Build a shutter tester for Focal Plane shutters - Cheap, Easy & it Works

[koraks]

First of all, please Niglyn, PM me, I need the code for hwid 65757120, thank you!

Welcome aboard @Spachal! Note that you can now initiate private conversations, so you can reach out to @Nyglin autonomously.

 

[OAPOli]

@Spachal a universal tester would be very nice. I also use 120 and 135 format cameras. The tricky thing is that 6x4.5 and 6x6 cameras come in both horizontal and vertical shutters. Then you have the vertical Pentax 6x7 and the horizontal 6x9 Rittreck and Graflex. In addition, you can't use a diagonal configuration because the lens aperture is too small at ~60mm.

But if you have only vertical 6x6 or 645 cameras, then yes adding two lasers/sensors could work.

 

[Niglyn]

Hi Spachal, welcome to Photrio.

Please, ask as many questions as you like & constructive feedback is always welcome.

You are correct, any terminal program will work. For simplicity I specify the Arduino IDE.
Yes, wiring up the encoder to the ESP board will allow authentication. Again for simplicity, I do not detail this in the instructions.
Yes, the Blue Button is the centre of the Encoder. I shall see if I can make this clearer in the documentation.

You can mount the sensors at any spacing you want. In the setup utility, set the spacing you have chosen (This is important for accuracy).
Service manuals often detail what spacing is to be used. This is required as they give the shutter curtain travel time (not speed) at this distance.
Common spacing is 32/20mm.
(Older firmware, selected Horizontal 32mm or vertical 20mm spacing, but later firmware allows the user to select any spacing)

Using 32mm spacing on a 120 shutter will work fine. However you will only be measuring that 32mm portion, so shutter capping will not be shown and the exposure difference will only be measured across that 32mm portion of the frame.
The choice of senor frame is yours. You could have one frame with multiple sensors and a multi-pole switch to select them, or a different sensor frame for each size.

The sensors have to be in the same plane as the shutter, i.e arranged horizontally for a horizontal shutter and vertically for a vertical shutter.
There is of course nothing stopping you holding a horizontal camera in portrait mode, providing the sensors are then vertical, i.e in the same plane as the shutter.

Yes, the Lasers should be on the rear of the camera and project out though the lens opening. You are correct, having Lasers shining from the front and into the viewfinder is a safety hazard.

If you are a dab-hand at Cad & 3d printing, what really would be useful is a 3d printed bezel for the TFT. Cutting a neat rectangular hole is difficult. A bezel overlapping the TFT by 1mm and incorporating the fixing holes would be great. Would also need a relief along the bottom edge to avoid contact with the buttons. It is something I have been hoping to make & then sell at cost to builders of The Shutter Tester, but currently do not have a 3d printer.

The basic premise has always been to keep the hardware simple, to allow anyone to build The shutter Tester. Not everyone has 3d printers or workshops to make complicated parts. Please feel free to change the hardware design, make 3d parts or a universal system. Would be great if you share photos, stl etc. If there are any firmware changes that you think would help, please let me know.

The Shutter Tester will measure leaf shutters using a single sensor. Additionally it has a new Leaf Shutter mode using two sensors and the calculation according to ic-racer's post. I only have a homemade leaf shutter, so real-world testing would be most useful.

Pass Key on it's way. Happy building )

 

[Spuri0us]

Many thanks to @Niglyn for creating an excellent guide on GitHub and a comprehensive kit list and instructions. Installation on the Arduino went great. Genuinely quite easy - I'll have to search the thread for a suitable mountig mechanism for the sensors now, I'm sure the knowledgeable people here will have posted something interesting. Most of my cameras have horizontal focal plane shutters but my FM2 has a vertical one, so a bit of experimenting is ahead I think.

Can you kindly PM me a passcode if you don't mind?

 

[Niglyn]

Many thanks to @Niglyn for creating an excellent guide on GitHub and a comprehensive kit list and instructions. Installation on the Arduino went great. Genuinely quite easy

Can you kindly PM me a passcode if you don't mind?

Hi, welcome to Photrio.

Happy to hear you found it easy to build. Many people are not familiar with microcontrollers or flashing firmware to them., so I have tried to explain things in a step-by-step process.

'Block of wood' sensor frame is quick & easy to build, will get you up & running quickly. Best to build a separate frame for horizontal and vertical shutters.

I found making a universal sensor frame, where the sensors/Lasers are arranged diagonally, is really fiddly to use, as the camera has to be aligned in both planes.

How did you hear about The shutter Tester? Would be interesting to know if it is via Instructables/Github/Photrio or other postings on the web.

Pass Key sent via DM.

 

[Spuri0us]

Happy to hear you found it easy to build. Many people are not familiar with microcontrollers or flashing firmware to them., so I have tried to explain things in a step-by-step process.

'Block of wood' sensor frame is quick & easy to build, will get you up & running quickly. Best to build a separate frame for horizontal and vertical shutters.

I found making a universal sensor frame, where the sensors/Lasers are arranged diagonally, is really fiddly to use, as the camera has to be aligned in both planes.

How did you hear about The shutter Tester? Would be interesting to know if it is via Instructables/Github/Photrio or other postings on the web.

I've tinkered around with R Pis but never with an Arduino, maybe I'll upgrade to the three sensor tester in the future but it was fun to get going.

Yes, the block of wood seems the most logical, I'll try start with that.

Google was where I found it, through the Github link, though I'm sure this thread was on the same search page.

 

[Spachal]

@koraks: Thanks, Niglyn was quicker and sent me the code in a private message.

@OAPOli: For me, the 6x6 format is the largest I'll ever need. For medium format, I only have cameras with horizontal shutters (PSix, Kiev60/80/88, and a 645 conversion). And I don't fully understand why I can't use a diagonal configuration. Do you mean the placement of the sensors? Could you please explain?

@Niglyn: Thanks again for your help and the private message with the code. It was interesting that the first code input was unsuccessful, but I probably turned the encoder at the last moment before pressing the blue button. The next input was successful, everything is activated.

Regarding the placement of lasers and sensors, my idea is to have both light sources and sensors fixed in place, placed into printed frame. This is mainly to eliminate problems that can arise if the laser is not precisely aimed at the sensor (by the way, the mentioned lasers have focusing optics, I found this out only by chance, the beam area can be adjusted by rotating the front element of the laser). The ability to set custom sensor distances in software is a great upgrade and will help a lot. I also want to point out that the laser modules mounted on the development board should really not be bent by force. I managed to destroy one module this way, or maybe I used too high a temperature for subsequent soldering and damaged the diode, it then only shone at about 5% of its power.
But I'll probably get separate cylindrical 3V laser modules with wire leads anyway, it will be a much better option for my construction. If the output voltage from the ESP32 is 3.3V, one 15 ohm resistor should be enough. I work directly in a factory producing resistors, so this will be the least of my problems :]

What will be moving is the position of the camera body. For the vertical position, I came up with using a cheap Adjustable Lift Stand For Laser Level, I've already bought it (version with rotation, but that's not necessary). The price is low, there's no point in constructing this. For horizontal placement of the camera, I'll use adjustable clamps with springs, 3D printed.

I'll also ask about the differences in measuring medium format versus 35mm film. I would like to keep everything as simple as possible, KISS. If I only had three sensors (32+20mm), how much would this affect the results of horizontal shutter times for the 6x6 and 645 format? I understand that in this case I would only be measuring the '35mm' part, would this be usable? Additional two sensors and a switch are of course possible, it's just a question of whether it's absolutely necessary.

What's also a bit of a complication is, according to what you wrote, measuring horizontal and vertical shutters. Did I understand that correctly? If I take it logically and if Sens1 is at the bottom right, SensM always in the center and Sen2 at the top left, the measurement order will always be Sens1 > SensM > Sens2. And that for both vertical and horizontal shutters, right? If the camera is always positioned so that the shutter is 36mm horizontally and 24mm vertically, it should be fine, from my point of view. Only the distance will need to be changed to 20mm. Or did that note about keeping the same plane as the shutter only apply to medium format?

As for 3D printing and the bezel for the TFT, that shouldn't be a problem. I'll design a box for mounting so that everything is located in one part, including the LCD. This will avoid the problem of having to disassemble the box and connect the components in different parts of the box. Everything will be located in the 'front cover with side panels'. Everything will be designed so that accidental contact of the wires cannot occur, I bought the buttons in a metal version (they are smaller and nicer :] ...). I would like to have the frame with the sensors and the box with the components separated, I don't want to have these two parts permanently connected. I will connect them with an RJ45 cable, eight pins will be sufficient. I'm still thinking about whether it would be appropriate to add an 18650 battery solution, but it's probably unnecessary in the end and I'll power everything via USB-C placed on ESP.

I understand that not everyone has a 3D printer, but at today's prices, 3D printing is very affordable and at least in our country there are many people who offer printing anything at a good price if they have the STL files - I assume it will be similar in other countries. In any case, if I manage to build everything according to my ideas, after fine-tuning the details, the STL models will be publicly available for free to everyone. If someone then uses it commercially, that's not my problem :]

As for leaf shutters, this measurement is not necessary for my purposes at least, I don't collect these cameras. But it would be good to have this measurement option available, either using one or two sensors. If I find a camera body with this shutter (I probably have one, I need to find out), I can either test this or send it to you, it's not that big of a problem to the UK.

One more 'little thing' occurred to me, have you thought about replacing the LCD display with a mobile phone? Everyone has one today and the LCD is probably the most expensive component. The ESP32 has a Bluetooth module, maybe it would be a really good idea to use a mobile phone as a display device. I found several projects that transmit data from the ESP32 to a mobile phone via BT. Bluetooth UART would probably be enough, basically a serial console.

 

[OAPOli]

@Spachal If you want to use a diagonal configuration with a sensible spacing (51mm), the diagonal is 72mm, which is too large for the lens opening.

I don't think it's a good idea to use the 20/32mm spacing for 6x6. Generally the curtains are accelerating and you can't extrapolate the timings reliably.

 

[Spachal]

@OAPOli: My idea was to have two sets of sensors that would switch, with a central sensor being shared.
I tried to draw it quickly, green sensors are for 35mm film (36x24mm), red for 6x6 medium format (56x56mm). Would a shutter meter be able to work correctly like this?

I still don't understand the problem with "lens opening", every lens mounted on a 6x6 must illuminate the entire 56x56mm film area, a diagonal of 79mm, right? Even the physical dimensions of the shutter are 56x56mm (measured on a Kiev-60)

 

[OAPOli]

@Spachal hopefully that clarifies what I meant. Lens aperture is ~60mm; the outside lasers would be blocked.

 

[Spachal]

OMG, please excuse my stupidity, I've always only looked at the shutter side only, that's really embarrassing :/
I just measured my Kiev-88, the maximum diagonal of the lens mount is 57.7mm...

Do you have any ideas for a technical solution to measure the entire medium format shutter? Besides shortening the sensor distances, which would mean I could simply use sensors for 35mm film (32x20mm).

 

[OAPOli]

I clustered the lasers near the centre and angled them towards the sensors. Not ideal because the measured spacing will decrease the closer you move towards the lasers.

I think one could make a "+" configuration with 5 sensors and lasers. Without modifying the code, you can swap the connections for the sensors.

 

[Spachal]

I've been thinking about possible solutions and this configuration came to mind:

• There will be 5 lasers, similar to the drawing above.
• The center laser will always be on and can also be used for single-sensor measurements.
• An on-off-on switch will toggle between the two outer lasers for 35mm film or the middle format.
• The lasers for the medium format will be angled to illuminate 32/20mm sensors.
• There will be only three sensors, shared for both 35mm film and medium format.
• The distance between the lasers and sensors must be constant for the angled lasers for the medium format to work (beam position on sensors)

It will be more complex to create fine adjustments for the laser positions and angle (especially for those with angled beams), but I already have an idea in my head. And I wanted the laser and sensor positions to be fixed before this modification anyway. Yes, the measurements will be slightly affected by the angled direction of the medium format lasers, but this distortion will be minimal for our purposes.
The only thing that will be necessary is manual adjustment of the sensor spacing (in this case, the lasers) in the ESP when changing between 35mm film and medium format.

I stopped to think about solutions like distance measurement sensors as a replacement for lasers, they probably won't be fast enough or will be too expensive (I also have sensors from Keyence, but that's a completely different price category).

 

[Niglyn]

I often get questions on why a camera shutter is not showing the correct speeds.

Sometimes people even grumble that The Shutter Tester is not working properly!! The audacity )

Here is a page from a Nikon service manual, showing the tolerances.

 

[Spachal]

Hello in the New Year, I thought I had somehow broken this thread ;] ..

In any case, I wanted to ask if anyone has already dealt with micro-adjustment of laser modules, how to precisely aim them at sensors.
I have two solutions in mind, but both are quite complex, and it's possible that there's a relatively simple solution, but I just can't see it. .If anyone has already solved this (by that I don't mean fixing the laser in place and maybe gluing it, but really the possibility of fine-tuning the beam position), please let me know. Thank you!

 

[Niglyn]

Hello in the New Year, I thought I had somehow broken this thread ;] ..

In any case, I wanted to ask if anyone has already dealt with micro-adjustment of laser modules, how to precisely aim them at sensors.
I have two solutions in mind, but both are quite complex, and it's possible that there's a relatively simple solution, but I just can't see it. .If anyone has already solved this (by that I don't mean fixing the laser in place and maybe gluing it, but really the possibility of fine-tuning the beam position), please let me know. Thank you!

Hi,
Just aim the Laser so it's red spot is central on the sensor. Good enough, job done.

The Laser spot is larger than the sensor so it does not need to be micro-accurate.

As said in my post above, with the Nikon tolerance chart, the latitude for the 'correct' speed is so great, any mucking about with Laser alignment or adjusting a camera to be spot-on, is futile.

When one first starts testing shutters, one is horrified at how inaccurate the readings are, how the result varies so much test to test. First thing that happens is to blame me for The Shutter Tester not working )

In reality, the exposure will vary shot to shot, affected by many things. Just the crude method of spring tension, viscosity of oil & grease changing with temperature, internal wear etc.

As for sensor frames, with multiple diagonal sensors & Lasers, my advise would be - Don't.
They become a pig to align as camera has to be aligned in both planes.

Better to make separate frames for horizontal and vertical shutters, with the sensors and Lasers all aligned horizontally or vertically.

 

[Spachal]

Hi @Niglyn,

Thanks for clarifying. I'm still in the design phase, currently focusing on another project (digitizing negatives), so there's still time to think about the optimal design.


As for adjusting the laser beam position, it's simple: I like things precise, so in this case, I want a narrow laser spot focused on the smallest possible sensor area (and get the highest possible light intensity, to avoid any influence of outside lighting conditions). These 6mm laser modules also include 'optics', making it possible to focus the beam very narrowly based on distance. That's why I asked if anyone already has a technical solution. If not, I'll figure something out myself.


I planned to adjust the laser direction in case it's necessary to assemble a measuring device for both 35mm film and medium format as a universal solution, but with the ability to change the distances between the lasers and sensors. For medium format, the lasers would not be perpendicular to the sensor plane but would be angled (for the reason explained by @OAPOli - small flange mount diameter of the lens).

In my profession, I also deal with the stability and variability of processes, so yes, if we're talking about a mechanical shutter and want meaningful results, it's necessary to repeat the measurements and at least average the results. I also have MiniTab, but that's a bit of an overkill tool for our purposes.

Now, my main question: how to design the layout of sensors and lasers for different types of shutters? I thought that for 35mm film, the configuration is clear, both for vertical and horizontal shutter types ("32x20" matrix), and it would be necessary to finalize the medium format measurement.

How is it in practice? Maybe I'm searching incorrectly in the documentation on GitHub or here in the forum, but could someone who already has the measurement assembled provide a suitable layout of sensors and lasers for measurement? Even just a hand sketch would be enough, I can redraw it in CAD for clarity, so that I'm at least somewhat useful.
Thanks!

 

[JRE]

Hello to all and thanks to Niglyn for this project. I think -- think! -- I'm ready to load the shutter speed program onto the ESP32. Is this the point at which I need a code for the software? Thanks!

 

[JRE]

Hello to all and thanks to Niglyn for this project. I think -- think! -- I'm ready to load the shutter speed program onto the ESP32. Is this the point at which I need a code for the software? Thanks! View attachment 388396

And here it is waiting for the code:

 

[ic-racer]

I often get questions on why a camera shutter is not showing the correct speeds.

Sometimes people even grumble that The Shutter Tester is not working properly!! The audacity )

Here is a page from a Nikon service manual, showing the tolerances.

View attachment 387935

Excellent! Realize 1.51ms is 1/662!

 

[snusmumriken]

Hello in the New Year, I thought I had somehow broken this thread ;] ..

In any case, I wanted to ask if anyone has already dealt with micro-adjustment of laser modules, how to precisely aim them at sensors.
I have two solutions in mind, but both are quite complex, and it's possible that there's a relatively simple solution, but I just can't see it. .If anyone has already solved this (by that I don't mean fixing the laser in place and maybe gluing it, but really the possibility of fine-tuning the beam position), please let me know. Thank you!

My post #178 in this thread might help you? It doesn’t deal with micro-adjustment, but it sure makes alignment easy.

 

[JRE]

And here it is waiting for the code:

Which is my way of politely but possibly not clearly asking Niglyn for a code. Thanks!

 

[Niglyn]

Which is my way of politely but possibly not clearly asking Niglyn for a code. Thanks!

Hi, sorry, only just seen this post & did not get email notification of your post #594.
Not in the office now, will send you the user key tomorrow.

 

[Spachal]

My post #178 in this thread might help you? It doesn’t deal with micro-adjustment, but it sure makes alignment easy.

Hi Jonathan, thanks, that could help, thank you!
I intend to create a separate sensor module that is independent of the measurement module. This would allow me to easily swap out the ESP32 for a breadboard with an Arduino and test the alignment of the lasers and sensors.

 

[Niglyn]

Hi Jonathan, thanks, that could help, thank you!
I intend to create a separate sensor module that is independent of the measurement module. This would allow me to easily swap out the ESP32 for a breadboard with an Arduino and test the alignment of the lasers and sensors.

Hi, The ESP32 programs exactly the same as the Arduino, so you can either have two ESP32 dev boards and swap them over,

or just load your alignment code onto the existing ESP32. With this method you would obviously need to re-flash the shutter tester code back to the ESP32

The Shutter Tester already has an alignment utility. What other alignment functionality do you need?

If there is anything particular you think is missing, I can add it, or even add your own alignment code.