Finch tends to exaggerate the virtues of some of the techniques he advocates. Therefore, it’s advisable for those consuming his content to critically evaluate what they’re being told and thoroughly research it before accepting it as absolute truth.
In this case, he appears to just be re-stating something Thornton himself talks about - that you can increase contrast by using 20g of sodium metaborate instead of 12g in bath B, and you can decrease contrast by using 7g instead of 12g.
Finch tends to exaggerate the virtues of some of the techniques he advocates. Therefore, it’s advisable for those consuming his content to critically evaluate what they’re being told and thoroughly research it before accepting it as absolute truth.
Good advice regardless of the source, I think
Yes, both.My guess is, the relatively high temperature had a pretty big effect. I may also be agitating too much.
Gave BTTB a first try yesterday. It was a roll of HP5+ rated at 320. Nothing particularly contrasty on there since I generally shoot in overcast or shady conditions. I wanted to see if I could get away with using it at room temp in my darkroom (which hovers around 75 F or so, it's kind of a warm room). But more than that, I'm just very curious to see whether the "definition" (acutance + the right amount of grain, if Thornton's claims are taken at face value) is noticeably better than my results in Instant Mytol. Particularly whether I can detect edge effects, as I don't think I've ever used a developer that is specifically good at producing those.
Gave 5 mins in Bath A with normal agitation (~10 seconds per minute), then 5 mins in Bath B with the same agitation. Stopped and fixed normally. Negs are drying now and I should be able to contact print tonight.
Overall... they seem super dense, even in the shadow areas. FB+F seems normal in the rebate though. My guess is, the relatively high temperature had a pretty big effect. I may also be agitating too much. Online I see a lot of "standard agitation for ~5-10 seconds every minute," but IIRC, Thornton's book that I just finished reading specified doing more or less as little agitation as you can get away with.
But I'm not particularly great at divining things by looking at negatives. A max black through FB+F contact print of the roll at grade 2 will tell me if my suspicions are right about how contrasty these images probably ended up.
More tests are in order!
I'm using Multitone RC pearl which I believe is by Inkpress, though the name isn't shown anywhere on the box and envelopes. This paper is naturally punchy, I had to alter a few things to get the contrast just right with working with this material. With using the two-bath development this seems to be proving good with this particular paper.
I switched to Multitone due to price. I am saving 2 to 2.3 times the amount of money for the same quantty of paper from the other brand that I was using.
At that temperature, you need to reduce both time, and amount of agitation. Better to correct temperature next time (no warmer than 70F) and aim for 4.5 minutes with gentle agitation for no more than 3-5 seconds per cycle. In bath B, one inversion per minute is plenty.
I consulted a handful of time/temp charts and calculators, and they all generally agree that if a developer is meant to have 5 mins at 68F, then bumping the temp to 75F should shorten development time to about 3m20s or thereabouts.
At that temperature, you need to reduce both time, and amount of agitation. Better to correct temperature next time (no warmer than 70F) and aim for 4.5 minutes with gentle agitation for no more than 3-5 seconds per cycle. In bath B, one inversion per minute is plenty.
I'm going to try again and see what happens with a 3:30 time in both A and B at my standard room temp of 75° F, knocking agitation way down in B. Perhaps that short time is outside of "reasonable limits," but I am willing to potentially sacrifice some non-critical films to find out. I'm very incentivized to see if I can get it working at my above average room temp.
I don't want to fall into the trap of suggesting that I know The One True Way with BT2B. But I have used no other developer for 15-20 years now, and have been very happy with the results, so perhaps it might be forgivable, even helpful, for me to make a few observations on the last few posts?
First, you should not be getting very dense negatives with this developer. I don't know how to illustrate this in thread, but mine quite typically print on Ilford Multigrade #2. For instance, I expose HP5+ at 400 ISO and develop for 4.5 + 4.5 min at 23 deg C (73 deg F). One warning: don't develop film on the same day that you mix bath A, as it can be a little 'hot'. Wait until the following day at least.
Second, whatever BT himself said, temperature does matter. All chemical reactions proceed faster at higher temperatures. I stick with the development time that I have established for my habits and equipment, but adjust it using a time/temp chart if I'm unable or too lazy to match my preferred temperature of 23 deg C. (I don't know why I standardised to that temperature, but it works for me.)
Third, agitation is an inflammatory subject here on Photrio, and perhaps just a matter of personal conviction. But FWIW, I give continuous gentle inversion agitation in bath A, and as little as possible in Bath B. I mention this only because I don't get very dense negatives despite that maximal agitation in Bath A. So if you are getting very dense negatives, I don't think excessive agitation in Bath A is the culprit.
I don't want to fall into the trap of suggesting that I know The One True Way with BT2B. But I have used no other developer for 15-20 years now, and have been very happy with the results, so perhaps it might be forgivable, even helpful, for me to make a few observations on the last few posts?
First, you should not be getting very dense negatives with this developer. I don't know how to illustrate this in thread, but mine quite typically print on Ilford Multigrade #2. For instance, I expose HP5+ at 400 ISO and develop for 4.5 + 4.5 min at 23 deg C (73 deg F). One warning: don't develop film on the same day that you mix bath A, as it can be a little 'hot'. Wait until the following day at least.
Second, whatever BT himself said, temperature does matter. All chemical reactions proceed faster at higher temperatures. I stick with the development time that I have established for my habits and equipment, but adjust it using a time/temp chart if I'm unable or too lazy to match my preferred temperature of 23 deg C. (I don't know why I standardised to that temperature, but it works for me.)
Third, agitation is an inflammatory subject here on Photrio, and perhaps just a matter of personal conviction. But FWIW, I give continuous gentle inversion agitation in bath A, and as little as possible in Bath B. I mention this only because I don't get very dense negatives despite that maximal agitation in Bath A. So if you are getting very dense negatives, I don't think excessive agitation in Bath A is the culprit.
I'd love to know exactly what your bath B agitation looks like for HP5+ (as little as possible makes sense, but what does that end up being in real terms?).
Agreed. If you're getting overdeveloped negatives, there's something not right here. I suspect the combination of warm developer, time in both baths, and too much agitation added up to overdevelopment. Many practitioners recommend 4 minutes as a starting point, and only add more time if your negs are too flat. I think that a temperature of 75F is going to have significant influence on the outcome, so I would suggest getting that temperature down to at least 70F.First, you should not be getting very dense negatives with this developer. I don't know how to illustrate this in thread, but mine quite typically print on Ilford Multigrade #2. For instance, I expose HP5+ at 400 ISO and develop for 4.5 + 4.5 min at 23 deg C (73 deg F). One warning: don't develop film on the same day that you mix bath A, as it can be a little 'hot'. Wait until the following day at least.
Second, whatever BT himself said, temperature does matter. All chemical reactions proceed faster at higher temperatures.
Basically, I pour in Bath B, start the clock, twiddle the stick for 10 sec (I use Paterson tanks) and give a couple of taps, then put on the lid. Invert at 30 sec, then at 1 min (from start), then at 1 min intervals until the end (which obviously varies with temperature).I'd love to know exactly what your bath B agitation looks like for HP5+ (as little as possible makes sense, but what does that end up being in real terms?).
To all practical purposes, time/temp charts don't differ very much. There's one available on the Ilford website, for instance. But there was a discussion here on Photrio a while back about how different developing agents have different responses with temperature, from which I created a metol-specific chart. If you are really perfectionist, you might use that for BT2B. I have a copy on my darkroom wall, but quite often I forget and use the standard Ilford one.And if you're up for sharing your time/temp conversion chart as well, it would be good to have on hand.
Tri-X is un-competitively expensive over here in the UK, so I don't use it any longer. I do use Double-X, rated at 320 ISO, and I give that 4 + 4 min at 23 deg C. That works out pretty nice. Here's an example, but I'm going to ring the changes a bit to see what it does to the tonality.@snusmumriken I'm also curious to know if you get good results with Tri-X with the same development time as HP5+.
If you stand Bath B for periods longer than 1 min, you'll likely find you get streamers. I did (with 35mm).Surprised you're still agitating once per minute, that seems like a lot. I guess I was picturing something more akin to semi-stand.
Now I wonder how much of my bulletproof negs result from the first roll of HP5+ was due to using the developer immediately after mixing Bath A.
I'll report back next time I soup a roll.
That would be interesting. Is there a way we could do that in practice?I'd be curious to compare my negs with yours.
That would be interesting. Is there a way we could do that in practice?
Excellent idea!Maybe I should plan a visit to Stonehenge...
Is this Multitone RC Pearl the paper that is sold by Adorama and is it made by InkPress?There was a thread on what this was and who makes it that was as confusing as could be. What little info that had been gathered seemed to suggest it was Inkjet paper that could be used under a safelight ???? The ínference from this would appear to a Inkjet paper that doubles as a darkroom paper. Sounded crazy to me
What is the other brand that you were using that was over twice as expensive?
Thanks
pentaxuser
Let us know how they come out. As I said, for some reason, I haven't been able to find a sweet spot for Tri-X in TTB, but neither have I for the same film in D-23 (very similar to TTB in many ways).
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