Color Dye-Transfer Prints for the Modern Hobbyist - *Imbibition for For the People!*

[Photo Engineer]

Jeanette Klute and others contributed to the Kodak book on creative darkroom techniques which includes the work of her and many others doing derivatives, posterizations and other well, creative things! A must have book for those interested in this kind of stuff..

PE

 

[dyetransfer]

Hi Chris, you should get in touch with Gerry Storey, he has used DT in a creative manner. He will even hit a matrix with a hammer, or scrub it with a scouring pad!

It might be intesting to submerge a piece of unexposed matrix film at the bottom of a tray of water, disturb the water to form various wave patterns, and expose using an enlarger or flash unit. You could then superimpose several of these and print with different colors.

I sometimes paint on my matrices, but it is generally to color correct, and not an attempt at art.

Regards- Jim

 

[ric_kb]

ref post #15 -- registration: "slip sheet"

 

[holmburgers]

Jim, does Gerry have any images online? I see he's on the dye-transfer board, I might give him a shout. The wave-pattern idea is very intriguing!

Thanks for that ric_kb. And since you brought it up.. I actually picked up a film punch for $10 (ok, $11... he was short a dollar for change) on Craigslist this weekend. It's an Arkay and it came with a registration tab and it's in absolutely mint condition. Good things apparently do come to those who wait.

 

[holmburgers]

Just won a box of Kodak Dye-Transfer paper from the 50's on eBay for $27. 25 sheets of 8x10" surface G. This will be great for testing!

 

[holmburgers]

Latest results... nothing new really, just more splotches

Not a whole lot of progress has been made, but here are my latest offerings to share.

For this round of experimentation I took a matrix-film that has had an extinction dye added and spirit sensitized with 90% isopropyl alcohol & 5% potassium dichromate (1:1, IIRC.. it's written down somewhere). The composition of the coating is 6% knox gelatin, 5% McCormicks yellow food coloring (primarily tartrazine, or yellow 5) and 1% sorbitol, coated with a comb on PF subbed melinex.

The 1st scan is a transfer made to Kodak DT paper for 10 minutes with Kodak Magenta dye/buffer; with a prior rinse in 2% acetic acid. The 2nd scan is the dyed matrix that has been allowed to dry out, leaving a magenta transparency.

My biggest problem is this damned splotchiness, which appears to be portions where gelatin has been removed. I haven't quite figured out the problem yet, and this seems to be the worst example so far, so I don't know if my new sensitizing method didn't go so well, or if my etching procedure is giving trouble.

Also, it appears that the matrix is way too high in contrast, and I probably need to increase my dichromate amount, which might get tricky with potassium dichromate.

I'm wondering if any carbon printers have seen similar patterns, or if any dye-transfer printers recognize it either.

At any rate, last night I coated 7 matrix sheets (largest batch to date), and I intend to do some woodshedding to get to the bottom of this.

 

[holmburgers]

p.s. Both of these came out of my scanner (presumably) unaltered. The difference in density on the matrix versus the transfer is interesting.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Note that only about 1/2 of the spots are located in the same place on both images. This means that there are probably at least 2 problems involved.

PE

 

[holmburgers]

Good eyes Ron.

I should add that on the transfer there are areas of really poor transfer due to simply not having enough of a "running start" for my print roller (particularly near the holes) which could be what you're referring to.

You're right that it doesn't make analysis any easier..

 

[Photo Engineer]

I see the problem in the step chart away from the holes.

PE

 

[holmburgers]

You're right Ron...

But jeez, they make it sound so easy in the patents!

Ok, full disclosure:

The etching procedure was, etching in 104°F water, changed about 3 times, then plunged into 90% IPA to dehydrate it, then 5% sodium sulfite (kinda old though...), cool water wash & rinse in distilled water.

Honestly, OTOMH I can't remember if I did a pre-soak before the hot water etch and I probably should've. Also I think my procedure next time should be a little different: 68° water pre-soak, 104° water etch, 68° water set, 5% sodium sulfite clear, 68° water wash for several minutes, distilled water rinse and finally dehydration in 90% IPA.

As for the transfer, I soaked the DT paper for 10 minutes or more in cool water (15°C roughly... and yes, I'm mixing my units...) and squeegeed flat on glass - no conditioner to speak of.

I guess I need to get my procedure down pat & work out all the mechanical/manipulatory faults so that we can really see what's going on.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Did you use the DT paper conditioner? Or, anything like it? There is a set sequence of events here to follow to insure even transfer. Jim Browning is your source for all of this.

PE

 

[flighttime]

Just joining in...

I (Greg Lucas) worked at Tartaro Color back around 1971 and was reading this thread with many memories of those days. I admit, I jumped to the last page without reading all of the posts so I don't know if anyone followed up on the idea of a data storage site for keeping at least the facts of DT alive. I'd be happy to contribute in any way if that's ongoing or still being considered.

 

[holmburgers]

Howdy Greg, thanks for jumpin' in!

Yeah, there's a lot to read on this thread, so I don't blame you for not reading it all. I guess I'd have to suggest that posting here is a great place, if not the best place, to preserve information for the future. I think the APUG archives will only become more valuable as time goes on, and Sean and the rest of the APUG support staff are very committed to keeping servers online for many, many years to come.

However, David Doubley's website has an excellent archive of dye-transfer information, including what appears to be all of Bob Pace's Keeping Pace newsletters. There's so much good info there, and I'm sure I've only scratched the surface.

Of course there's also Jim Browning's website, and the Yahoo! Dye-Transfer group. Honestly though, I think APUG is becoming or has already become the "clearing house" for all things analog. The platform is modern, easy to navigate and search, and is easily accessible to everyone on Earth. The Yahoo! group, although a very valuable archive in its own right, sees significantly less traffic and is more cumbersome to navigate in my opinion.

My point, I guess, is an invitation to share your knowledge here!

And Ron, sorry I never saw your post from last year. No, I used no paper conditioner of any sort, just a water pre-soak and squeegeeing. One of my problems with uneven dying could be related to agitation while my matrix was in the bath, and by 'agitation' I'm actually referring to the complete lack of any movement! My mistake.. and perhaps this could have something to do with my problems.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced of that. When viewed obliquely against light, these spots of no dye appear to relate to my gelatin relief; or in other words, I think there is no gelatin, hence no dye capture. I'm starting to wonder if my sensitizing procedure is to blame.

Since we're exposing through the base, we need the innermost gelatin to be completely sensitive to UV, a requirement that is never asked of carbon transfer printing where only the outermost gelatin needs sensitized. Obviously it works ok, because most of the image is there, but I seriously suspect that incomplete sensitization and consequent areas of solubilization might be partly to blame for my fugly matrices.

 

[holmburgers]

Check out eBay item # 120853419375 (just search that number), or go here.

It's an amateur dye-transfer print (not very attractive), but it has an interesting RGB graph included; evidence of the printer's work with the process.

An interesting artifact...

 

[VesaL]

Hello!
Altough this discussion is on the older side, it still is fascinating. I have a set of Eastman A.B.C dyes in powder form, that states to dissolve the dye vial contents to 500cc of distilled water. Unfortunately I do not have knowlegde of what kind of buffer solutions /formula were used with these sets of A.B.C dyes. There is manual called "'Colour Printing with Eastman Wash-Off Relief Film" but unfortunately I have not found it online. Some of them very rarely have been on sale via ebay. If anyone has a copy of this vintage booklet, I would be very grateful for the copy.