Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

armadsen · Nov 30, 2023

mshchem said:
What store? I remember going to a shop in Salt Lake City, about 15 years ago. Small shop, still lots of analog. To the best of my recollection it had been there for decades. Nice store.

Essential Photo Supply. They only opened about 2 years ago, but are absolutely wonderful. They have an actual walk in fridge full of film, darkroom supplies, used (higher end, e.g. Leica, Rollei, etc.) film cameras, on site C41, E6, and B&W processing, and the nicest staff you'll meet. They also sell digital cameras, lenses, etc. Definitely worth a visit if you find yourself in SLC again.

I'm not sure which store you would have visited. The big one is Pictureline, but aside from a decent but small film fridge, they're basically an all digital shop. And I've had some unpleasant experiences with them, so I don't really go there anymore. Allen's Camera took over the space Inkley's was in after they closed, and they're another really good, small shop with a small but well stocked used selection along with their new stuff, and very friendly helpful staff. Lastly, there's Acme Camera which is pretty much a (mostly lower end) film camera shop, equipment (lighting, etc.) rental business, and just started film processing. Great people, but their film selection is abysmal and only occasionally do they have interesting cameras so I don't go a lot.

Also, we did it! We crossed 1500 posts while I was typing this.

LeoniD · Nov 30, 2023

It

brbo said:
We'll have to wait for some samples, but unless spec sheet is intentionally selling this film short, this is not even Orwo NC500 level.

This better cost 15+ EUR or else nobody will buy it...

It's better to not have any mask at all than to have over/undermasking

Henning Serger · Nov 30, 2023

armadsen said:
Agreed, but that's truly not the point. They have to start somewhere, and pouring many millions upon millions of dollars into developing something perfect without releasing intermediate attempts would mean never doing color film at all. I'm planning to buy 10 or so rolls tomorrow just to support them and experiment with. I won't use them for anything important, at least not to start, of course. If it helps Harman progress toward something better so that 10 years from now I can buy great color film from them, I find that well worth it.

In other words, I see the transaction between me and them as something more than the typical I give you money, you give me a product that meets my needs and that's the end of it. It's more like, I give you money, you give me a so-so product, and I hope it helps you do better in the future.

I can completely agree.
Ilford has never disappointed me, and therefore I have been their loyal customer since my start in BW photography as a very young guy.
So I will continue to support them by buying this new, experimental film.

Best regards,
Henning

BrianShaw · Nov 30, 2023

I’m going back to bed, and might sleep through tomorrow. The influencers and their ilk can have my share.

I’ll keep using FP4+ and Portra…

Henning Serger · Nov 30, 2023

bfilm said:
Thanks for the update. I was hoping they would figure out a way to do this in Germany, but I guess not yet. I thought at one point they were working on that, but if so, then I guess it is not completed.

Film confectioning in higher volumes is high-tech, and very challenging if you want to get problem-free products.
As both companies are in insolvency, there are simply no ressources to establish an own higher volume confectioning line.

Best regards,
Henning

0x001688936CA08 · Nov 30, 2023

armadsen said:
...I'm planning to buy 10 or so rolls tomorrow just to support them...

I don't even shoot 35mm, and I intend to do the same in the hopes we might see Harman Colour 120 and sheets some day.

brbo · Nov 30, 2023

mshchem said:
The example photos shown on firstcall leave me unimpressed. Not for me, I'm sure there will be plenty of buyers.

I love those! Ok, the high contrast ones (from coast) don't look particularly good, but the rest are very nice. High contrast and still not totally over the top saturation. Most of them have a Frontier feel to them so I guess labs will not have too hard a time scanning this film...

Ordered 4 rolls at 13,70 EUR from Nordfoto.

mshchem · Nov 30, 2023

Henning Serger said:
You're welcome.
I know this topic is quite complicated and not so easy to understand for people outside this industry. That is the reason I try to explain the facts here, even if I am repeating my explanations several times.....

Yes, I know the video (a good one, I can highly recommend watching it) and I can confirm this data: I have visited the Polaroid factory in Enschede, too. Earlier than my factory visit in Monheim. And indeed the demand for and production of Polaroid instant film increased significantly in these last years. In Monheim they told me that they are doing coating runs of Polaroid base negative and positive film almost daily. And the demand has further increased since then.
And the quality of the Polaroid film has also significantly increased. I was positively surprised by the quality of their latest film in their latest high(er) quality camera at the Photopia fair in Hamburg this September. Really a different world compared to the results I got some years ago.

Fujifilm has invested a lot over the last 15 years in instax film. A huge success story. Instax film and cameras are a very big mass market. Fujifilm is producing more instax instant cameras p.a. than all Japanese digital camera manufacturers combined (!!).
In the instant film market Fujifilm is by far market leader with a market share of more than 90%.
They are selling more than 70 million film packs (!) p.a., and it is further increasing.

Best regards,
Henning

I just to say thanks for your contributions here. I just finished watching the Polaroid video plant tour. Very impressive, I need to try a couple more packs of SX-70

Henning Serger · Nov 30, 2023

mshchem said:
I just to say thanks for your contributions here.

You're welcome.

Best regards,
Henning

warden · Nov 30, 2023

mshchem said:
At this rate we won't break 1500 before this is official.

We did.

MattKing · Nov 30, 2023

brbo said:
Sorry for asking, what is a "container box" (ship container)? What quantities are we talking about?

Well, the Port of Vancouver's public outreach office tells me that a standard shipping container holds 10,000 shoeboxes, so you can estimate from that how many rolls of film might be found in one.

BrianShaw · Nov 30, 2023

What size shoe?

warden · Nov 30, 2023

I’m glad to see they did their homework and provided a data sheet so users wouldn’t have to do it for them. I would have been shocked if they had not done so. Unusual performance from an experimental color film will sell well and allow them to continue development. All is well.

Oz Etkin · Nov 30, 2023

Given the lack of color masking dyes, I'm interested to see what this film would look like processed in E6 chemistry.

mshchem · Nov 30, 2023

BrianShaw said:
What size shoe?

Brilliant

AnselMortensen · Nov 30, 2023

BrianShaw said:
What size shoe?

What is the airspeed of a swallow?

Focomatter · Nov 30, 2023

AnselMortensen said:
What is the airspeed of a swallow?

Which species? It is already 1 Dec in much of the world but no premature announcements.

pbromaghin · Nov 30, 2023

SilverShutter said:
Thanks, just saw that now. Certainly a different rendering, but not unpleasing. I thought it was going to be more extreme, judging by their description of it.

I was surprised with the group that showed the blue skies - didn't expect that from the spectral sensitivity chart. All of them showed pretty high saturation, too. Of course, they're all neg scans...

BHuij · Nov 30, 2023

armadsen said:
...Allen's Camera took over the space Inkley's was in after they closed, and they're another really good, small shop with a small but well stocked used selection along with their new stuff, and very friendly helpful staff....

Glad to hear their reputation is still good. I worked at Allen's Camera while I was in High School, back when they had an American Fork location. When they closed down the American Fork store is when they opened up their SLC store. I still haven't been to the SLC store haha, but I was in the Orem store yesterday. Ironically I spoke to Ethan, one of the owners, and made him promise to save me a roll of Phoenix when he gets it in a week or two

Lachlan Young · Nov 30, 2023

koraks said:
I don't really follow, to be honest. Maybe I'm just slow. I don't see how spectral sensitivity would depend on the presence of an orange mask, which serves mostly to correct for the hue of the actual color dyes. Spectral sensitization and hue color are quite different things, aren't they? Sensitizing dyes (and sulfur, gold, osmium etc.) are stuck to the silver grains to manipulate spectral sensitivity. Dye couplers are chosen for the dye and resulting hues they form. Of course there's a relation in a functional sense. But I don't quite follow why the absence of a mask would have implications for spectral sensitivity in a specific band. Unless the argument is "the whole thing is simpler, so that extends to both mask and spectral sensitization". In that sense, I can agree.

Kodak & Fuji etc. have used 2-3 dye-forming layers per color for decades, which gets you beyond the 10-layer mark (easily). I guess they have good reasons for this.
I don't see Harman innovating in a sense that their first market entry with a color film fundamentally improves the state of the art by simplifying the layer stack significantly while achieving similar performance. By all means, it looks like they're inching their way into the field very much like Inoviscoat has been doing, with a rather rudimentary product to begin with. The snippet from the datasheet I saw suggests nothing like a normal C41 color film like we're used to. It looks like something that escaped from the 1960s. Which is not a bad thing, per se. It may have a charm to it.

See Pg.9-10 in Shanebrook - the couplers used for masking "have visual colour before the film is exposed" - their effect will be to tamp down the two spectral sensitivity spikes you see in the data sheet as they are incorporated in the green & red sensitive layers (the Fuji data sheets also state this - and their colour - eg the magenta couplers are yellow in colour before processing). In other words, from what we can now see, Ilford have got a workable set of sensitisers for when they add the mask.

mshchem · Nov 30, 2023

AnselMortensen said:
What is the airspeed of a swallow?

It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.

mshchem · Nov 30, 2023

pbromaghin said:
I was surprised with the group that showed the blue skies - didn't expect that from the spectral sensitivity chart. All of them showed pretty high saturation, too. Of course, they're all neg scans...

I made a scan of a black and white photo of my grandfather. The automatic software in the printer scanner colorized the photo. It actually looked pretty good, muted, not like some people do.

cmacd123 · Nov 30, 2023

Anon Ymous said:
Oh, we've got a datasheet. The red and green curves are more or less parallel, but the blue one isn't.

I am wondering what is with the film leader looking light coloured on Both sides? Are they trying to do a CINESTILL with NO anti-halo provisions?

bfilm · Dec 1, 2023

cmacd123 said:
I am wondering what is with the film leader looking light coloured on Both sides? Are they trying to do a CINESTILL with NO anti-halo provisions?

If we assume that the aforementioned datasheet is genuine (I guess we will know soon), it states:

"In addition to the risk of occasional coating anomalies, this film does not have masking dyes and limited antihalation incorporated in the base layer. This means that striking halation effects around bright light sources and reflections are possible. In addition to its atypical colour rendering, this film has a distinctly analogue look when shooting certain scenes and colour palettes."

analogwisdom · Dec 1, 2023

Brad Deputy said:
There are rumors around that Fuji Japan c200 manufacturing and shipping has resumed. Fingers crossed.

I'm not sure about C200, but I know for certain that Fujicolor 100, Superia Premium 400, and Superia X-TRA 400 all have. Boxes with a 2026-03 expiration date from all 3 of those films have shown up in the last week online.

Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

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