First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

[Ernst-Jan]

From those who said this was any evidence provided to substantiate their argument and if so what was that evidence?

Thanks

pentaxuser

If I remembered who said it, I would ofcourse have added it. Maybe my post triggers other people who know what was exactly said and by whom.

 

[pentaxuser]

If I remembered who said it, I would ofcourse have added it. Maybe my post triggers other people who know what was exactly said and by whom.

OK and thanks. It just sounded as if someone had speculated rather than had any real evidence but I asked the question on that "just in case " basis that such evidence existed

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, I believe Harman did a fair bit of cross subsidization when they were trying to bring the old Ilford black and white business out of receivership.
But they still had to face cold hard facts. I believe the first product to be discontinued by them due to low or no profits was the cool tone developer.

 

[pentaxuser]

FWIW, I believe Harman did a fair bit of cross subsidization when they were trying to bring the old Ilford black and white business out of receivership.
But they still had to face cold hard facts. I believe the first product to be discontinued by them due to low or no profits was the cool tone developer.

Did someone from Harman such as Simon Galley say this or say something so close that it could not be any question that it referred to cross subsidisation?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Romanko]

Is there a summary to say in 5 lines don't use it for this and use it for that?

Carry a second camera/back loaded with a Kodak film in case you come across a good subject.
Enjoy your Phoenix.
Have fun.

 

[pbromaghin]

Why on earth should any of us think we have a right to care that Ilford is subsidizing the creation of a color film out of sales of other films? Just where do people think the money for a new product comes from? It is corporate death to stand still.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why on earth should any of us think we have a right to care that Ilford is subsidizing the creation of a color film out of sales of other films? Just where do people think the money for a new product comes from? It is corporate death to stand still.

Ilford was directed to stop making color film by the UK if I remember correctly. I would like to see Ilford product a worthy color print film. There is no question that to do so would require resources [money, brains and time] to bring it back.

 

[MattKing]

Did someone from Harman such as Simon Galley say this or say something so close that it could not be any question that it referred to cross subsidisation?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Simon Galley posted about the reasons for discontinuance of the cool tone developer.
They were really reluctant to make the decision, because their initial promise was to not discontinue any of the products they committed to keeping in their line after the business was revived, and the cool tone developer required them to break that promise.

 

[MattKing]

Why on earth should any of us think we have a right to care that Ilford is subsidizing the creation of a color film out of sales of other films?

Everybody has a right to care - if the concern is based on concern for Harman's wellbeing.
Products that require subsidization can kill a business.

 

[koraks]

Ilford was directed to stop making color film by the UK if I remember correctly.

That sounds a little odd, to be honest. Western governments generally don't decide these matters.

 

[foc]

Ilford was directed to stop making color film by the UK if I remember correctly.

I think you may be referring to the UK Monopolies Commission back in 1966.

For more details, please read @Ian Grant post #03 here

Also check out 1966 in both of these

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/about-us/history/

https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Chronology.html

 

[koraks]

I think you may be referring to the UK Monopolies Commission back in 1966.

That makes sense; so it wasn't a case of Ilford being 'directed to stop making color film', but rather a poorly designed anti-monopoly policy that backfired.

 

[Sirius Glass]

That makes sense; so it wasn't a case of Ilford being 'directed to stop making color film', but rather a poorly designed anti-monopoly policy that backfired.

Now would be a good time to fix past mistakes.

 

[koraks]

Now would be a good time to fix past mistakes.

Looks like 60 years after the fact, they're making progress!

 

[blee1996]

Tried Harman Phoenix with pinhole, and it kind of gives the bold Holga look. The blur in the foreground is due to wind motion: it was 2 seconds exposure. Shot at ISO 100, Kodak C41 kit home developed, scanned as slide and inverted in Negative Labs Pro.

Backlit blossom - ZeroImage69_Phoenix200A_009 by Zheng, on Flickr

Up close the fluffy - ZeroImage69_Phoenix200A_004 by Zheng, on Flickr

A dreamy lane - ZeroImage69_Phoenix200A_001 by Zheng, on Flickr

 

[dalahorse]

... I expect it will go down well with the folk who enjoy "effects" films and will help fill the coffers for more R&D towards a 'normal' C41 film.

This is what I think Harman is going for with Phoenix. It would seem that there are a lot of young photographers who have been inspired by family photo albums full of color shifted machine prints and Polaroids from the 1970s and 1980s. These are, I suspect, the same photographers shooting with potato quality cameras and special effect films. It sort of reminds me of starting out as a kid with my lumpy grain drugstore prints from my Kodak Disc 3100 - complete with fingertips partially covering the lens - from back in 1984.

Rather than discard several batches of prototype film, Harman might as well sell it to that niche market. Hopefully some of the profit will go into further R&D to produce "normal" color print films. And hopefully some of the profit will also go into other Phoenix-like films, which is what the retro-inspired buyers are interested right now. If Harman doesn't pay attention to what up and coming young photographers and bloggers want, they'll miss out on an entire genre of film photography.