Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Burninfilm]

I'm really having a hard time writing this update... My experience was overwhelming on many levels. Also, no one, including me, would have read my first draft... It's coming, I promise.

LOL. Unfortunately, the backers of this project are very accustomed to waiting a LOOOOOONG time to hear any type of update. So by all means, let us know in a few months what it was you were wanting to say.

I was very upbeat about this project when I first backed it. However, after 2 YEARS... that fire has definitely fizzled out to a large degree.

It wouldn't be so bad if the Film Ferrania team didn't constantly "drop the ball" in regards to the statements they make to their backers:

"We won’t be able to make photos or videos in the coating room from now on, but we won’t keep you in the dark. We will continue posting regular weekly updates about coater tests and begin to introduce you to other parts of our operations."

That was from the November 13th update on the Film Ferrania website. There have been no new updates since November 19th. It is currently December 23rd. It would take all of 5-10 minutes for someone to sit down and write a short little update and post it up on the website (you know, about as long as it takes to reply to a post in this thread...).

Hopefully, the behind-the-scenes technical work is going along more competently. I do still think it would be awesome to see Film Ferrania accomplish the goals they stated they could meet in the Kickstarter campaign.

Until then, at least accomplish the goal of providing an actual update every once in a while... the backers really appreciate/enjoy seeing those...

 

[onre]

It isn't Film Ferrania team dropping the ball, it is the guy updating the website dropping the ball.

 

[railwayman3]

LOL. Unfortunately, the backers of this project are very accustomed to waiting a LOOOOOONG time to hear any type of update. So by all means, let us know in a few months what it was you were wanting to say.

I was very upbeat about this project when I first backed it. However, after 2 YEARS... that fire has definitely fizzled out to a large degree.

It wouldn't be so bad if the Film Ferrania team didn't constantly "drop the ball" in regards to the statements they make to their backers:

"We won’t be able to make photos or videos in the coating room from now on, but we won’t keep you in the dark. We will continue posting regular weekly updates about coater tests and begin to introduce you to other parts of our operations."

That was from the November 13th update on the Film Ferrania website. There have been no new updates since November 19th. It is currently December 23rd. It would take all of 5-10 minutes for someone to sit down and write a short little update and post it up on the website (you know, about as long as it takes to reply to a post in this thread...).

Like you, I was very upbeat when I backed the project, but I'm now starting to wonder if the successful manufacture of colour film is really going to prove to be beyond the means of this project. I stress that this is absolutely no criticism of anyone and I'm sure that it started with great ideas and genuine good intent. But, having recently read various descriptions of the high technology and skills which is involved in successfully making colour film, especially reversal (including our own PE's regular postings, and Bob Shanebrook's book), I'm sorry, but I'm no longer holding my breath. I do hope that I will be proved wrong.

 

[flavio81]

Like you, I was very upbeat when I backed the project, but I'm now starting to wonder if the successful manufacture of colour film is really going to prove to be beyond the means of this project. I stress that this is absolutely no criticism of anyone and I'm sure that it started with great ideas and genuine good intent. But, having recently read various descriptions of the high technology and skills which is involved in successfully making colour film, especially reversal (including our own PE's regular postings, and Bob Shanebrook's book), I'm sorry, but I'm no longer holding my breath. I do hope that I will be proved wrong.

So far, the Ferrania team has not had any setback directly related to color film making. All setbacks have been things like: power supply, water supply, steam generation, logistics, and cleaning the equipment.

 

[Nzoomed]

I cant get over the amount of negativity on this forum!

These guys are doing an amazing job and have had to get through many barriers, they are at last been making good progress and have been synthesising chemistry etc and all you guys can do is moan about the lack of updates!

I would like to see these "armchair" experts try the same task themselves, its not easy, thats fore sure.

Go Film Ferrania!

 

[Prof_Pixel]

I cant get over the amount of negativity on this forum!

APUG certainly has it's share of crepe hangers! https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/crepe+hanger.html

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The same negativity was there for the Travelwide camera...which eventually delivered. You just have to hang in there.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Hang all the crepe you want. I don't blame anyone for feeling critical or pessimistic.

It's happening...

Dead Link Removed

Merry Christmas or Happy Three-Day Weekend, whichever the case may be!

 

[Prof_Pixel]

It's happening...
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Dave,

Thanks for the update!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Excellent!

 

[pbromaghin]

BRAVO!

 

[flavio81]

Hang all the crepe you want. I don't blame anyone for feeling critical or pessimistic.

It's happening...

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Merry Christmas or Happy Three-Day Weekend, whichever the case may be!

Hi Dave,

The best update so far! And really well written. Thank you very much. I understand the emotion, your tears. At the same time i'm not surprised that the Ferrania engineers weren't so excited. I guess they know they can do much more, and were expecting to have a run with less problems.

As for frame #3 of the B&W roll, I say it looks really beautiful**, at the beginning I thought the curves were manipulated digitally to make it look good, so i was really impressed when I read that the image was not manipulated in any way!!

Complimenti!!

** although color sensitivity looks orthochromatic.

 

[Nzoomed]

WOW! Awesome update!

I must say that photo of the B&W film looks great and for the first test runs im sure there will be these sorts of teething problems to correct, so things like the bubble bursts dont really surprise me and im confident the team will solve this

May i ask what kind of formula was this based on?
Im hoping this is P30 based! Either way, i would love a sample to shoot, I dont care about the bubble bursts etc, as already mentioned it adds vintage effects

 

[railwayman3]

I cant get over the amount of negativity on this forum!

These guys are doing an amazing job and have had to get through many barriers, they are at last been making good progress and have been synthesising chemistry etc and all you guys can do is moan about the lack of updates!

I would like to see these "armchair" experts try the same task themselves, its not easy, thats fore sure.

Go Film Ferrania!

I wasn't moaning about lack of updates or being deliberately negative, and I certainly don't want the project to fail. After reading here and elsewhere, I was just speculating whether the successful manufacture of colour reversal film could now prove too complicated and difficult for anyone (other than Fuji, who, so far, have retainained the necessary expertise and working plant) . I'm not an armchair expert on anything, but, in my own profession, I have seen business projects fail, despite boundless enthusiasm, detailed planning, adequate finance and experienced and qualified people working 24/7/365 to try to make a success....sometimes unforeseen and unforeseeable problems, changing circumstances and events totally beyond anyone's control can just put a stop to everything.

I'me very happy to see the subsequent update, let's hope it's the first of much more good news.

 

[flavio81]

May i ask what kind of formula was this based on?
Im hoping this is P30 based!

P30 was panchromatic, this one does not look panchromatic, and since they are aiming for color film, probably that emulsion was only blue sensitive, as a coating test. Or perhaps they added the mysterious purple sensitizer shown on earlier clips.

 

[Alan W]

Good News!

 

[Lionel1972]

Fantastic update! Thanks a lot! Nice Xmas gift. I'm a backer and I have never given up hope. I think all the delays ended up being for the better as it helped starting on a stronger base for the future. I have no doubts progresses will cascade now.

 

[cmacd123]

P30 was panchromatic, this one does not look panchromatic, and since they are aiming for color film, probably that emulsion was only blue sensitive, as a coating test. Or perhaps they added the mysterious purple sensitizer shown on earlier clips.

Likly a rough cut of the sensitivity one colour layer, perhaps without the colour couplers, if they were not needed, but developed as black and white. the rest of the roll probably would be used for various lab tests. sensitivity plots and the like.

 

[Nzoomed]

P30 was panchromatic, this one does not look panchromatic, and since they are aiming for color film, probably that emulsion was only blue sensitive, as a coating test. Or perhaps they added the mysterious purple sensitizer shown on earlier clips.

Oh, well, its sure an interesting film!
Cant complain about the results either.

 

[Burninfilm]

Hang all the crepe you want. I don't blame anyone for feeling critical or pessimistic.

It's happening...

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Merry Christmas or Happy Three-Day Weekend, whichever the case may be!

Thank you for the update! It's great to see the tests begin to result in actual film. With luck, the progress will continue to build up without too many unforeseen problems. I can only imagine the challenges that come with restarting a film production line that has remain dormant for so long, with such a small team to do all of the work.

Just to be clear, pointing out Film Ferrania's issues with updates/communication is completely valid. Not trying to be negative... just realistic. Providing simple updates is probably the EASIEST thing they can do, and as I said I'm sure the backers appreciate/enjoy seeing the team's progress (and even the lack of progress when an obstacle is reached and later is overcome). This is always a problem with Kickstarter campaigns, when a hopeful Kickstarter team is great with communication/updates during a campaign, but seems to forget their backers after they get their money. It's also concerning when you think about how this company might handle itself AFTER it succeeds. Why have a hard working technical team in the background, dealing with a constant stream of setbacks and problem solving, and then a PR/website manager as part of the team that can't maintain regular updates to their backers and potential customers? If this problem won't be an issue any longer, that would be GREAT!

Having said all of that, I do still look forward to seeing them start up production and wish them the best in this endeavor. I even have a few cameras sitting around awaiting their time to run some new-production Ferrania film through them. Hopefully that happens someday soon ;-)

I hope everyone had a merry Christmas, and I wish the Film Ferrania team a happy New Year and a productive 2017!

 

[afriman]

Just to be clear, pointing out Film Ferrania's issues with updates/communication is completely valid. Not trying to be negative... just realistic. Providing simple updates is probably the EASIEST thing they can do, and as I said I'm sure the backers appreciate/enjoy seeing the team's progress (and even the lack of progress when an obstacle is reached and later is overcome).

I fully agree. A regularly weekly or monthly update would at least provide assurance that things are still on track, even if there is nothing new to report. No more than a sentence or two is required.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I fully agree. A regularly weekly or monthly update would at least provide assurance that things are still on track, even if there is nothing new to report. No more than a sentence or two is required.

Just to be clear, pointing out Film Ferrania's issues with updates/communication is completely valid. Not trying to be negative... just realistic. Providing simple updates is probably the EASIEST thing they can do, and as I said I'm sure the backers appreciate/enjoy seeing the team's progress (and even the lack of progress when an obstacle is reached and later is overcome).

The points you both make are entirely valid. But if you were to read every email and forum post and social media comment, like I do, you would see that the overwhelming majority of incoming messaging is positive, encouraging and enthusiastic. We do our best to honor this, and to post substantive updates rather than cluttering our website and social streams with an empty series of "hang in there" messages.

 

[Burninfilm]

...if you were to read every email and forum post and social media comment, like I do, you would see that the overwhelming majority of incoming messaging is positive, encouraging and enthusiastic. We do our best to honor this, and to post substantive updates rather than cluttering our website and social streams with an empty series of "hang in there" messages.

Fair enough. I never questioned the enthusiasm for the project you are receiving from people.

However, I don't believe more regular updates would "clutter" the Film Ferrania website. If there is nothing substantive that can be said after 1 month of work, even just a sentence or two discussing some of the issues the team has dealt with, that alone is a problem (at least at anywhere I have ever worked). I can't imagine investors would appreciate 3-4 months of radio silence followed by bad news.

Avoiding the empty promises may also be a good idea. Like stating there will be weekly updates and then allowing 5 weeks to lapse before providing an update. LOL. I personally don't think weekly updates are even necessary, and apparently they aren't realistic for the Film Ferrania team as well. Which is a totally OK thing to admit.

The Film Ferrania team seems to have dealt with a lot of frustrating challenges and appears to be making some real progress. It's really cool to watch!

 

[twelvetone12]

For example, I, being an engineer, would like more details on the "old methods" and "new methods"

 

[Burninfilm]

For example, I, being an engineer, would like more details on the "old methods" and "new methods"

Exactly! There HAS to be ton of topics that can be explored!