Film Ferrania - Developments from October 2023 onward

[abruzzi]

yeah, I checked before clicking order, and saw a yelp listing with positive reviews of the real world store. The only worry was they didn't have a web store and what I found was scam, but the yelp page listed the same URL so I figured I was good. It just surprised me that anyone has P30 at this point. (TBF, they were sold out on P33)

 

[Nzoomed]

I suspect that Much of the "staying Afloat" has been mostly a passion on the part of the heads of the enterprise, I can't imagine that they have actualy been making any significant money especally with the small availability of product. even if the retired employees who have been working their ae not actually drawing a salary. Likewise, I suspect that the relatively higher prices for film, and the limitations of the reward credits reflect the lack of cash.

I agree, I dont see how they are making enough profit from P30 and Orto to stay afloat, that being said, I dont think any of us know their sales volumes, but appears they have been keeping up with demand until recently.
Its still a bit of an unknown what if any funding/subsidizes the Italian government is putting into this.

 

[abruzzi]

yeah, I checked before clicking order, and saw a yelp listing with positive reviews of the real world store. The only worry was they didn't have a web store and what I found was scam, but the yelp page listed the same URL so I figured I was good. It just surprised me that anyone has P30 at this point. (TBF, they were sold out on P33)

well they're out now too. I got my 120 rolls, so i'm good there. They still have P30 in 35mm for those that shoot that format, but the 120 is now gone. Orto still seems to be available in places in both 120 and 35.

 

[flavio81]

I do hope that Ferrania makes it through this bump. Orto seems to still have stock at lots of places, but I went on a search for P30 in 120 size, and in the US its almost impossible to find. I took a chance on an online shop I've never used that showed stock of P30/120. They seem like a legit brick and mortar store in San Francisco called Glass Key Photo. They took my order and I have a tracking number so I think they are legit and actually do have P30 in stock.

Ferrania P30 120 — Glass Key Photo

Ferrania P30 B&W ISO 80 film

www.glasskeyphoto.com

and for those that like 35mm:

Ferrania P30 B&W 35mm 36exp film — Glass Key Photo

Ferrania P30 B&W 35mm 36exp film

www.glasskeyphoto.com

I ordered 20 rolls of 120, which should last me at least a year, while Ferrania gets their **** together to produce some more film. (hopefully.)

I was in Barcelona last week and I could easily find P30 and Orto.

 

[abruzzi]

I was in Barcelona last week and I could easily find P30 and Orto.

Interesting, I wonder why it is almost gone here, but more easily available outside the US. (To be fair, I'm only looking at 120, so I don't know much about availability of the 135 rolls.) Also, I am only looking at places with an online presence since I have no shops nearby that actually carry film.

 

[cmacd123]

Interesting, I wonder why it is almost gone here, but more easily available outside the US.

perhaps they find it easier to dritribute within the EU. the Find a dealer page on the FF website used to mostly have dealers in Italy.

 

[abruzzi]

perhaps they find it easier to dritribute within the EU. the Find a dealer page on the FF website used to mostly have dealers in Italy.

well, at this point, with 20 new rolls of P30 and about 5 from my previous purchase, I'm good for about a year or so. By then the we'll probably know if Ferrania is dead or back to life. I don't want to be one of those people chasing down rolls of Panatomic-X last manufactured 30 years ago because I can't let go. Instead I'll play a requiem mass on the iPhone for the departed, and stock up on more TMX, Acros II, or something else still available.

 

[dkirby]

Are they?

I'm at europe right now, a P30 roll is like 11 EUR while Adox CHS II 100 is like 8 EUR. The Adox is a real 100 speed film and technically very good. The P30 is a very strange film which, as far as i've seen on tests and sample pics/etc (and i've following P30 for years), it's not really an ISO 80 film, more like a much slower speed film that you can develop to expose at EI 80 with the downside of contrast getting to extremes.

Again, a P30 roll is like 11 EUR, while Kodak Tmax 100 is 11.90 EUR, and that one is a truly excellent, superior film. I don't think I need to Xtol the virtues of Tmax here, of course. TMax is truly ISO 100 (or, well ISO 80 in any case), has perhaps the best MTF curve in its class, fine grain, versatil as a swiss knife, etc etc. And these are european prices, on America the prices should be better.

If Ferrania wants P30 to succeed, the price needs an adjustment.

Excellence for me isn't technical perfection. P30 delivers a more interesting and emotional result in my opinion in part because it's not as "advanced" as Tmax/Delta, but is still very high quality in terms of things like sharpness and grain size. While I agree it's not ISO 80, I don't mind that I have to shoot it at 64 or 50. And while of course I wish it was cheaper I'm more than willing to pay $12 per roll for personal moments that are important to me, or when I want a particular look. It's uniquely beautiful - I haven't been able to replicate the look other than by just shooting it.

Already posted one of these I think but some results:





I'm newer to Orto but I'm impressed by the early returns, especially the resolving power. I expect to shoot more of it because Ferrania is apparently back in production this past week, according to this:


Also, sure, they're probably not turning a huge profit, and the passion of the people making it deserves a ton of credit. But if the film was bad no one would care.

 

[Alessandro Serrao]

Excellence for me isn't technical perfection. P30 delivers a more interesting and emotional result in my opinion in part because it's not as "advanced" as Tmax/Delta, but is still very high quality in terms of things like sharpness and grain size. While I agree it's not ISO 80, I don't mind that I have to shoot it at 64 or 50. And while of course I wish it was cheaper I'm more than willing to pay $12 per roll for personal moments that are important to me, or when I want a particular look. It's uniquely beautiful - I haven't been able to replicate the look other than by just shooting it.

Already posted one of these I think but some results:





I'm newer to Orto but I'm impressed by the early returns, especially the resolving power. I expect to shoot more of it because Ferrania is apparently back in production this past week, according to this:


Also, sure, they're probably not turning a huge profit, and the passion of the people making it deserves a ton of credit. But if the film was bad no one would care.

Is there an Official statement about Ferrania is back on production?

 

[dkirby]

Is there an Official statement about Ferrania is back on production?

Not that I can find. But there was also no announcement of them being off production.

 

[albireo]

Are they?

I'm at europe right now, a P30 roll is like 11 EUR while Adox CHS II 100 is like 8 EUR. The Adox is a real 100 speed film and technically very good. The P30 is a very strange film which, as far as i've seen on tests and sample pics/etc (and i've following P30 for years), it's not really an ISO 80 film, more like a much slower speed film that you can develop to expose at EI 80 with the downside of contrast getting to extremes.

Never used P30. I used a lot of P33 though.

I thought P33 was a vastly better film than CHS II.

I tested some 20 rolls of each in 35mm last year and I was really disappointed with CHSII. I didn't find it close to the declared speed (I had to shoot it at 32 to get the shadow density I was getting at 125EI with P33) and found it really grainy in D76 and Xtol 1:1. Grainier than Fomapan 100 which is an 80EI film in my workflow. Way grainier than Kentmere 100, which is an EI 100 film in my workflow.

Adox CHS II was one of the most disappointing films I tested last year, and I was really, really wanting it to be great (I had loved Silvermax, and CHS II is to Silvermax like a Ford Mondeo is to a Porsche Cayenne).

But back to Ferrania - Ferrania P33 blows the socks off CHS II in all measurable parameters in my chain. I prefer Ferrania P33 to FP4+ even.

So yes Ferrania is very much able to make world class film and the price asked for P33 is imho entirely justified.

 

[abruzzi]

So yes Ferrania is very much able to make world class film and the price asked for P33 is imho entirely justified.

Unfortunately, then never got to putting it on 120, but I would love to try some if they pull together and get manuafacturing again. I also wish they made all their films in sheet sizes, but I get the LF shooter are a miniscule fraction compared to the 35mm users.

 

[albireo]

Unfortunately, then never got to putting it on 120, but I would love to try some if they pull together and get manuafacturing again. I also wish they made all their films in sheet sizes, but I get the LF shooter are a miniscule fraction compared to the 35mm users.

P33 in 120 would have been a thing of wonder.

 

[dkirby]

Never used P30. I used a lot of P33 though.

I thought P33 was a vastly better film than CHS II.

I tested some 20 rolls of each in 35mm last year and I was really disappointed with CHSII. I didn't find it close to the declared speed (I had to shoot it at 32 to get the shadow density I was getting at 125EI with P33) and found it really grainy in D76 and Xtol 1:1. Grainier than Fomapan 100 which is an 80EI film in my workflow. Way grainier than Kentmere 100, which is an EI 100 film in my workflow.

Adox CHS II was one of the most disappointing films I tested last year, and I was really, really wanting it to be great (I had loved Silvermax, and CHS II is to Silvermax like a Ford Mondeo is to a Porsche Cayenne).

But back to Ferrania - Ferrania P33 blows the socks off CHS II in all measurable parameters in my chain. I prefer Ferrania P33 to FP4+ even.

So yes Ferrania is very much able to make world class film and the price asked for P33 is imho entirely justified.

Would love to see some of your P33 shots. I haven't gotten the chance to try it yet but obviously will do so immediately if possible; I've only heard positive things.

 

[albireo]

Would love to see some of your P33 shots. I haven't gotten the chance to try it yet but obviously will do so immediately if possible; I've only heard positive things.

Firstly - there is a member on here who posted a couple of examples in a dedicated P33 thread which I really enjoyed - if they're reading this I'd encourage them to share their lovely sample images again.

As for me, I've used P33 mostly for family/private shots so I don't have a lot to share but here's a couple that might give you an idea. These are really quick snapshots taken with common equipment and process, nothing exoteric - a mechanical SLR with its standard prime (I think it was my Nikon FE with the 50mm AI-s 1.8 pancake and a 28mm f/2.8). Internal meter - centre weighted - set for EI 160 (picture of the leaves) or 125 (the other ones). In terms of development I'm pretty sure I just used what I had, which would have been either Adox D76 1:1 one shot, or their XT-3 1:1 one shot. I will check.

I like a couple of things about this film - a really nice balanced panchromatic response, no extended reds; well defined but not obtrusive grain; works well in simple, straightforward processes. Above all, it works well for me at EI 125 or even EI 160, which is a nice sweet spot. More than once, in overcast days, that 160 ISO has allowed me to get away with a 1/60th handheld and f/5.6, which is nice.

I can see how someone can say 'hey - I can get all of the above from FP4+, too, and it's cheaper!". And that's a fair point. But personally, with the same equipment, I need to shoot FP4+ at EI 80 or 100 to get similar shadow detail.

All in all I think this P33 was a film that filled a nice niche - it's going to be a pity if it's there no more.

 

[dkirby]

Firstly - there is a member on here who posted a couple of examples in a dedicated P33 thread which I really enjoyed - if they're reading this I'd encourage them to share their lovely sample images again.

As for me, I've used P33 mostly for family/private shots so I don't have a lot to share but here's a couple that might give you an idea. These are really quick snapshots taken with common equipment and process, nothing exoteric - a mechanical SLR with its standard prime (I think it was my Nikon FE with the 50mm AI-s 1.8 pancake and a 28mm f/2.8). Internal meter - centre weighted - set for EI 160 (picture of the leaves) or 125 (the other ones). In terms of development I'm pretty sure I just used what I had, which would have been either Adox D76 1:1 one shot, or their XT-3 1:1 one shot. I will check.

I like a couple of things about this film - a really nice balanced panchromatic response, no extended reds; well defined but not obtrusive grain; works well in simple, straightforward processes. Above all, it works well for me at EI 125 or even EI 160, which is a nice sweet spot. More than once, in overcast days, that 160 ISO has allowed me to get away with a 1/60th handheld and f/5.6, which is nice.

I can see how someone can say 'hey - I can get all of the above from FP4+, too, and it's cheaper!". And that's a fair point. But personally, with the same equipment, I need to shoot FP4+ at EI 80 or 100 to get similar shadow detail.

All in all I think this P33 was a film that filled a nice niche - it's going to be a pity if it's there no more.

Thanks for sharing! I really love the one inside the car, and the one by the water with the stairs. It's a different look from P30 - especially contrast-wise - but I love its tonality. Classic, and a bit more character than FP4. I really hope I get the chance to work with it.

 

[albireo]

Thanks for sharing! I really love the one inside the car, and the one by the water with the stairs. It's a different look from P30 - especially contrast-wise - but I love its tonality. Classic, and a bit more character than FP4. I really hope I get the chance to work with it.

Contrast is something you'd be able to match across any film you're using, either via development changes or post-processing/printing, or both.

What really sets P30 and P33 apart (based on the reviews I've read on P30) is a) effective sensitivity and b) spectral response. I think P30 has an almost orthochromatic response - whereas P33 does not.

 

[cmacd123]

What really sets P30 and P33 apart (based on the reviews I've read on P30) is a) effective sensitivity and b) spectral response. I think P30 has an almost orthochromatic response - whereas P33 does not.

as an older film design P30 is sometimes called orthopancromatic. about half way between Otrho and a full pan. I have been unable to obtain enough P33 to be able to judge, But I understand it was designed as a true PAN film.

 

[flavio81]

I like a couple of things about this film - a really nice balanced panchromatic response, no extended reds; well defined but not obtrusive grain; works well in simple, straightforward processes. Above all, it works well for me at EI 125 or even EI 160, which is a nice sweet spot. More than once, in overcast days, that 160 ISO has allowed me to get away with a 1/60th handheld and f/5.6, which is nice.

Hey - I can get all of the above from FP4+, too, and it's cheaper!

What really sets P30 and P33 apart (based on the reviews I've read on P30) is a) effective sensitivity and b) spectral response. I think P30 has an almost orthochromatic response - whereas P33 does not.

Yes, I agree on your observations regarding tonal response. When the resurrected P30 appeared (2016), i was one of the first here -if not the first- to say that it appeared as being an orthochromatic film.

P33 is definitely different, and I dare to say better in this regard.

 

[flavio81]

Already posted one of these I think but some results:

I think yours are some of the best images captured with P30. Ferrania should hire you.

What is the ISO/EI you used it and which developer? Please. Exposure Index 64 with D-76 1:1.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I really like both P30 and P33. I'm hoping once Ferrania gets itself sorted, I'll see P33 in 120...and both films in sheet film sizes...(queue Supertramp's, Dreamer ).

 

[albireo]

Hey - I can get all of the above from FP4+, too, and it's cheaper!

Well it's a non issue anyway..I can't find P33 in stock anywhere. Pity. But yes we're lucky to have incredible, continuously supported+produced film of the caliber of FP4+.

 

[dkirby]

I think yours are some of the best images captured with P30. Ferrania should hire you.

What is the ISO/EI you used it and which developer? Please. Exposure Index 64 with D-76 1:1.

Thank you. I will say I also judiciously try to make sure my subjects are not underexposed - P30 is much more unforgiving in that aspect than more modern films are. I think I overexposed that backlit one of the girls by the bridge in order to keep their faces from going too dark, for example...camera was set to EI64, but I gave it an extra stop in my shutter speed iirc.

I'd love to work with Ferrania. Maybe then I'd be able to actually get some P33...

Yes; I (usually) expose P30 at EI64 and develop in D76 1:1 for 13.5 minutes at 20C/68F. Sometimes I give it more light, but I don't change my development method. I never give it less light.

 

[Nzoomed]

Excellence for me isn't technical perfection. P30 delivers a more interesting and emotional result in my opinion in part because it's not as "advanced" as Tmax/Delta, but is still very high quality in terms of things like sharpness and grain size. While I agree it's not ISO 80, I don't mind that I have to shoot it at 64 or 50. And while of course I wish it was cheaper I'm more than willing to pay $12 per roll for personal moments that are important to me, or when I want a particular look. It's uniquely beautiful - I haven't been able to replicate the look other than by just shooting it.

Already posted one of these I think but some results:





I'm newer to Orto but I'm impressed by the early returns, especially the resolving power. I expect to shoot more of it because Ferrania is apparently back in production this past week, according to this:


Also, sure, they're probably not turning a huge profit, and the passion of the people making it deserves a ton of credit. But if the film was bad no one would care.

I guess thats a bit of good news if its true.

 

[Mackinaw]

This just popped up on the Ferrania P30 Facebook page. Apparently Jake Seal is the owner of Ferrania. Does anybody read Italian?

Jim B.