Contax IIa any thoughts?

Vitoret · Jul 29, 2015

Recently i've been very intrigued by Contax IIa camera.. i love rangefinders cameras but i don't want to step in Leica territory (yet!)

Would you recommend this beauty?

I there anybody who owns it and want to share some thoughts on it?

Xmas · Jul 29, 2015

Try a Kiev first.

A IIa or II are pretty cameras whereas a Nikon or Canon more practical rangefinders of that era.

cuthbert · Jul 29, 2015

I've got a Contax IIa and a IIIa, the latter goes for less money than the former because it's prettier.

They are both nice cameras with very good lenses (I have a Sonnar 1.5 on one and a Biogon 35 mm f2.8 on the other, both W.Germany), much more advanced than any Leica III, very sophisticated vertical travelling shutter that needs good curtains to work effectively.

The "Contax grip" allows the camera to be operated just with your right hand but I find the wheel a little heavy to operate.

The Kiev is another beast: it is a Made in USSR version of the pre-war Contax II and III, the Soviet took over the drawings and the factory so the new Zeiss organisation in W.Germany had to design a completely new camera that looks like the old one but it's fundamentally different, for instance the IIa/IIIa can't use the pre-war Biogon and the coated Jupiter 12 because it's smaller than a II/III Kiev.

Kievs were produced for a long, long time, the first ones until 1956 are perfectly equivalent in fit and finish to the pre-war Contaxes, then they were pushed to produce more and quality degraded until in the 70s the finish was embarassing.

In both cases try to get a new one because CLA is expensive: I've seen one completely disassembled and it's a fantastically complicated camera.

Vitoret · Jul 29, 2015

wow thank you for the great infos

Does the Kiev and Contax have different lens mount?

benjiboy · Jul 29, 2015

Vitoret said:
wow thank you for the great infos

Does the Kiev and Contax have different lens mount?

No it's the same.

cuthbert · Jul 29, 2015

Vitoret said:
wow thank you for the great infos

Does the Kiev and Contax have different lens mount?

Kiev 2 = Contax II made in Soviet Ukraine. Completely carry over.

Here there are two interesting articles on this complex story:

http://www.zeisshistorica.org/sample.html

http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm

There also is a picture of the superlens, the Rekord 0.9, that if it could have made in production it would have become the fastest camera lens ever.

Kievs, Contax II/III and Contax IIA/IIA all have the same mount, that is also shared by some Nikons if memory serves me correctly.

Dali · Jul 29, 2015

Vitoret said:
wow thank you for the great infos

Does the Kiev and Contax have different lens mount?

They are similar in blueprints but there are some incompatibilities between old Kiev cameras and recent lenses.

cuthbert · Jul 29, 2015

Dali said:
They are similar in blueprints but there are some incompatibilities between old Kiev cameras and recent lenses.

Never heard this.

cliveh · Jul 29, 2015

I own one and although I have never put a film through it, I bought it because I liked the design and am sure the Sonnar lens is superb. I believe it also has one of the widest range finder separation distances between the two windows than any other camera which should provide very accurate focusing. I would suggest that it will be an excellent camera to use and will produce negatives as good as any Leica. From a tactile point of view, it feels good to use and shoot.

Dali · Jul 29, 2015

cuthbert said:
Never heard this.

Helios 103 are known to be tricky to mount on old Kiev. I experienced it with a 1957 Kiev 2.

Here is the warning posted on FEDKA site:

"Please note: the Helios-103 was apparently made to different tolerances and though it fits nicely on all newer Kievs (from the 60's and up) I had difficulties mounting it on the early Kievs and prewar Contax cameras. I was always able to mount it, but it required some wiggling and, sometimes, more force than one would anticipate.

I had no problem mounting this Helios-103 on a prewar Contax III, but I had to mention this potential problem."

Hence my comments that differents mounts can be identical in appearence but slightly different in reality, different enough to create some issues.

cuthbert · Jul 29, 2015

Not familiar with the Hellio 103, it's a little known lens. Did you have the same problemi with the modernised Jupiter 8M as well?

Xmas · Jul 29, 2015

cuthbert said:
Not familiar with the Hellio 103, it's a little known lens. Did you have the same problemi with the modernised Jupiter 8M as well?

It may be sample to sample variation my Helious is ok on Kiev or Contax. They were low volume. They are type IV summicron clones.

The worst problem are the J12s some (nearly all) of which

- either don't mount freely
- or don't focus freely

Even if you set camera and lens at infinity, before mounting, - on any Kiev or Contax II.

They need dissembly and reassembly and a special tool. They are ok afterwards.

Nikon and Contax use the same mount but different rangefinder calibration so you can interchange wides ok but normal or longer blurry... The J12 embellish ring may score Nikon face plates take care.

The J12 and prewar Biogon won't mount on post war IIa cameras instant optic damage, they may be ok on Nikons

4season · Jul 29, 2015

Really enjoyed those historical articles, thanks for sharing the links!

For better or worse, I purchased a 1970s Kiev 4 from a forum member the other day and will hope to be taking delivery by the end of the week.

For years I've been intrigued by the Zeiss Contax, and have toyed with the idea of buying an early postwar Kiev, a genuine Contax or a Nikon. But in the end decided that even a real if imperfect Kiev might be lots better than the genuine Contax which never got purchased! Who knows? It may wind up being all that I need to scratch this particular itch.

Gabrioladude · Jul 29, 2015

let me add a few comments
hopefully my pictures will show up (or in lieu of simply follow the links)

the first is a picture of my Contax II and IIa together
the second is a picture of my Contax II beside the Russian equivalent a Kiev 4

it is the Kiev 4 which is the same as the Contax II

the Contax IIa has the 50mm Sonnar f1.5 the Contax II has the uncoated 50mm Sonnar f2
the Kiev 4 has the Jupiter 12

they are beautiful cameras but prone to mechanical problems in particular the shutter
I purchased my Contax II on ebay and had it CLA'd
worked great but one year later the shutter ribbons gave way

the Contax IIa was my father's camera so I have an emotional attachment to it
I know my father had it CLA'd while he owned it
and I also had to have it CLA'd because the shutter speeds were off
it worked great for many years
but now the mirror in the rangefinder has appeared to come loose, so that needs to be repaired

have never owned a Leica, and only shot "simple" rangefinders aside from these
but I personally always found it easier to shoot with an SLR, never really took to an RF

https://flic.kr/p/6o2FeU

https://flic.kr/p/6o2FeU

cuthbert · Jul 30, 2015

Xmas said:
It may be sample to sample variation my Helious is ok on Kiev or Contax. They were low volume. They are type IV summicron clones.

To be honest I was always intrigued by the Helios 103 and I would have liked to procure one, but it was never made available in L39 mount, I assume it was an exclusive of Kieve Arsenal.

Checking the optical formula it doesn't look like a clone of the Summicron but a typical Soviet Double Gauss (Helios) design:

Summicron:

Helios 103:

For the J12 I'm surprised to hear it creates problems on the Kiev, I have the lens in L39 and works fine in all my Soviet RF and Leicas besides of course the M5.

Trask · Jul 30, 2015

I have Contax and Kiev cameras, and it's obvious that the Contax is of superior construction. I have shot my Contax with the Zeiss 21mm, 35mm, 50mm and 135mm lenses, and all produce excellent results that compare well with what I get with Leicas using similar-era glass. The Contax finder is less sophisticated than an M-series Leica, but using external viewfinders never bothered me much. In terms of reliability, I bought my Contax probably 12-15 years ago, had Eddie Smolov do a CLA on it (no idea what happened to Eddie, sorry to say), and it soldiers on without a hitch. The Voigtlander lenses produced to fit Nikon RF cameras will fit the Contax IIa, but as noted it's best to stick with the wide angles; I have never used my 25mm or 85mm Voigtlander lenses on my Contax so I can't report results -- but they do fit OK.

Xmas · Jul 30, 2015

cuthbert said:
To be honest I was always intrigued by the Helios 103 and I would have liked to procure one, but it was never made available in L39 mount, I assume it was an exclusive of Kieve Arsenal.

Checking the optical formula it doesn't look like a clone of the Summicron but a typical Soviet Double Gauss (Helios) design:

Summicron:

Helios 103:

For the J12 I'm surprised to hear it creates problems on the Kiev, I have the lens in L39 and works fine in all my Soviet RF and Leicas besides of course the M5.

Mander (the Leica designers) got his PhD for the three plane surfaces in the double Gauss design with high refractive glass, it reduces the number of things the production engineer needs to control, gives good micro contrast.

The Contax mount is very complex for external mount lenses.

yogurt · Apr 28, 2023

Hi all! Hope this forum is still somewhat active. I just inherited this old Contax (I believe it is a iia) and ordered a Carl Zeiss Sonnar f2 Jena for it in Contax RF mount. I tried to attach photos of the camera and the lens, but the photos were to big. My trouble is with the black plastic/metal piece inside, which covers up where the internal bayonet mount is. I'm not sure if this piece can be taken out (and if so, how?), or if this is a variant of the camera? I've tried to find other cases of this particular piece in other Contax iia's, and haven't found anything.

Any help would be very much appreciated!

Neil Morgan · Apr 30, 2023

yogurt said:
Hi all! Hope this forum is still somewhat active. I just inherited this old Contax (I believe it is a iia) and ordered a Carl Zeiss Sonnar f2 Jena for it in Contax RF mount. I tried to attach photos of the camera and the lens, but the photos were to big. My trouble is with the black plastic/metal piece inside, which covers up where the internal bayonet mount is. I'm not sure if this piece can be taken out (and if so, how?), or if this is a variant of the camera? I've tried to find other cases of this particular piece in other Contax iia's, and haven't found anything.

Any help would be very much appreciated!

Reduce your picture size to no more than 1000px's in any direction and try posting them again, it will be the best way to get help.

Strembicki · May 1, 2023

Vitoret said:
Recently i've been very intrigued by Contax IIa camera.. i love rangefinders cameras but i don't want to step in Leica territory (yet!)

Would you recommend this beauty?

I there anybody who owns it and want to share some thoughts on it?

I have one, it was gifted to me and works. I have this great older repair guy who fixes all my film cameras, he did a pre war Roliflex, a shutter on my 8x10 lens, a Nikon F2 rebuild and recently my Nikon S4. He told me not to just get a CLA unless its broken, it seems it has a very complicated shutter arrangement that hard to work on. Other than that my biggest issue is the film advance, you have no lever but turn a knob, its more of a pain than you'd think. Loading film in it is a little tricky but workable in the field. Great glass, in fact I'm using the 50mm on my Nikon S4.

markjwyatt · May 1, 2023

The Contax iia is one of my favorite 35mm cameras. Sounds like there may be a body cap on it, but keep in mind that the Contax iia (and Contax ii as well as iii/iiia, and Contax I) have a metal vertical travel focal plane shutter also, so until we see pictures, I am not sure what you are referring to.

It is a very precise camera, and if it is working well it feels precise. True, it does not have a wind lever, but to me not having a rewind crank is a bigger issue. But given all that, I still really enjoy shooting the iia.

yogurt · May 5, 2023

Neil Morgan said:
Reduce your picture size to no more than 1000px's in any direction and try posting them again, it will be the best way to get help.

@Neil Morgan let me know if those photos are clear and helpful! Anybody know what that black smooth metal cover between the focus ring and the shutter is? Haven’t seen it on any other contax ii’s

Thanks for any help all!

pthornto · May 6, 2023

That does not look right. It appears you have something in there that does not belong. You should be able to see the bayonet inside (three pieces of metal in the mount around the inside of the hole). I'll see if I can upload a picture. Does that black piece that extends back to the shutter move at all? I wonder if someone tried to tinker with it and got something stuck.

guangong · May 6, 2023

I have two Contax IIa cameras plus a bunch of lenses. It should be noted that the IIa has a completely redesigned more robust shutter compared with original Contax. A relatively small rf camera but often difficult to handle for rapid shooting. Its success was due to the superior quality of its lenses compared to the competition. With postwar introduction of the Summicron and Japan’s access to German optical patents, Contax’s had little advantage while being very expensive.
My own opinion is that the Contax was designed by engineers, while Leica was designed by users.
Zeiss pulled out of camera market because it couldn’t compete with Japan.
However, Zeiss Foundation founded Zeiss Ikon in order to rescue German camera industry and cameras were not a primary concern. The Zeiss Foundation has many other scientific research interests.

awty · May 6, 2023

yogurt said:
@Neil Morgan let me know if those photos are clear and helpful! Anybody know what that black smooth metal cover between the focus ring and the shutter is? Haven’t seen it on any other contax ii’s

Thanks for any help all!

Not sure what the insert is but you need to remove. Lens normally comes off by turning clockwise. You may have to take the back off fire in bulb and hold the shutter open while you push it out from the inside.

Contax IIa any thoughts?

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