Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[cmacd123]

Hmm... I think it would be
easier to grow bananas
in Italy than to make film
there...

II have seen a Banana plant growing here in Ottawa, (it was in a greenhouse but still.....) But I get that Grapes are worth more as a crop in italy.

 

[railwayman3]

I noticed the other day that it has been 5 Years that the new factory has been on the go. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/filmferrania/100-more-years-of-analog-film/posts/1014919

[/QUOTE

Is it really *five* years....in that time my step-daughter has got married and produced a little boy, who started at first school last month.......

 

[foc]

Is it a case of better late than never?
A lot can happen in 5 years.

I was in Italy on holidays two weeks ago, Santa Maria di Castellabata, Salerno. Maybe I should have driven north and taken a look.
On second thoughts, I am glad I didn't waste my time.

 

[Ces1um]

computers take everything so darn literally.

So do kleptomaniacs. They take everything literally.

 

[Rudeofus]

I was in Italy on holidays two weeks ago, Santa Maria di Castellabata, Salerno. Maybe I should have driven north and taken a look.
On second thoughts, I am glad I didn't waste my time.

And what's even better: I am glad you didn't waste their time!

Yes, five years is a long time, but making film is a serious venture, not some playground task to be completed by following simple instructions. I'd really like to know, whether any of these armchair "experts" yammering about delays ever even attempted to coat their own emulsion and how far they got.

 

[Agulliver]

For how much of that five years have they actually been able to work in the LRF?

 

[pentaxuser]

I wonder what effect the "new Ilford film" will have on Ferrania. At best it may not affect what I suspect is a tiny market for the P30 but on the other hand if it is a low speed Delta 25 then it may.

If I were a key player in Ferrania and my main aim was to remain in film production because that is my main interest in life then I suppose that as long as it gives me a living I am doing what I want to do and getting paid. On the other hand if I were sensitive to the effect of the delays and mindful of the effect on Ferrania's credibility with its public I might be tempted to give up

pentaxuser

 

[warden]

I wonder what effect the "new Ilford film" will have on Ferrania. At best it may not affect what I suspect is a tiny market for the P30 but on the other hand if it is a low speed Delta 25 then it may....

I was wondering the same. Unlike Ferrania though, we'll soon know exactly what Ilford is up to. I wish them both the best.

 

[railwayman3]

Yes, five years is a long time, but making film is a serious venture, not some playground task to be completed by following simple instructions. I'd really like to know, whether any of these armchair "experts" yammering about delays ever even attempted to coat their own emulsion and how far they got.

I have never attempted to coat my own emulsion, would never try, and do not consider myself an "expert" in anything to do with photography generally. (Having run a successful professional practice for many years, I do offer my services as something of an "expert" in other fields. which clients of many years standing seem to accept. )

Ferrania raised funds by suggesting that they were "experts" in photographic manufacturing, and were "ready to go"....I am sure that the individuals there are genuine are very well qualified in their technical experience and knowledge, and I am sure that they have had many setbacks beyond their control. Reasonable contributors have cut them a lot of slack for all this. But "five years"......I can understand a bit of yammering and disappointment.... ??????

 

[wyofilm]

I really don't understand the waiting for Ferrania to fail mentality. The recent vid put out by Adox is enough to convince me of some of the difficulties that Ferrania faces.

I say kudos to them for sticking with it.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I just do not understand your discussion here. You talk about coating an emulsion. I've got news for you all. You have to make one first and that is not a trivial task itself.

PE

 

[macfred]

Ron, please empathise - many of us are stricken in years - not sure they can wait another five years ...

 

[tih]

Frankly, I think the Ferrania story is getting more exciting with each passing year.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I am quite old myself macfred. I may not have time left to finish my second book.

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

Ferrania raised funds by suggesting that they were "experts" in photographic manufacturing, and were "ready to go"....I am sure that the individuals there are genuine are very well qualified in their technical experience and knowledge, and I am sure that they have had many setbacks beyond their control. Reasonable contributors have cut them a lot of slack for all this. But "five years"......I can understand a bit of yammering and disappointment.... ??????

Ferrania raised investor money to do a coating with remaining material. This didn't work out for reasons which were explained, and the story could have stopped right there. A bunch of folks would have lost their money - that's the way investment money works all too frequently. But instead of sending everyone a "sorry note" and pursuing other things in life, Ferrania team saw value in the defunct coating facility and started a huge push to restore it to working order. The initial money obviously did not and could not pay for this facility restoration effort, the only real overlap between those two efforts was the goal to coat E-6 material.

They committed to heeding their expired pledges anyway, although they would have absolutely no obligation to do so.Yes, it's absolutely possible, that the whole Ferrania operation goes nowhere, and they'd still not owe you a thing. However, in case Ferrania succeeds in coating working E-6 film, they promised to send you as much as what they pledged five years ago anyway - for free. Instead of anxious curiosity some initial investors now react with blunt attacks and derision. Consider this a free gift, which may materialize or not. Go ahead, kick them in the nuts for that!

There appears to be a distinct divide between engineers/researchers and people outside. It's a normal thing for engineering/research projects to run into delays or unexpected situations. If a project runs according to some bar chart, then chances are there was no risk in this project and the engineers spend the time allocated for risk mitigation on playing computer games.

 

[faberryman]

Ferrania raised investor money to do a coating with remaining material.

The explanations I have heard from Ferrania is that the purpose of the Kickstarter project was to purchase and move the coating and ancillary machines. They weren't just raising money to do a coating with the remaining materials.

 

[cmacd123]

The explanations I have heard from Ferrania is that the purpose of the Kickstarter project was to purchase and move the coating and ancillary machines.

indeed, they allocated a Very small percentage of the total to actually make the "rewards" film. the kickstarter was 100 more years of analog film. and the main thrust was to salvage enough equipment to make film before the whole complex was sent to the junkyard. I doubt that they asked for enough money to do everything that they sent out to do. Hence the mysterious investor.

 

[Rudeofus]

The explanations I have heard from Ferrania is that the purpose of the Kickstarter project was to purchase and move the coating and ancillary machines. They weren't just raising money to do a coating with the remaining materials.

The kickstarter campaign docs can still be found here. The invested money was to be used for saving three essential machines from destruction. With these machines, a small emulsion run was planned to satisfy the pledges. There was a long string of updates which detailed and highlighted the crazy problems Ferrania ran into, and as a result this promised coating could not happen before the chemistry went bad.

So technically you're right, the kickstarter money was intended for long term goals, but the pledge itself was a "now or never" thing which went bust over unusually cold winters, missing chillers, and walls covered in asbestos.

 

[foc]

I am glad you didn't waste their time!

You presume I would have interrupted some work on the site if I had driven up to the factory.

I have made my opinion on all this quite plain in previous posts on here.

I would love to have disturbed the work at the factory ( if any work was being done) but then you know my opinion.

 

[foc]

I just do not understand your discussion here. You talk about coating an emulsion. I've got news for you all. You have to make one first and that is not a trivial task itself.

PE

I am not an expert but to me th PE has sumed it all up

 

[cmacd123]

I am not an expert but to me th PE has sumed it all up

plus I doubt if any E6 film can be made with less than 2 layers per colour, and the yellow filter layer, plus a separation layer between each colour, so you need 7 or more layers, so 8 emulsion Batches, each of which has to PERFECTLY track each other. (assuming the separation layers are all the same.)

 

[Photo Engineer]

For reversal color, you need up to 9 emulsions in up to 12 or more layers. This is based on how you construct the film.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

For reversal color, you need up to 9 emulsions in up to 12 or more layers. This is based on how you construct the film.

So I was close It is not "rocket surgery"- it is quite a bit more complex.

 

[Europan]

If they were only a bit more productive in little with, say, a non-sensitized print stock, a one-layer black-and-white film, they could crack up the market positively in many ways. They could feed the dormant Ciné-Club 9,5 de France with unperforated 35mm. They could serve the Double-Eight film scene with it, the Double-Super-Eighters. An additional 16mm print stock could help bring some people back to film, the more so, if perforated both sides. The Film Photography Project people have understood that there’s a need for it. ORWO PF can be had perforated 2-r., yes.

I’m putting this up because Kodak weighs cameras over projectors. Announce a new Super-8 camera but no projector. Offer new Ektachrome 100 perforated with short pitch which goes against the original idea of small-gauge reversal film. Negatives are most often perforated short pitch for continuous contact printing, that has become mainstream. Are there any duplicating stocks available for Ektachrome? No. Kodak has discontinued color reversal print film and black reversal print stocks. Color reversal intermediate film wouldn’t call for short pitch because CRIs should be exposed on precision equipment in order to maintain good image steadiness. But then again intermittent mass printing is practically inexistent.

Kodak technicians only think of Ektachrome running through modern professional cameras of which most are set for short pitch film. Ektachrome is a semi-professional film. Honestly, it’s a film for amateurs exactly by the non-availability of duplicating stocks. So Kodak thinks of Kodak reversal films to run through cameras and to be scanned after processing. No more

Film Ferrania could jump in right there. Offer the stocks that do keep filmmaking alive. I wouldn’t bother about one single washer with film coating equipment, if the film made upon it just faces to be scanned. Film Ferrania could offer a universal film, that would be a slow fine-grain panchromatic film corrected for ultra short exposure on colourless TAC. That could be used for picture and sound recording, for making dupes, and prints. And titles.

Slitters are there, perforators. Still photography needn’t be the only field for P30. Or a P20.

 

[Agulliver]

The "ready to go" really is not fair on Film Ferrania. They were, at one point, in a position to use the machinery and left over emulsions to make one last run of Ferraniachrome E6 film, to fulfil the kickstarter backers before the rest of the money was used to move the machines into the LRF and restart as "Film Ferrania". For various reasons all of which Dave and the team have been very open about, this couldn't happen. None of it was their doing, their fault nor was it foreseeable. They were never in a position to be "ready to go" into full, continuous production - and crucially they never claimed to be so.

As things stand five years down the road, Film Ferrania haven't actually had access to the LRF for most of that five years. THey've had unlimited access since summer 2019 and have made it very clear their next communication will be when they're able to operate continuous in-house production of B&W film in 135 and 120. The next step is said to be 127 B&W and then more research into colour films.

I see the same ill-informed whining in the analogue audio cassette world where the "last man standing", Maxell, has ended production and several smaller companies are hoping to step in. One such company had a presence on forums and in social media....and was pretty much vilified for taking time to manufacture cassette tape from scratch. The same whining I see here "Why isn't it ready? Where's MY tape? I want! I need! I deserve!"....A couple of other companies who were already making reel to reel tape secretly beavered away for two to three years and then announced their beta test cassette tape and are lauded by the very same people even though they took just as long to come up with a product.

The lesson is, sadly....don't engage with your potential customers about the process of getting into production.

There are times when I genuinely am ashamed to be a human being.