Developing prints by spraying the chemicals on the paper

[gone]

I have this big fiber paper. The trays I bought will fit the paper once I cut it down to the 35mm and 6x9 full frame format, but I hate wasting the extra paper. 16x20 is not a format I particularly like, but it might be fun to print something that size just to see.

I was reading how people have used a sponge technique in the tub for large paper sizes, and someone mentioned spraying the developer, stop bath and fixer on. They said it was surprisingly economical. This information came at an opportune time, as I have been spraying the house w/ Boracare for a termite problem, so I have a sprayer for the developer. I could round up a few more small sprayers like you mist plants with for the other chemicals. Has anyone done this? Would it work? If not, how about the sponge idea? You gotta wonder if it would be difficult to get the chemicals on there evenly, but I don't know that, it's just a guess.

 

[frank]

I've done selective spraying of developer and then regular trays for stop/fixer/wash. At least for developer, it works. Biggest concern would be to get sufficient fixing for permanence, IMO.

 

[gone]

Thanks Frank. I suppose I could see-saw the paper in the somewhat too small trays to make sure the fixer saturates in, or really saturate the paper in the tub w/ a sponge. This is just a trial run. If the lenses I have on the enlarger, and the enlarger itself, works well for 16x20 I will invest in proper trays.

 

[cramej]

Wallpaper trays are also used for large prints.

It would be worth the money to buy a new sprayer for the developer. You will likely not be able to get all of the Boracare residue out of the sprayer even with an acetone rinse. I have worked with pesticides and herbicides in research ag and you never use those containers for anything else especially plastic ones.

 

[gone]

I thought about that. It's a pretty inert pesticide, just ethylene glycol and boric acid, but a new sprayer is probably a good idea. If I used the old sprayer, at least the fiber prints might be termite proof :} Actually, the Boracare doesn't kill on contact, they have to ingest it, so they could still theoretically eat the print. Florida is the bug capital of the known universe it seems.

Maybe I'll just spring for the wall paper trays and take back the plastic bins I have while they're still new.

 

[frank]

Processing tubes are very economical with chemicals. You may be able to make one (without the daylight capacity) using a proper diameter plastic pipe section.

 

[gone]

I have that developing tube idea on the backburner if all else fails. All I've ever used is trays, so I'm more comfortable w/ that. I read about someone using a trough, but you use a lot of chemicals that way. Probably good for ultra large prints like mural size.

 

[bdial]

It would work, but it would probably be pretty messy, and I expect that you'd want to wear a respirator to protect your lungs from overspray. I don't think you'd save anything in the amount of chemicals you use. After all, the developer will need continuous replenishment, for example. I don't think you'd be able to just spray the whole surface once and be done with it.
Another low-cost occasional technique is to see-saw the paper in window box liners.

 

[gone]

Just looked at the wallpaper trays online and they're shaped like deep troughs. Don't think they would work well for 16x20 because you would use a ton of chemicals getting it filled up. I'll try the spray/sponge idea and see how it goes, and as Frank pointed out, make sure I get adequate fixer into the paper.

 

[frank]

How about a garbage bag, made of clear plastic so you can sort of see what's what under the red safelight. Use your hand outside the bag to swoosh the developer around, drain and pour in an amount of the next chemical. It'd be a weird way of keeping a small amount of the chemicals in contact with the paper.

 

[gone]

I think you're right bdial. Maybe this is an idea if you don't have anything else available, but I do have the 4 plastic storage trays I bought from Walmart that will hold a 13X19 piece of paper, which is pretty much full frame of 35mm and 6x9. Maybe this spray/sponge idea is more for emergency usage.

 

[gone]

I like the way you think outside the box (or inside the garbage bag) Frank. That idea has merit, but this thought exercise is pointing towards cutting down the paper to do it "right", and if it works, then buy or make the right size trays for the right size paper next time. Often times I'm just too DIY for my own good.

The enlarger lens boards are already homemade, the lenses are being held on w/ plastic jar lids that I cut a hole in and self threaded onto the lenses, and the easel is a top off a glass topped coffee table that I glued a jig onto for alignment. Maybe I'd better quit while I'm behind and just buy what I need at this point. Still, I like the sponge idea, or even better, that clear bag idea. You just KNOW something bad could possibly happen though, like a tear in the bag, or a leak somewhere. I have that sort of luck.

 

[frank]

Figuring out possible but unorthodox solutions to problems is an interesting and enjoyable exercise.

 

[Nige]

Years ago I use the wallpaper trough method and from memory I tried using just one trough (since that's all Dad had!), it's a bit of a nightmare in that once you've see-sawed the paper in the developer you needed to do something with it while you prepared the trough for the next chemical... I lay them in the bath since I was using the bathroom as the darkroom. Think I gave them a rinse in there too (honestly Mum, it doesn't hurt the bathtub!). With all this moving the paper, it was very easy to add marks/dints/links into the paper. Using a rubbish bag would worry me in this regard not too mention as you say, if you spring a leak...

recently, I've been doing 20x24's using the 1 tray, 3 bucket method. I bought a proper tray but I'm sure a substitute could be found/made, the only caution I would make is you need to be able to empty it into your bucket. I lift and pour but with 4 litres of chemistry that takes a bit of concentration to make sure it pours into the bucket ok. The beauty of this system is you don't touch your print until it's ready to dry.

So, what I'm really saying is the paper easy to damage and if your buying it, expensive in large sizes, so don't cheap out too much on the processing method if it's likely to compromise the end result (the print!).

 

[Europan]

Advise against spraying methods because you’d leave the decomposed substances in the layer. The developing agent(s) are being oxidized while the silver becomes reduced, REDOX reactions. Within baths the chemicals can exchange in and out the photographic gelatin. Worse still, you won’t have real fixation due to the fact that the cracked down silver salts are not dissolved out. Prints will turn brown to black sooner or later, ugly crap.

 

[ann]

Goggle. Chemical painting. Has been done for many years

 

[bdial]

These folks did pretty well using improvised equipment for a large print (a negative, actually).
http://www.legacyphotoproject.com/the-great-picture/facts/


highlights;
Neg 107 feet x 31 feet
80 liters of emulsion
600 gallons of developer
1200 gallons of fixer
Washed with fire hoses
Tray 114 feet x 35 feet x 6 inches

 

[Ian Grant]

A 20x16 print is a bit small for spray developing ect. I used to use spray processing and washing commercially for large images all the time, the images could be anything from 2ft to 15ft long and up to 5ft high.

On a print too large for a tray I'd sponge develop it, it's more economic than spraying and is better for fixing as well. It's how I processed some 24x20 inch prints in a small darkroom a few years ago on Agfa Record Rapid (which was FB).

Ian

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I have this big fiber paper. The trays I bought will fit the paper once I cut it down to the 35mm and 6x9 full frame format, but I hate wasting the extra paper. 16x20 is not a format I particularly like, but it might be fun to print something that size just to see.

I was reading how people have used a sponge technique in the tub for large paper sizes, and someone mentioned spraying the developer, stop bath and fixer on. They said it was surprisingly economical. This information came at an opportune time, as I have been spraying the house w/ Boracare for a termite problem, so I have a sprayer for the developer. I could round up a few more small sprayers like you mist plants with for the other chemicals. Has anyone done this? Would it work? If not, how about the sponge idea? You gotta wonder if it would be difficult to get the chemicals on there evenly, but I don't know that, it's just a guess.

I wouldn't want to be in the same room breathing when you are spraying developer but why so complicated?16x20 trays are cheap or probably free these days

 

[Jim Jones]

I used a Mitchell Color Canoe (there was a url link here which no longer exists) when making very few prints. They come in different sizes. After removing the bail (which merely makes paper removal easier) an 11x14 Canoe requires about 1.5 ounces of chemicals which I dumped after one use.

An acquaintance improvised a plastic lined frame on the floor and used a swab to distribute chemicals on murals up to six feet long. For this, exposure has to be precise for the long developing time required for even development.

 

[Steve Roberts]

Figuring out possible but unorthodox solutions to problems is an interesting and enjoyable exercise.

.....so how about the OP dunking the termites' feet in dev, stop and fix and having them walk all over the paper???
Steve

 

[frank]

Or a cat, or a dog. Or a sponge cut into the shape of an animal's footprint.

But just for the developer. Stop/fix/wash in trays.

 

[MartinP]

A cheap-and-cheerful tray that would hold the paper, and be fine for sponging on the chemicals, would be the leak-catcher trays that are intended for going underneath washing machines. Too floppy for sloshing chemicals around, but can be easily placed on a rigid board to allow emptying after using the sponges for each stage.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I wouldn't want to be in the same room breathing when you are spraying developer but why so complicated?16x20 trays are cheap or probably free these days

+1

In addition to the primary problem of breathing the chemicals do you want developer and fixer particles all over you darkroom where they can contaminate film and paper for months to come? Really a very dumb idea.

 

[frank]

Since the chemicals are in solution, I don't see the problem of inhaling or contamination as long as you aren't having a super soaker fight in the darkroom with that spray bottle.