BLIX and Bleach Disposal

[NortheastPhotographic]

Any particular way to make BLIX or Bleach III safe to dump? Can BLIX be run through silver recovery?

Thank ya thank ya!

 

[removed account4]

Yes, as long as your ph is between 5 and 6 you can send it through a trickle tank.. but then you still have to dispose it. Being a business I am guessing you needed to get an EPA number
and you have all your disposal records handy...

 

[mshchem]

The amount of silver is very low. But yes any commercial photo lab I know of recovers the silver from blix, and fixer baths before sending the effluent down the municipal sewer. Sometimes they make a little money. The cheapest way to comply in the old days was a Kodak cartridge that I believe had iron wool. Exchanged silver and put harmless iron in the waste water stream.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Blix is very low in toxicity, but does have a rather large BOD and COD.

I am not sure about Bleach III.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

And the rules in many places mean that you have to be careful if you do "anything" with a aim to "Treat" any waste product without the right permits. if you are a commecrial operation.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

I'm all squared up on the environmental regs and I do everything I an to minimize my footprint so to speak. Just wasn't sure if Bleach could go through a trickle tank. Glad it can!

 

[EdSawyer]

you should almost never have to dump bleach III. It's nearly infinitely regenerable, and much cheaper to use that way.

 

[removed account4]

I'm all squared up on the environmental regs and I do everything I an to minimize my footprint so to speak. Just wasn't sure if Bleach could go through a trickle tank. Glad it can!

just make sure if you use it in a trickle tank you dump water in the tank first, its a wet>wet situation. otherwise you will channel your media bucket and waste most of your steel wool

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

you should almost never have to dump bleach III. It's nearly infinitely regenerable, and much cheaper to use that way.

Does Kodak even make regenerator any more? I haven't been able to find it. How would I regenerate RA bleach after draining the waste tank of a leader card processor?

 

[mshchem]

Blix is very low in toxicity, but does have a rather large BOD and COD.

I am not sure about Bleach III.

PE

Does C-41 bleach contain significant amounts of silver? I thought most all the silver went into the fixer?? I understand blix being of concern. I'm curious.

 

[bdial]

Does C-41 bleach contain significant amounts of silver? I thought most all the silver went into the fixer?? I understand blix being of concern. I'm curious.

The fixer only gets the unexposed silver, the exposed silver gets removed by the bleach (or the bleach component of blix, which is bleach and fixer combined). The end result is that fixer and bleach both contain silver.

 

[mshchem]

The fixer only gets the unexposed silver, the exposed silver gets removed by the bleach (or the bleach component of blix, which is bleach and fixer combined). The end result is that fixer and bleach both contain silver.

Bear with me, I'm a little slow. I was under the impression that the bleach converts the developed metallic image to a silver salt that then is removed by the fixer.
I'm not doubting, just trying to understand how this works.
Thanks, Mike

 

[bdial]

Bear with me, I'm a little slow. I was under the impression that the bleach converts the developed metallic image to a silver salt that then is removed by the fixer.
I'm not doubting, just trying to understand how this works.
Thanks, Mike

It's always been my understanding that there is recoverable silver in bleach, but most of the references I see doing a little searching refer to blix. So, I don't actually know the answer as to whether just bleach also contains silver.

Maybe one of the chemists will step in here.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The bleach contains trace amounts of Silver as the Ammonium complex, but it is very very low in content. At least it should be. All of the Silver is expected to go into the fixer.

PE

 

[mshchem]

The bleach contains trace amounts of Silver as the Ammonium complex, but it is very very low in content. At least it should be. All of the Silver is expected to go into the fixer.

PE

Thanks for the lesson. My only insight is from sepia toner bleach. So in C-41 does the bleach convert the silver into halides? I need to get out my books and read up.
Best Mike

 

[EdSawyer]

seems still available:

https://www.uniquephoto.com/kodak-flexicolor-bleach-iii-regeneratorfor-100l-26-4gal3626850

even better price (and in stock) here:

http://buffalous.com/kodak-flexicolor-bleach-iii-regenerator-to-regenerate-100-l.html

 

[EdSawyer]

Just as an FYI, regenerator is used 2 oz per liter of bleach, to regenerate it for re-use. I regenerate after each full use of a 5L batch. It seems to last indefinitely with no detectable degradation. Bleach is the most expensive part of C41 so this helps on costs quite a bit.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks for the lesson. My only insight is from sepia toner bleach. So in C-41 does the bleach convert the silver into halides? I need to get out my books and read up.
Best Mike

Fe+3 + Ag0 --> Ag+1 + Fe+2.

The Ag+1 reacts with the KBr in the bleach to form AgBr and K+1 and the tiny amount of AgBr that reacts with the NH4+1 forms a tiny fraction of soluble Silver Ammonium complex which is slightly soluble in this solution.

PE

 

[mshchem]

Fe+3 + Ag0 --> Ag+1 + Fe+2.

The Ag+1 reacts with the KBr in the bleach to form AgBr and K+1 and the tiny amount of AgBr that reacts with the NH4+1 forms a tiny fraction of soluble Silver Ammonium complex which is slightly soluble in this solution.

PE

Thank You!

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

seems still available:

https://www.uniquephoto.com/kodak-flexicolor-bleach-iii-regeneratorfor-100l-26-4gal3626850

even better price (and in stock) here:

http://buffalous.com/kodak-flexicolor-bleach-iii-regenerator-to-regenerate-100-l.html

My Noritsu V30 uses RA or Rapid Access bleach. I can't find any info as to whether this type of bleach can be regenerated... It is indeed the most expensive part of the process though so I would love to cut costs there.

 

[mshchem]

My Noritsu V30 uses RA or Rapid Access bleach. I can't find any info as to whether this type of bleach can be regenerated... It is indeed the most expensive part of the process though so I would love to cut costs there.

You don't regenerate. It uses a replenisher. It's consumed in the process. IIRC there's 7 tanks. Developer, bleach , fix, fix, stabilizer, stabilizer, stabilizer. The 3 stabilizer baths are counter-current so the stabilizer bath after the 2nd fixer would have any waste which is minimal. The only time you change out solutions is if you let them go bad, or there's an out of control situation. I can't remember exactly but the bleach only consumes a few milliliters per roll. I think 5 liters of C-41 RA bleach will process 200-300 rolls of 36 exp.

You are running a minilab machine. Sweet setup.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

You don't regenerate. It uses a replenisher. It's consumed in the process. IIRC there's 7 tanks. Developer, bleach , fix, fix, stabilizer, stabilizer, stabilizer. The 3 stabilizer baths are counter-current so the stabilizer bath after the 2nd fixer would have any waste which is minimal. The only time you change out solutions is if you let them go bad, or there's an out of control situation. I can't remember exactly but the bleach only consumes a few milliliters per roll. I think 5 liters of C-41 RA bleach will process 200-300 rolls of 36 exp.

You are running a minilab machine. Sweet setup.

The machine does have waste tanks though, each one is separated. If I could somehow regenerate the waste bleach and put it right back into the replenisher tank that would be amazing. Those numbers do sound right for how often I go through 5L of replenisher in the tank.

 

[mshchem]

The machine does have waste tanks though, each one is separated. If I could somehow regenerate the waste bleach and put it right back into the replenisher tank that would be amazing. Those numbers do sound right for how often I go through 5L of replenisher in the tank.

The waste is mostly stabilizer contaminated with bleach carried over with the film.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

The waste is mostly stabilizer contaminated with bleach carried over with the film.

My V30 has separate waste tanks for CD, bleach, Fix, and Stab. It will start beeping at me when one is full, and you drain them out of their own independent nozzles.

 

[mshchem]

My V30 has separate waste tanks for CD, bleach, Fix, and Stab. It will start beeping at me when one is full, and you drain them out of their own independent nozzles.

OK, I don't see how you could reformulate viable replenisher from your effluent tanks.