How much longer can photographic film hold on?

alapin · May 31, 2011

Check out this article I found today on the net.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20110530/D9NHUNV00.html

If they are right about Kodak selling, maybe Ilford could buy it. That would be great.

tribalista000 · May 31, 2011

I don't have any idea how long film will hold out, but as a 23 y/o who only started shooting film 2 years ago all I can say is that I hope film will be here long after I'm gone. I have never had the chance to shoot Kodachrome and Polaroid film, but discovering film has been fun and rewarding. The intimacy of every image shot and made will be something that digital can't capture, for me personally, results matter but so does the process involved. I don't mean to belittle digital and see it as a quick kiss in the dark, I do believe that it is quite as hard as film. However, I find that making a picture out of a negative, from the moment the shot is composed and captured, to the development process, down to the final print requires something else that I can't quite put into words.

To lose film completely will be a loss to photography I believe. Digital is the way forward, there really is no arguing with that but to do away with film completely is not beneficial to photography as a whole. As a famous quote here goes "ang hindi marunong lumingon sa kanyang pinanggalingan ay hindi makakarating sa kanyang paroroonan". Pictures are a part of humanity's culture, and photography is a triumph of human ingenuity. Losing film completely would be very regrettable in the long run.

The only thing I can hope for is that somehow if film becomes a niche that at least it would still be readily accessible with a variety of options in film, developer, etc. in the future. Haha! I'm still 23 but I do picture myself in the darkroom with my future kids printing and developing film.

I do apologize for my .0002 centavos worth of rant, highly uncalled for but since I caught the film wave too late I just felt it had to get out.

trishwalsh · May 31, 2011

I think film will be around for a long time yet... for as long as there will be a market there will be film *fingers-cross* I think it will become more of a niche market possible much more that it is now.

I have shot kodakchrome & love/loved the colours it produced, It's a shame it's been discontinued. I think the advantage film has over digital is that it makes the photographer think more because you have a limited amount of shots that cost money & whether you develop or you send it to a lab it costs money & this is also the big pitfall of film

Long may film last I say

Coen · May 31, 2011

Its a shame digital is taking over the market. Its ideal for the average citizen, because the fact you can see the picture in an instant is handy. But you want to capture emotion, you definitely have to go analog.

Dodgy English i know. I'm Dutch, and making an educated guess my English is still better than your Hollands.

vpwphoto · May 31, 2011

alapin said:
maybe Ilford could buy it. That would be great.

Comments like these make me nuts...
are you a venture capitalist expert?

It's about business, and business cases. Kodak is too big to survive as it is.
I really don't think Ilford needs it's resources. (I am not an expert either).

Film will be around as long as there is a large enough market of people willing to buy at the prices it is offered.

Hoarding will not help.. as the demand will drop until the hoarded stashes dry up.

I suspect Adox and Ilford will make it for a while. Kodak's machinery is so large that I doubt it will be practical to run... although they motion picture industry will keep some of it alive.

faustotesta · May 31, 2011

I'm not a business expert.
But some sentences i heard from a old photographer in Rome (owner of a photo-shop) made me think film will
still be around for a while.
Here they are: "around the globe there are companies producing 620 films. Do you think they would keep coating this stuff if they weren't profitable ? If 620 is still profitable this means that 35 and 120 will be around for a very long time" I do hope his prediction is correct.
As far as i'm concerned i'll keep shooting film (35 and 120). I hope, should kodak give up film production, someone out there gets its business.
Should color film die i'll only shoot BW hoping that foma,efke,bergger,adox and all these "niche" companies keep film alive.

David Brown · May 31, 2011

alapin said:
If they are right about Kodak selling, maybe Ilford could buy it. That would be great.

This article is just speculation. It could be right. It could be wrong. But it is what it is.

CGW · May 31, 2011

There's nothing "speculative" about the well-known stats repeated in this article. Haven't we all had enough of these threads?

railwayman3 · May 31, 2011

I'm sure that film will be around for many years....but only as a specialist and niche product for those "artists" who appreciate its unique qualities and are willing to pay the price as such. I would include in this professional and amateur users, and even serious lomographers, who are seeking to produce interesting and unusual results.

However, IMHO, the days of its use by family and snapshot users are long gone, and I see a further decline in the use by those hobbyists who become satisfied with the results from digital and no longer feel that the increasing costs of analog products are justified.

railwayman3 · May 31, 2011

faustotesta said:
I'm not a business expert.
But some sentences i heard from a old photographer in Rome (owner of a photo-shop) made me think film will
still be around for a while.
Here they are: "around the globe there are companies producing 620 films. Do you think they would keep coating this stuff if they weren't profitable ? If 620 is still profitable this means that 35 and 120 will be around for a very long time" I do hope his prediction is correct.
As far as i'm concerned i'll keep shooting film (35 and 120). I hope, should kodak give up film production, someone out there gets its business.
Should color film die i'll only shoot BW hoping that foma,efke,bergger,adox and all these "niche" companies keep film alive.

I agree entirely.

However, just picking up on niche products and unusual sizes...it's great that these are still made, hopefully profitably, but those like 620 are unlikely to be used again on any scale for everyday photography and ongoing production must be very fragile. I've just paid a ridiculous price for a couple of 127 films just for the fun of trying out my first schoolboy camera again, but, even if it works, I'm obviously not going to revert to buying that size regularly.

alapin · May 31, 2011

vpwphoto

No, I'm not a venture capitalist expert. Not every single person shoots b&w film, there are a great many who shoot both (me being one) and many who shoots color only. If Kodak decides to sell or close it's door then the available color film must come from these three company Fuji, Rollei, and Lomography. I not really such how much longer Fuji will continue to stay in the film business. Those using color only that don't want to move to b&w or use one the other companies, will either move to the dark side or stop shooting all together, anyway the number of people using film will likely be reduced making this more likely a niche market sooner.

APUG with its 50,000 + members is only a small number of peoples who buy film. Kodak sell color as well as b&w. So it likely that color film is one reason for them to be in business as well as b&w. With a major player like Kodak out of the market, the price of film may start to rise causing more people to leave film. My hope is that a good company would see a need and fill it. There are not to many of them left.

Steve Smith · May 31, 2011

Coen said:
Dodgy English i know. I'm Dutch, and making an educated guess my English is still better than your Hollands.

Probably (or definitely). You Dutch people seem to use English as much as your own language even when talking amongst yourselves!

Steve.

Carl V · May 31, 2011

Here in the UK, black & white film (as well as papers and chemistry) seem to be selling reasonably well and there are reports that sales have been increasing over recent times. It appears there are students who are interested in learning about traditional photography, which is great. I'm not sure about colour to be honest, but personally I only shoot in black & white these days anyway.

There was an article a couple of days ago in The Telegraph about this very subject:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...raditional-camera-film-makes-a-come-back.html

perkeleellinen · May 31, 2011

I recently threw away my multi-blade plastic cartridge razor and bought a double edged razor (my face still thanks me and so does my wallet). In the process of learning how to shave with the new razor I looked on some forums for tips and advice. What I did find were a few threads about when double edged razor blades will be discontinued. A lot of worry on the threads as most people now use plastic cartridge razors so how long can traditional blades hold on? Perhaps it's human nature to worry about the unknown, but at least film photographers are not alone.

Rick A · May 31, 2011

faustotesta said:
I'm not a business expert.
But some sentences i heard from a old photographer in Rome (owner of a photo-shop) made me think film will
still be around for a while.
Here they are: "around the globe there are companies producing 620 films. Do you think they would keep coating this stuff if they weren't profitable ? If 620 is still profitable this means that 35 and 120 will be around for a very long time" I do hope his prediction is correct.
As far as i'm concerned i'll keep shooting film (35 and 120). I hope, should kodak give up film production, someone out there gets its business.
Should color film die i'll only shoot BW hoping that foma,efke,bergger,adox and all these "niche" companies keep film alive.

Um.. 620 and 120 are the same film. Only difference is the spool its wound on. Film sales are slowly picking up, as more young folks are discovering film. Older shooters are returning to film as well. The only real obstacle to film production is environmental issues. Third world countries are ideal places to manufacture film, as they desire jobs and are willing to neglect the environment to secure employment for the population.

I could go on more about the issue, but I think I've said enough.

Jeff Kubach · May 31, 2011

The way I feel right now I'll be long dead when flilm passes away!

Jeff

edp · May 31, 2011

Great, another thread to wail that the sky is falling.

We don't get enough of those.

R gould · May 31, 2011

edp said:
Great, another thread to wail that the sky is falling.

We don't get enough of those.

Hear Hear, I am getting sick and tired of the doom and gloom type threads, Lets all just keep using film, and enjoying it, and celebrate the fact that that we still can,
Richard

stillsilver · May 31, 2011

What? The sky is falling?

tkamiya · May 31, 2011

It fell already. It's under your feet now. You didn't know that?

pbromaghin · May 31, 2011

If you don't like them, don't read them.

railwayman3 · May 31, 2011

R gould said:
Hear Hear, I am getting sick and tired of the doom and gloom type threads, Lets all just keep using film, and enjoying it, and celebrate the fact that that we still can,
Richard

Indeed, let's use and enjoy our film while we can....

But most people here care passionately about the analog side of photography, and the
regular string of actual bad news items about film product discontinuances, factory closures, redundancies and price rises are bound to cause worry and speculation. The "doom-and-gloom" threads are fairly easy to spot from the thread title for anyone who feels more comfortable to ignore them.

Gerald C Koch · May 31, 2011

Coen said:
Dodgy English i know. I'm Dutch, and making an educated guess my English is still better than your Hollands.

Your English is very good, I had no problem with your post.

BTW, the two languages are closely related perhaps more so than English and german.

MaximusM3 · May 31, 2011

My take on the matter...don't worry, be happy. You got film today, buy more, shoot more, enjoy life and family.

clay · May 31, 2011

I think Ilford will be around for a while as they have already scaled their operations to adjust to the new reality. I think the death knell for Kodak's film business will be when a critical mass of movie theaters convert to digital projection and film is no longer needed for movie distribution. A whole lot of film manufacturing capacity goes into making distribution stock for the movie business. Take that out of the equation, and all you have left is a couple hundred thousand enthusiasts like ourselves as the market. I think Ilford can live on that, since that is essentially their market today. I'm not so sure about Kodak.

How much longer can photographic film hold on?

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