Bronica ETRS shuter not firing and lens not releasing

[Strudders]

Good afternoon and hope everyone is well.

I have a Bronica ETRS that has been in a cupboard for quite a while now and I decided to renew my interest in using it in addition to my Nikon DSLR. However, after getting it out and trying to get it going, I find that the shutter won't fire and the lens won't release. I have been through previous threads and using some of previous poster's tips, have listed below all the things that I have tried with no success -

1. New film loaded and crank wound until engaged - indicator shows 1 on the dial

2. Dark slide removed from film back

3. New battery inserted after cleaning the contacts and light shows up when button on camera body depressed.

4. Time exposure switch on the body is upright so set to manual and I moved it back and forth a few times to ensure that is so.

5. Slider on lens is set to automatic and again I moved it a few times before locking it back in place

6. Shutter release button has the red dot at the bottom position which per the manual should enable shutter release

7. Have tried shutter release on the body and then fitted the speed grip with same result.

8. Lens release button does not work

9. Also tried without metered prism head fitted and contacts cleaned

10. I cleaned the pin on the film back which extends when the dark slide is inserted and it seems free

Two questions from my other observations though please. Both the pin showing in the cable release socket pic A plus the pin to the lower back of the body pic B when the film back is removed are both solid. Should I be able to use say an old paper clip to push either or both of those pins in at all or should they be solid?

Any other suggestions would be welcome and if it gets down to being unusable, is there at least a way of releasing the lens as a friend would be able to make sue of it.

Many thanks
Paul

 

[M-88]

Hello. Welcome to Photrio

I have read every point of what you wrote and I think that you took all the measures in order to avoid interlocks and shutter is supposed to fire properly. It is very good of you to review other threads and rule out all the possibilities. However I want to tell you that Bronica ETR will fire even with no batteries, only at 1/500 speed, because that is the only mechanical (non-electronic) shutter speed available. Still, it is very good that you checked the camera with batteries - now we know that at least "battery check" button works and the body is not completely dead... What bothers me right now is point 8: "lens release button does not work". Maybe the lens is stuck? Maybe the shutter is released and lens is fitted to the body with uncocked shutter? (shutter is inside the lens on Bronicas). But in this case, you would be unable to see anything through the lens, because mirror would be in upper position and shutter would be shut. So, I have virtually no idea what is going on with your camera. Unfortunately.

To answer your questions:

1. yes, you should be able to trip the shutter with paperclip AND regardless of whether the camera is cocked or not, release button (and release cable pin) should still be both pushable, and not stiff.

2. The pin on my film back is also perfectly pushable when I DON'T have the dark slide inserted, regardless of whether I have film in camera, or not. And with the dark slide in - it is of course not pushable (otherwise camera interlock which doesn't allow shutter tripping with the dark slide in place would simply not work).

I would say that there's something wrong with the lens since it's not coming off and you might want to get that issue dealt with, even if you are planning to use Bronica with just one lens. Oh, don't forget one more thing - the lens will NOT come off, unless the shutter is cocked.

P.S. Since Bronica is in fact a medium format camera, this topic belongs to "medium format photography", not "large format". Hopefully the moderator will move it so more people will be able to see the thread and give you meaningful advises.

------------------

Edit: does it fire with removed back (and set to multi-exposure, of course)?

 

[wiltw]

If the film is advanced to an unused frame, AND if the shutter is cocked, the shutter release button should be depressable when BOTH conditions are met.
The film magazine with black handle slide does not have the same interlock to ensure the film slide is withdrawn as the film magazine with the gray handle film slide.

The shutter MUST BE COCKED to remove/mount a lens on the body

The inability to press shutter and the inability to remove lens BOTH indicate 'failure to have the lens shutter cocked'

 

[M-88]

But if the shutter isn't cocked, he wouldn't be able to see through the lens, viewfinder would effectively be dark and it would be easy to tell.

 

[Strudders]

Hello. Welcome to Photrio

I have read every point of what you wrote and I think that you took all the measures in order to avoid interlocks and shutter is supposed to fire properly. It is very good of you to review other threads and rule out all the possibilities. However I want to tell you that Bronica ETR will fire even with no batteries, only at 1/500 speed, because that is the only mechanical (non-electronic) shutter speed available. Still, it is very good that you checked the camera with batteries - now we know that at least "battery check" button works and the body is not completely dead... What bothers me right now is point 8: "lens release button does not work". Maybe the lens is stuck? Maybe the shutter is released and lens is fitted to the body with uncocked shutter? (shutter is inside the lens on Bronicas). But in this case, you would be unable to see anything through the lens, because mirror would be in upper position and shutter would be shut. So, I have virtually no idea what is going on with your camera. Unfortunately.

To answer your questions:

1. yes, you should be able to trip the shutter with paperclip AND regardless of whether the camera is cocked or not, release button (and release cable pin) should still be both pushable, and not stiff.

2. The pin on my film back is also perfectly pushable when I DON'T have the dark slide inserted, regardless of whether I have film in camera, or not. And with the dark slide in - it is of course not pushable (otherwise camera interlock which doesn't allow shutter tripping with the dark slide in place would simply not work).

I would say that there's something wrong with the lens since it's not coming off and you might want to get that issue dealt with, even if you are planning to use Bronica with just one lens. Oh, don't forget one more thing - the lens will NOT come off, unless the shutter is cocked.

P.S. Since Bronica is in fact a medium format camera, this topic belongs to "medium format photography", not "large format". Hopefully the moderator will move it so more people will be able to see the thread and give you meaningful advises.

------------------

Edit: does it fire with removed back (and set to multi-exposure, of course)?

Hello M-88 and thanks for the speedy response - moderator has indeed moved my post to the medium format forum so all fine there.

Had another think about the issues and am still baffled. The camera is cocked and i can see and image in the viewfinder. Still wonder if it has anything at all to do with the pins to both the cable release socket and the one on the blower left of the camera body Pic c, both appear to be stuck as assumed i could push both in with the paper clip.

I suppose that I will have to bite the bullet and track someone down to have a look at it once the virus lockdown has been lifted, although these days finding people that actually know what they are doing on Bronica's might not be easy or cheap. Just wish I could release the lens at least and have been searching for some work around to do that, even if it means some minor disassembly.

Thanks again.

 

[M-88]

This is indeed a rather odd case and I'm very curious about it. Electronic Bronicas are not so complex, anyone could disassemble and reassemble them and electronics are also easy to fix for someone with basic background and a service manual. So I'm pretty sure you can get it serviced, once all this epidemic fuss is over.

There are service manuals available for ETRSi for free (one is even on butkus.org), so if you are willing to take that step, you can do it. There are differences between ETRS and ETRSi body-wise, but they are still essentially the same camera. But please note: as someone with experience of DIY repairs of cameras, I strongly advise against such endeavor.

 

[jgboothe]

I found this from a GS-1 thread, which may offer some clues:-

"Hey Craig. I have a GS-1 body that was jammed and couldn't get the lens off. Studied the thing for about an hour (have another GS-1 body for comparision, thankfully) and finally got the lens off.

The mirror is hanging up on the return - I can give it a little help and up it comes. Seems like the innards need a little lube. I've ordered a tiny bottle of NYOIL and will see if a microscopic bit helps some of the moving surfaces. Will probably use just a bit of Naptha first.

I have an ETRSi that would hang up. A teeny bit of sewing machine oil, and I mean TEENY, applied with a toothpick, on a bearing surface fixed it right up. Hopefully I can get the GS-1 operating reliably - I really like the camera." (StevenT)

You can find the thread this was from by searching for "GS-1". Obviously it's a different camera, but all the Bronicas had a lot of similarities.

A few questions:-
Have you tried putting a back on without any film, putting it into multi-exposure mode and winding/firing?
Is the mirror in the up or down position?
With the back open, have you tried pushing the auxiliary shutter (whichever position it is in)? Obviously, don't force anything, but sometimes a small push can trip something into place.

 

[wiltw]

But if the shutter isn't cocked, he wouldn't be able to see through the lens, viewfinder would effectively be dark and it would be easy to tell.

The body & lens might have been cocked, with the second (of two) strokes returning the reflex mirror to its Down position. But if there is not film in the magazine, or the interlock pin of the back does not press into the body, the shutter still cannot be pressed!

If the lens still cannot be removed, although the reflex mirror is down and the lens is cocked so you can see thru the viewfinder, that is a puzzler...the lens ought to be removeable in this state.

I used to own the ETRS, but now have only ETRSi to try things out, and they are slightly different.

 

[M-88]

The body & lens might have been cocked, with the second (of two) strokes returning the reflex mirror to its Down position. But if there is not film in the magazine, or the interlock pin of the back does not press into the body, the shutter still cannot be pressed!

If the lens still cannot be removed, although the reflex mirror is down and the lens is cocked so you can see thru the viewfinder, that is a puzzler...the lens ought to be removeable in this state.

I used to own the ETRS, but now have only ETRSi to try things out, and they are slightly different.

:sigh:

The shutter will trip even if there is no film in camera, if user switches to multiple exposure mode. This is same for every ETR series camera. Also - OP stated there is film in magazine.

 

[wiltw]

:sigh:

The shutter will trip even if there is no film in camera, if user switches to multiple exposure mode. This is same for every ETR series camera. Also - OP stated there is film in magazine.

...which is why I stated, "the interlock pin of the back does not press into the body, the shutter still cannot be pressed": (unless the multiexposure lever is moved into the multiexpose position).

 

[moto-uno]

In reference to your earlier picture of the back of the body with the pin deep in the hole.
With either my Etrs or Etrsi when the back is removed that pin should be up out almost
flush to the body . However , even with this pin pushed in I was able to remove the lens .
Peter

 

[Strudders]

Thanks to all those that responded to my query/problem and sorry not to have been back to people but haven't been well. Nothing to do with the dreaded virus but still knocked me about a bit.

Anyway, I have had another look at the issues and still can't find a solution, the lens still refusing to release. I had hoped to use it in conjunction at least in conjunction with my Nikon D7300 DSLR as an alternative lens and using a photodiox adapter.

As things stand I will need to get it looked at by someone familiar with Bronica's but a) don't know anyone around where I live in Surrey and b) any such individula or firm will be closed for the duration.

Many thanks

 

[moto-uno]

This isn't meant as a slight (honest) , but are you in fact trying to turn the lens the wrong way to loosen it ?
With the lens facing you , the lens turns clockwise to loosen ( the exact opposite of a nut and bolt !) Peter

 

[Strudders]

Helo Peter, No slight taken but have tried it in both directions (just to see if aso going in the opposite direction freed something up) but no luck I am afraid, it is solid. I think that I need to find details of what position the pins should be in (both the cable relaese socket pus the one at the lower left of the body once the magazine is removed) as they both seem solid and posibly further in than they should be?
Thanks
Paul

 

[moto-uno]

On my Etrs body , the cable release pin is 9/64"or 3.5mm down from the edge of the body.
the end of the lens release knurled button is 7/32" or 5.5mm from the outward edge of the cylinder it moves in .
Hope this explanation is clear enough or I'll see if I can take some pics later if need be . Peter
These measurements are with the back removed .

 

[Strudders]

Hello Peter, did you manage to take any pictures of the cable release pin in its hole and if possible, the position of the pin in the hole at the lower left hand side of the camera body once the film back is removed.
I was hoping that the lockdown here in the UK would be lifted soon and I could get the camera looked at but we have at least another three weeks of it athe moment and probably longer.
thanks
Paul

 

[moto-uno]

 

[moto-uno]

If not clear enough I'll try again , but I think they should give you an idea of where the pins are with the back removed . Peter

 

[Strudders]

Thanks for that Peter and perfectly clear.

As you can see from my equivalent pictures of my ETRS, he pin to the cable release is similar to that on your's, however the one to the lower back of the camera (with the back off) shows the pin much further down. Unsure what this may indicate at the moment but it gives me a further route to follow.

many thanks
Paul

 

[ig627]

Idk if you ever fixed yours but I ran into this EXACT issue today and I’m 99% sure you’ve done what I did. Good news for you I have the solution.

What I did is I took my lens off, fired the shutter (mirror), did 2 twists on my speed grip and went to remount the lens. It wouldn’t fully seat to the mount. (I just got this camera today so I didn’t know the body had to be fully cocked to mount the lens)
Being impatient I fired the shutter again, the lens seated and I twisted it on. I did 2 more twists on my speed grip (I thought) and it appeared that my mirror was fully down, lens and body fully cocked.

WRONG.

Checkout the pics here: https://imgur.com/gallery/hQBZF1B

You can see the lens pin is trapped underneath the body pin. Even though I thought I have it 2 full twists on my speed grip, I actually only was able to do about 1 & 7/8ths, so the body was NOT 100% cocked, more like 98% cocked.

THE SOLUTION. Take a 90* object (I used a 90* push pin) and reach down inside the mount, pull the pin on the body back towards the rear and the lens pin will spring forward (you’ll need to take the viewing glass out to do this obviously). From there wind your speed grip or whatever you’re using 2% more and the body is fully cocked. At that point you can fire the shutter or release the lens.

I’m so glad I figured this out because your post is the only other post I could find online with a similar issue.

 

[moto-uno]

We're now all part of internet history . Peter

 

[Jonno85uk]

I know that my issue with my ETRS isn't quite the same (I couldn't see through the viewfinder) but I also had a problem with the shutter release mechanism when using a cable release. The winder would freeze.
I made a video about how I diagnosed and fixed it.

 

[choiliefan]

XLNT video.
Hope it solves the OP's quandary.

 

[George51]

Thank you! I was ready to perform surgery until I carefully read your thread. After I verified all the settings and removed the film back if worked! Again Thank you