what.

I mean i get the idea that a short video-update shouldn´t take too much time/work to do, but under this circumstances it wouldn´t be like that.

and

lets face it the workers almost all have Italian as their first language. Just pausing enough to find the right English word to describe something may very well interrupt the train of thought. (and as English is the second language in many countries just having an explanation in Italian might not reach as many people.) (or course Dave Bias might want to try that and just say "Translation Later" to see what the reaction is)

I think the point I made is being over thought , in fact the minute detail of the replies reminds me of the detailed discussion earlier about the website updates and how it was HTML or wasn't , how it would take hours or just minutes to make changes.

If you can't see the bigger picture, about why I made that particular post (and previous posts) and about why I said I had lost faith in this whole project, then I won't go any further as I appear to be talking to the wind.

I am not out to disrespect or belittle Ferrania or their efforts to product film. I welcome any new development.

But I do question (which is my prerogative) why it has taken so long and no proper communication has taken place.

IMO posting the videos posted don't show commitment to producing a film (but then what would I know).

As I said earlier it appears to be a case of "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible".

 

[warden]

As I said earlier it appears to be a case of "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible".

I don't think your false dichotomy is appropriate in this case. People in this thread and others are expressing optimism paired with frustration, and pessimism paired with hopefulness, and a range of opinions in between. There are "believers" who want more information, and "non-believers" patiently waiting.

 

[Pioneer]

And those who are in both camps.

I believe that Ferrania will succeed in getting into production with their black and white film, a difficult undertaking for sure.

With that said, I don't believe that we will ever see that color slide film with such a beautiful palette in production. Being able to coat that film is an entire order of difficulty beyond what they are having difficulty with right now. Even Kodak, with all their expertise, ran into several unforseen roadblocks bringing Ektachrome back to life, and that film had only been discontinued for 5 years before they decided to begin coating it again.

I hope they prove me wrong.

 

[Harry Callahan]

and


I think the point I made is being over thought , in fact the minute detail of the replies reminds me of the detailed discussion earlier about the website updates and how it was HTML or wasn't , how it would take hours or just minutes to make changes.

If you can't see the bigger picture, about why I made that particular post (and previous posts) and about why I said I had lost faith in this whole project, then I won't go any further as I appear to be talking to the wind.

I am not out to disrespect or belittle Ferrania or their efforts to product film. I welcome any new development.

But I do question (which is my prerogative) why it has taken so long and no proper communication has taken place.

IMO posting the videos posted don't show commitment to producing a film (but then what would I know).

As I said earlier it appears to be a case of "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation is possible".

I get the bigger picture, but your comment "it only takes an hour" made it seem like you don´t know about the problems. I surely would appreciate a weekly update going into detail so i could learn a little about film production, but such a thing regretfully is beyond their capacities.

All i tried to do was to explain why it can´t be done, as your comment indicated it would be very easy and not to do it was sloppy.

 

[Burninfilm]

and

If you can't see the bigger picture, about why I made that particular post (and previous posts) and about why I said I had lost faith in this whole project, then I won't go any further as I appear to be talking to the wind.

I am not out to disrespect or belittle Ferrania or their efforts to product film. I welcome any new development.

But I do question (which is my prerogative) why it has taken so long and no proper communication has taken place.

Yes, you are likely talking to the wind. And yes, it is OK to be critical of Ferrania... they’ve done a bad job with many things, and it’s ok to point that out. It’s possible to respect their continued efforts and attempts to bring film products to market, but even Dave Bias admits there were things that could have been done better. I’ve been pretty hard on them, but ultimately, it really doesn’t matter. They’ll either bring viable and wanted film products to market... or... they won’t. Even if they DO bring stuff to market, it might not sell well. That’s a ton of time to waste, and a ton of risk to be exposed to, just to try to keep an old film testing facility up and running as a little factory. So I respect that as well. I can only wonder how much 100 speed B&W film they can sell at $8 to $10 a roll.

Back on topic, I have a few questions for Film Ferrania:

1. What ever happened to the "Friends of Film" program? Something you still plan to implement?
2. If you DO instate the "Friends of Film" program, will it be for all backers, or just for backers that chose the option to keep their original reward (which is what the original deal was for before it got changed)?
3. What ever happened to the "tool" you mentioned for backers to use in place of their original "reward"? Is this still going to be a thing? It was mentioned a lot for a short while, then silence. Weird.
4. If you do offer backers a credit in place of the original "reward", what is the credit going to be? Full value of the original pledge?
5. Have any plans for the production of color slide film been cancelled indefinitely? I remember some discussion about different B&W film products, so obviously those would take their own bit of R&D, and considering Film Ferrania's history of product delivery, any prospects of color slide film production seem too far into the future to even worry about. Ferrania has made some comments recently that made it sound like the color slide film thing has been basically passed over.

I honestly don't care if the "Ferraniachrome" project is dead, and I'd be insanely surprised it it ever actually became a reality. Just curious about some of the other things Ferrania has promised along the way that have never materialized.

 

[Agulliver]

But I do question (which is my prerogative) why it has taken so long and no proper communication has taken place.

What? Every single step of the process has been communicated, including every success, every failure, every hurdle, every road the Italian government built through the Ferrania campus....what more do you want?

 

[dutchsteammachine]

Before you know it they will be like flat earthers and demand a 24/7 livestream of the campus from the moon.

I for one liked their P30 alpha film I shot 1/2 years ago. Bought 3 rolls, have one left as a keepsake incase everything crumbles down.

 

[faberryman]

I for one liked their P30 alpha film I shot 1/2 years ago. Bought 3 rolls, have one left as a keepsake incase everything crumbles down.

Keepsake?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I get the bigger picture, but your comment "it only takes an hour" made it seem like you don´t know about the problems. I surely would appreciate a weekly update going into detail so i could learn a little about film production, but such a thing regretfully is beyond their capacities.

All i tried to do was to explain why it can´t be done, as your comment indicated it would be very easy and not to do it was sloppy.

If you want to learn about film production, read Bob Shanebrook's book about the subject.

PE

 

[tih]

If you want to learn about film production, read Bob Shanebrook's book about the subject.

It's available here: http://www.makingkodakfilm.com/ - and I would add, from an interested layman's point of view, that I found the book fascinating!

 

[Photo Engineer]

Having seen all of that in full operation, and having used and run some of it, I can say it is truly impressive. Although "run" is a relative thing for something as huge as one of these things that can only be properly run by some sort of automation.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

If you want to learn about film production, read Bob Shanebrook's book about the subject.
PE

and anyone who has read Shanebrook's Book, would not even think to ask many of the silly questions that have come up on this thread.

making film is hard, doing it with a dozen workers, even very experienced workers using the tools they are used to using is insanely hard. Unfortunately the book costs more than what is probably the average pledge to the FF kick starter, so those who figure that they are horrendously out of pocket are unlikely to be inspired to order a copy.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Charles, I agree, but then why do they complain about lack of progress and lack of understanding?

IDK.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

Charles, I agree, but then why do they complain about lack of progress and lack of understanding?
PE

I am assuming that folks fell good about complaining, and I am guessing that the loudest complainers are folks who did not make a major contribution to the kickstarter. As I say, I am only a 4 roll supporter so I can set back and see the fun. I am not surprised that Mr. Bias has not given a running commentary with such an impossible audience.

 

[Pioneer]

So the theory on the table is that the strength of the complaint has an inverse relationship to the amount of the contribution.

What I'm smelling right now doesn't seem to be sweet lilacs.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Yes, you are likely talking to the wind. And yes, it is OK to be critical of Ferrania... they’ve done a bad job with many things, and it’s ok to point that out. It’s possible to respect their continued efforts and attempts to bring film products to market, but even Dave Bias admits there were things that could have been done better. I’ve been pretty hard on them, but ultimately, it really doesn’t matter. They’ll either bring viable and wanted film products to market... or... they won’t. Even if they DO bring stuff to market, it might not sell well. That’s a ton of time to waste, and a ton of risk to be exposed to, just to try to keep an old film testing facility up and running as a little factory. So I respect that as well. I can only wonder how much 100 speed B&W film they can sell at $8 to $10 a roll.

Back on topic, I have a few questions for Film Ferrania:

1. What ever happened to the "Friends of Film" program? Something you still plan to implement?
2. If you DO instate the "Friends of Film" program, will it be for all backers, or just for backers that chose the option to keep their original reward (which is what the original deal was for before it got changed)?
3. What ever happened to the "tool" you mentioned for backers to use in place of their original "reward"? Is this still going to be a thing? It was mentioned a lot for a short while, then silence. Weird.
4. If you do offer backers a credit in place of the original "reward", what is the credit going to be? Full value of the original pledge?
5. Have any plans for the production of color slide film been cancelled indefinitely? I remember some discussion about different B&W film products, so obviously those would take their own bit of R&D, and considering Film Ferrania's history of product delivery, any prospects of color slide film production seem too far into the future to even worry about. Ferrania has made some comments recently that made it sound like the color slide film thing has been basically passed over.

I honestly don't care if the "Ferraniachrome" project is dead, and I'd be insanely surprised it it ever actually became a reality. Just curious about some of the other things Ferrania has promised along the way that have never materialized.

...you´re aware that one result of the hard critizism (which often just was rage) is that Ferrania/Dave Bias now only do communicate stuff which is 110% certain?
It´s kinda funny to see how a person does silence down communication, just to demand more of it - well it actually was funny if it wouldn´t stop flow of communication for all being interested.

 

[Harry Callahan]

If you want to learn about film production, read Bob Shanebrook's book about the subject.

PE

Thank you very much, but i wouldn´t be able to suck up all the details. So some sort of "light" version, showing rough coherences every one or two months, so i have time to think about it, probably was all i could take.
I know one also can lay down a book to think about it, but i fear a specialist book just was too much for me, probably for most.

Charles, I agree, but then why do they complain about lack of progress and lack of understanding?

IDK.

PE

Complaining always is easier than to think for yourself why this and that is not the way you want it to be. And today its way easier to let the world know about your complains, it just takes a minute. Thinking for yourself on the other hand...

 

[Agulliver]

I only backed them sufficiently to get the postcards....and I'm not complaining. I feel some sympathy for the folks at Film Ferrania I am pretty sure are putting everything into the project.....

There is some scope for criticism but the negativity, entitlement and statements to the effect that Film Ferrania have already failed or will never produce film because some individual who knows nothing about film manufacture is convinced they can't do it.....do nobody any good. I doubt the complainers actually feel better....as they are still complaining.

People backed a kickstarter project....that guaranteed nothing, we weren't ordering anything or paying for a product.....this was made abundantly clear at the beginning....if the project does eventually fail to get off the ground...at least we tried. And I say "we" because everyone who contributed money or even cheered Film Ferrania on from the sidelines has played a small part. I'm pretty sure they'll put P30 into proper production for 135 and 120....what happens next may well depend on how successful they are in selling P30 and if any bigger investors are on board.

 

[donkee]

Though I was hoping to have a freezer stocked with their new films by now, I believe being patient (would this qualify as the patience of a saint?) and seeing what happens. It would be wonderful if they came out with the products they planned on originally but just let them keep working on it. If they succeed then we can party like it's 2099 and if not they gave it a shot and should be commended for the attempt. Anyone else stepping up to do this? If so then maybe those folks can "do it the right way". There are still other films to use for now so it isn't like this is the only option. If I lived nearby I would be happy to help out with what little free time I do have but the commute from Michigan would be a bit too much......

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thank you very much, but i wouldn´t be able to suck up all the details. So some sort of "light" version, showing rough coherences every one or two months, so i have time to think about it, probably was all i could take.
I know one also can lay down a book to think about it, but i fear a specialist book just was too much for me, probably for most.

Complaining always is easier than to think for yourself why this and that is not the way you want it to be. And today its way easier to let the world know about your complains, it just takes a minute. Thinking for yourself on the other hand...

Harry, I just don't understand.

You complained and then asked for more information on film production.

When presented with a source, you said you "wouldn't be able to suck up all the details", which says you wouldn't understand. So, if the subject is so complex you and probably many others cannot understand (I'm taking you as typical), then why complain when people who do understand are silent (myself for example) or the people working on the project.

You see, this is very very difficult with thousands of moving parts.

PE

 

[dutchsteammachine]

PE has spoken.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Harry, I just don't understand.

You complained and then asked for more information on film production.

When presented with a source, you said you "wouldn't be able to suck up all the details", which says you wouldn't understand. So, if the subject is so complex you and probably many others cannot understand (I'm taking you as typical), then why complain when people who do understand are silent (myself for example) or the people working on the project.

You see, this is very very difficult with thousands of moving parts.

PE

Where did i complain?

"foc" did complain, "burninfilm" did complain, all i said was:

I get the bigger picture, but your comment "it only takes an hour" made it seem like you don´t know about the problems. I surely would appreciate a weekly update going into detail so i could learn a little about film production, but such a thing regretfully is beyond their capacities.

All i tried to do was to explain why it can´t be done, as your comment indicated it would be very easy and not to do it was sloppy.

I did explain why a short video-update cannot be made - i apologize in due form but you seem to mistake those who complain with those who explain.