Does the ISO setting on my camera have to match my film?

[h4rr13t]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to this forum and to analog photography in general. The camera I'm shooting with is a Pentax ME.
Yesterday I finally learned how to adjust the ISO setting on it. It was set at 200 ISO and I would make the red marker sit in front of the "1/2x" to shoot a 100 ISO film, which worked out okay-ish. You can see the setting in the picture below.

Now, I've learned how to adjust the ISO setting properly.

I have a few questions on this now.
1. Does it matter if I use 100 x 1 or 200 x 1/2?
2. I read the manual and it says only to use the adjustments if you have a really dark or really light background. How do I use this to my advantage?
3. Do I have to shoot a 400 ISO film on the 400 ISO setting or could I shoot it with the setting at, for example, 100 ISO, because it is lighter outside than I expected?

All help and advice is appreciated, I'm trying to learn as much as I can!
Harriet

 

[R.Gould]

While learning I would suggest that you always shoot film at the box speed, that is if it says 400 on the box set the camera to 400, with color film always set the camera to the stated speed, remember the meter will set the camera for the speed it is set to, using a different iso will result in over/under exposed negatives, later on, especialy if you shoot black and white you will find that you will find your own film speed setting for the film, for instance, for fomapan 400, the film I mostly use I set the camera at 250, in fact for most 400 iso film I will set the film speed down to 250/200 and develop for the speed I have set

 

[ronnies]

So in general yes film and camera should match ISO.

And to get correct exposure with 100 film and the ISO set to 200 you should have set the compensation to 2x not 1/2x.

Ronnie

 

[Frank53]

The result will be the same, but it’s easier to understand when you match the iso settings in that little windom with the iso on the film box en only use 1x etc if you want to over- or under expose some frames on a film on purpose. If you want under- or over expose the whole film you can change the iso setting in the window accordingly.
Regards,
Frank

 

[138S]

1. Does it matter if I use 100 x 1 or 200 x 1/2?

It's exactly the same for your camera, which is a superb one with amazing manual feel !!

A very automated camera, (say a late model SLR) in matricial mode, it may do different things when using also film latitude that is encoded in the DX cartridge, not sure to what extent... but for your camera it's the same.

2. I read the manual and it says only to use the adjustments if you have a really dark or really light background. How do I use this to my advantage?

The ME meter is Center-Weighted. This means that light is metered in the center of the frame and also in the rest, imagine you have two separated readings, the good one for the image center and the good one for the rest. Then the camera averages those two readings but it is a ponderated average that gives more importance to the center reading.

In complex situations get close to the subject to make the subject fill all the frame, so you for sure get the good exposure for your subject. Then frame the background alone to know the good exposure for it. Then decide the exposure tou want, instead having an exposure calculated in a certain way by te camera you have the two exposures, for subject and for background, then you decide exposure knowing how under/over exposed subject and banckround will be.

3. Do I have to shoot a 400 ISO film on the 400 ISO setting or could I shoot it with the setting at, for example, 100 ISO, because it is lighter outside than I expected?

No...

When you set the ISO you tell the camera how sensitive is the film you have loaded, so the camera can calculate the exposure depending on the light it receives from the secene.

If you set the ISO speed then, by norms, all the scene spots that are up to 3.3 stops underexposed are recorded, with less quiality as you are close of 3.3 underexposure (get close to any spot to fill the frame with it to know what particular exposure it would require, and compare to your settings in the camera)

Always remember that 3.3 stops underexposure (from ISO) is the "Speed Point" , the point in what the film "starts to record" the image. Processing may vay a bit that , but not much. Think that those spots at -1.5 are well recorded, usually, but from -2 to -3 iquiality may start to suffer, at -4 you have usually nothing recorded.

With negative film you may usually overexpose by half stop of 1 stop as a safety factor if the shadows in the scene are deep and important for you. With slides (Provia, Velvia, Ektachrome) a bit it's the counter, overexposure is what usually harms as highlights can be blown.

Regards, have a lot of fun !

 

[removed account4]

Sorry to tell you the answer is sometimes...

 

[h4rr13t]

In complex situations get close to the subject to make the subject fill all the frame, so you for sure get the good exposure for your subject. Then frame the background alone to know the good exposure for it. Then decide the exposure tou want, instead having an exposure calculated in a certain way by te camera you have the two exposures, for subject and for background, then you decide exposure knowing how under/over exposed subject and banckround will be.

(Edited, because I finally understood how shutter speed and apature work)
Thank you very much for your advice, thats actually really useful. I'll try my best to make that work

 

[138S]

My camera always decides the shutter speed for me, at least a bit. .... but my camera always adjusts the shutter speed accordingly

With the ME you only can force Manual mode in 1/100 and Bulb, but with the other speeds you may use the Exposure control from 1/4x to 4x to underexpose of overexpose 2 stops, a 4 stops range, so you have an indirect manual control to set the exposure you want in that range.

So yes, "always adjusts the shutter speed accordingly" , but you may esily overide the camera from -2 to +2.

If this is not enough then you may also modify the ISO rating, imagine that your film is ISO 400 and you want to overexpose by 4 stops: you set ISO 100 and 2x. So have an "indirect" manual mode, to set the exposure you want.

Is this "suggested" shutter speed that which I'm supposed to look at for the subject and background?

Yes... the camera calulates speed metering by averaging all the scene, but the metering in the center has more weight in the decision, this can be a bit confusing when you want to know how each spot in the scene will result. But if you frame a in the way that only a uniform area of the scene is seen in the viewfinder then you know what exposure was the good one for that area.

Let me say an example, in a landscape 1/3 of the scene is the sky, the rest are mountains, the camera is to fire (say) 1/250... but you want to know: how the sky will be exposed ? No problem, just point the camera framing only the sky, if camera says 1/000 this says that when you frame the real scene and the camera shots 1/250 the sky will result 2 stops overexposed...

Then you think... oh, I'm using Velvia and 2 stops overexposure is too much for the sky !!! No problem, you set 1/2x in the dial and your camera will shot 1/500, so you will overexpose the sky by 1 stop,

in a similar way you may frame the mountains alone to know what is their perfect exposure when framed alone, so you know how the mountains will result. With negative film your priority is not underexposing too much your shadows, with slides it's the counter, highlights are easy damaged if overexposed.

And thank you so much for your reply to my third question, I don't understand a word of it apart from the "No", so I just won't do that Maybe I'll understand it one day when I've learned more.

Don't worry you will learn all that quite soon !!!

You don't have to modify the ISO setting because in the exterior there is more light, the camera itself modifies the speed to get the film well exposed. You have to set ISO that is stamped in the box to say the camera how it has to calculate the good speed, as film can be more or less sensitive to light with the ISO sensitiveness setting (for your particular film) the camera will be able to calculate the good exposure.

The "3 stops" shadow latitude is next: what underexposed more than 3 stops it will not be recorded !!!!

Imagine you point and shot a landscape with sun in the framing, the camera fires 1/1000. Then you point to certain shadows (say inside a forest) and it reads 3 stops lower, say 1/100, this area won't be recorded much, whith negative film, what underexposed more than 2 stops will loss quality, what underexposed more than 3 stops it won't be recorded.

See this:

https://petapixel.com/2018/02/05/test-reveals-exposure-limits-kodak-portra-400-film/

 

[ic-racer]

Many older cameras had no way of knowing what film was in the camera. So if you adjust the ASA dial for some special metering problem and forget to put it back, you might forget what film is in the camera (I would). So, as you have figured out, the +4,+2, etc marks let you do any special metering you want and still can keep the ASA set for what film is actually in the camera.

 

[pbromaghin]

Shooting film cameras (which don't have that computer to do your thinking for you) is complicated enough. Just set the film speed and forget all that other stuff. Film photography is a never-ending learning experience, so don't overwhelm yourself with details yet. I've been doing it for 50 years and keep finding more and more that I don't know.

 

[MattKing]

Welcome to Photrio.
The ISO/ASA dial tells the camera's meter how light sensitive the film is.
The exposure adjustment feature allows you to tell the camera's meter what sort of temporary over-riding adjustment you would like to make for a particular subject or lighting condition. Normally you would adjust that as you go, to fine tune individual results. Of course you need to learn a bit before that works well. Until then, leaving things set to "normal" will often give pleasing results.
The other advantage of the ISO/ASA dial is that it supplies a good clue as to what film is actually in the camera. That is more important for those of us who have a few too many cameras, and use a few too many types of film .

 

[Sirius Glass]

While you could change the film speed, you should not unless you have a really good reason to change it. I recommend always shooting box speed.

 

[John Koehrer]

When you set the ISO you have to shoot the entire roll at that ISO. The exposure compensation can still be used for individual frames.

 

[AgX]

h4rr13t, though being ignorant on your camera, just by looking at your photos I can tell you that

1x means the camera reads the film speed as set by you at the dial

the red settings mean that the camera reads the set film speed multiplied with the red factor. This is done to enable you to override the fiilm speed setting for certain exposure correction reason.
With many camera a "override" has to be done by resetting the film speed, which can lead to confusion, which thr original film speed was, especiallz when the camera has not zet a window in the back, making zou see part of the cassette.

By the way, always read the manual of your camera. Even experienced users here found some quirk at some camera they would not have realized without reading the manual.
For all common analog cameras the manual is somewhere on the internet.

For example
https://www.butkus.org/chinon/pentax/pentax_me/pentax_me.htm

 

[RalphLambrecht]

While learning I would suggest that you always shoot film at the box speed, that is if it says 400 on the box set the camera to 400, with color film always set the camera to the stated speed, remember the meter will set the camera for the speed it is set to, using a different iso will result in over/under exposed negatives, later on, especialy if you shoot black and white you will find that you will find your own film speed setting for the film, for instance, for fomapan 400, the film I mostly use I set the camera at 250, in fact for most 400 iso film I will set the film speed down to 250/200 and develop for the speed I have set

+1

 

[Bud Hamblen]

The ASA / ISO film speed dial tells the light meter inside your camera how fast the film is. Lower settings mean you get more exposure. You usually would set the film speed on the meter to match the film speed on the box the film came in. Sometimes the meter is off on old cameras. If your camera consistently over exposes film you might set the film speed higher on the meter. Set it lower if the camera consistently under exposes film.

 

[Wallendo]

There are a lot of reasons for using a non-standard ISO setting, but these are useful for more experienced photographers (I have a few cameras that I adjust the ISO on due to battery voltage issues - this shouldn't be a problem for your camera however). When starting, I wouldn't change anything with the ISO setting until your own personal experience tells you you need to do so.

 

[h4rr13t]

Let me say an example, in a landscape 1/3 of the scene is the sky, the rest are mountains, the camera is to fire (say) 1/250... but you want to know: how the sky will be exposed ? No problem, just point the camera framing only the sky, if camera says 1/000 this says that when you frame the real scene and the camera shots 1/250 the sky will result 2 stops overexposed...

Then you think... oh, I'm using Velvia and 2 stops overexposure is too much for the sky !!! No problem, you set 1/2x in the dial and your camera will shot 1/500, so you will overexpose the sky by 1 stop,

Ohhh I've read about that for digital cameras! I've used a digital one before and it had the -3 to +3 scale you can see in the bottom left corner to adjust the exposure...

Is that what the wheel with the different numbers does on my camera?
And thanks for the link

 

[h4rr13t]

By the way, always read the manual of your camera. Even experienced users here found some quirk at some camera they would not have realized without reading the manual.
For all common analog cameras the manual is somewhere on the internet.
/QUOTE]

I have the manual and figured out that I could move the ISO wheel because of it.... I ended up getting confused by their advice on over and underexposure that's why I asked my questions.
Trying to learn about something is literally the opposite of being ignorant lmao

 

[138S]

Ohhh I've read about that for digital cameras! I've used a digital one before and it had the -3 to +3 scale you can see in the bottom left corner to adjust the exposure...
Is that what the wheel with the different numbers does on my camera?
And thanks for the link

Well, the ME works in another way.

You may practice with the DSLR to understand how to operate the ME.

With the SLR set Center-Weight exposure mode (https://photographylife.com/understanding-metering-modes#center-weighted-metering) and Aperture Priority mode (Av). Now the DSLR will work like the ME


Then use an scene to practice with the DSLR, a landscape with a forest and a bright sky.

Frame the forest and the sky, say that it shots 1/500.

Now frame the forest alone with no sky, say it shots 1/250

Now frame the sky alone with no forest, say it shots 1/1000


Well, the good exposure for the sky was 1/1000, the good one for the forest was 1/250

But the camera has to use an exposure that is acceptable for both, and it used 1/500 average.


But the camera does not know what you want... imagine you want the perfect exposure for the forest, and you wnat to sacrifice the sky, with the ME when you framed the forest alone you got 1/250, this is the exposure you want... but you make your framing taking sky the ME goes to 1/500, if you still want 1/250 then you select 2x (corrected) in the dial of the ME and the exposure moves to 1/250 (from 1/500), you got the exposure you wanted !!!! you have the perfect exposure for your forest without the sky modifying exposure

 

[grain elevator]

the ME goes to 1/500, if you still want 1/250 then you select 1/2x

No, ronnies corrected this way up in the thread. You have to select 2x to go from 1/500 to 1/250, as 6th grade math would suggest

 

[138S]

No, ronnies corrected this way up in the thread. You have to select 2x to go from 1/500 to 1/250, as 6th grade math would suggest

yeah... corrected, a short circuit

 

[AgX]

have the manual and figured out that I could move the ISO wheel because of it.... I ended up getting confused by their advice on over and underexposure that's why I asked my questions.

I hope my post #14 made it clear. Otherwise do not hesitate to ask again.