Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

[canuhead]

that's very strange wording...'trade concern'. I'm Canadian so am used to unusual phrasing but I'm trying to decide if this translated from another language or what. The page is U.S. based so curious they didnt just say 'there's a possible issue with these batches...'

 

[mshchem]

The problem batches are probably made by new Tetenal - they are made in Germany.
I wonder whether the problems are all related to the packaging.
When Tetenal went under, they may very well have owed a bunch of money to a supplier of the formerly used bags.
Sort of like how when Kodak went under, Champion was a huge unpaid creditor and suffered horribly.

Yeah? I wondered if it might be Adox??? I have no idea. The New XTOL I got the first time worked just fine. It was different, much lower dust. I wondered if the vendor was using the same technology that Adox is using with fixer powder.
Who knows, I think Sino Promise may be bringing back everything, starting fresh across the board. The bottles that are used for the color chemistry coming out of China are top notch, these folks know how to produce chemistry. I would bet everything is going to China.

 

[mshchem]

The direct to customer sales site for the United Kingdom shows Bromophen as in-stock: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/1960549

Fascinating, when I go in it shows 2 powder film developers and Bromophen out of stock?
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/chemistry

IT'S BREXIT

 

[mshchem]

The direct to customer sales site for the United Kingdom shows Bromophen as in-stock: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/1960549

The plot gets even thicker. I used your link, it shows Bromophen in stock, I signed in using my existing account, opened the chemistry page which show several items out of stock. Microphen, DD, Bromophen and several others Oy what a pain. B&H shows Bromophen as in-stock, but of course for some inexplicable reason, in store pick up.

Nuts!

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The plot gets even thicker. I used your link, it shows Bromophen in stock, I signed in using my existing account, opened the chemistry page which show several items out of stock. Microphen, DD, Bromophen and several others Oy what a pain. B&H shows Bromophen as in-stock, but of course for some inexplicable reason, in store pick up.

Nuts!

Perhaps your results are showing some kind of USA stock? I don't know. As you say the whole situation with products at the moment seems rather "up in the air". I've not used Bromophen but I'm tempted to do so. I've never seen a comparison of where Bromophen sits within the all the other paper developers. For the most part I have been scratch mixing ID-78 and D-72 recently.

XTOL has been my standard film developer for a while now, so I have a vested interest in what happens to the product. Having said that I've experimented with Adox MQ Borax recently which seems to work well.

 

[Kino]

Great. Both bags. *Sigh*

Freestyle Photo on 9/23/2020

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Great. Both bags. Freestyle. *Sigh*

It would be helpful if Kodak Alaris indicated the scope of the problem.

 

[removedacct1]

I am aware of one processing lab that used to use Xtol exclusively for processing customer film, but since the previous Xtol recall, they switched to D-76 and have no plan to switch back for the foreseeable future. At this point, I am ready to start making my own Xtol. Anyone know where I can find a definitive recipe for an Xtol equivalent? I see many recipes, and few agree on proportions.

 

[Peter Schrager]

I am aware of one processing lab that used to use Xtol exclusively for processing customer film, but since the previous Xtol recall, they switched to D-76 and have no plan to switch back for the foreseeable future. At this point, I am ready to start making my own Xtol. Anyone know where I can find a definitive recipe for an Xtol equivalent? I see many recipes, and few agree on proportions.

haven't made any of the MYtol derivatives but Freestyle sells the eco ascorbic acid developer that's supposed to be like XTOL

 

[removedacct1]

haven't made any of the MYtol derivatives but Freestyle sells the eco ascorbic acid developer that's supposed to be like XTOL

I looked - its not in stock for at least a week. But thanks. At this point I think DIY is the better choice.

 

[mshchem]

I really like Bromophen, but I can live without it. This XTOL mess can't help but drive people into other suppliers. The backing paper mess, caused some serious financial pain for the unfortunate pro. The only company that I view as stable and running smoothly is Ilford. The now, not so new ownership is putting out good vibes. Excellent Internet outreach. The little video showing the folks at work making our paper and film is heartwarming to me.

Just to be safe I just ordered 5 boxes of Bromophen. I may be a dinosaur, I don't know anyone else that uses the stuff.

D-72 and D-52 is easy to make. I've got some stashes of good Kodak original sodium sulfite, pure white, free flowing, beautiful stuff. Same with KBr etc. I have Elon and Hydroquinone from Kodak but I bought it in 1973, so I think I will pass on that

 

[mshchem]

I looked - its not in stock for at least a week. But thanks. At this point I think DIY is the better choice.

Yeah, I looked last night, FS is out of a couple standard things, maybe they are getting more business

 

[pentaxuser]

Maybe just maybe SinoPromise as the "new broom" bought KA chemicals knowing that it if wants to make a success of this it has to somehow "clear the decks " and ensure that there are no more mistakes, so having spotted a fresh problem wishes to rid itself of this kind of uncertainty of a "will it be OK or not OK " in consumers' minds every time they purchase another chemical. The quickest way is to issue orders that distributors and retailers return all stock with these batch numbers and ensure that any already in consumers' hands are taken back and replaced quickly

Unusually optimistic speculation on my part of course about SinoPromise's intent to "start afresh" but frankly this makes sense to me even if it means that a lot of Xtol, some of which might be OK gets dumped. Better risking this extra cost than starting off on the wrong foot and risking what remains of customer goodwill to vanish thus ensuring that buying KA chemicals was the proverbial act of buying a "pig in a poke"

pentaxuser

 

[Kino]

I was preparing to dive off heavy into XTOL after some research, but this puts the kibosh on that plan.

Guess I'll move on to divided D76 until the mess is cleared-up...

 

[AgX]

Yeah? I wondered if it might be Adox??? I have no idea. The New XTOL I got the first time worked just fine. It was different, much lower dust. I wondered if the vendor was using the same technology that Adox is using with fixer powder.

Old Tetenal already was able to do so long ago.

 

[removedacct1]

all things considered it is far easier to scratch mix D-76 than XTOL and get nearly/virtually the same results (same tonality, very slightly different image structure).

Thank you Michael. Good information, which I will heed. I'd far rather DIY my D-76 anyway, as its easier to put together. I was a D-76 man for many years anyway, so it'll be familiar territory.

 

[mshchem]

Old Tetenal already was able to do so long ago.

I think it may be an EU mandate to reduce emissions. Adox inferred that this technology reduced the complexity of their new plant. Adox should jump on this and make some new product offerings.

 

[mshchem]

The closest formula would be the one in the patent.

However the nagging issue when scratch mixing anything with ascorbate is preventing the dreaded Fenton reaction (premature oxidation of ascorbate). You need the right iron sequestering agent, or else it will be difficult to predict shelf life.

Alternatively, D-76/ID-11 is very close to XTOL in working characteristics. XTOL is my favourite developer, and rather importantly in the history of black and white chemistry, was basically the first (and last) developer to improve on the D-76 speed-grain-sharpness balance. But the improvements are pretty small, so all things considered it is far easier to scratch mix D-76 than XTOL and get nearly/virtually the same results (same tonality, very slightly different image structure).

All true! I wouldn't try to make XTOL, but D-76 sure is a great developer and easy to make.

 

[AgX]

I think it may be an EU mandate to reduce emissions. Adox inferred that this technology reduced the complexity of their new plant. Adox should jump on this and make some new product offerings.

I rather assume granulating as added step in manufacture was not applied before for any photochemical product by any manufacturer (tablets aside) as by them no need was seen at consumer side.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The closest formula would be the one in the patent.

However the nagging issue when scratch mixing anything with ascorbate is preventing the dreaded Fenton reaction (premature oxidation of ascorbate). You need the right iron sequestering agent, or else it will be difficult to predict shelf life.

Alternatively, D-76/ID-11 is very close to XTOL in working characteristics. XTOL is my favourite developer, and rather importantly in the history of black and white chemistry, was basically the first (and last) developer to improve on the D-76 speed-grain-sharpness balance. But the improvements are pretty small, so all things considered it is far easier to scratch mix D-76 than XTOL and get nearly/virtually the same results (same tonality, very slightly different image structure).

I only mix XTOL from scratch directly from the bags, first Solution A and then when Solution A has completely absorbed the all the particles, I slowly add Solution B. So simple, no weighing. For me, I would never venture into buying and mixing the constituents because my photographs are valuable, perhaps unlike yours, and I have the maturity to wait for the products I need to be available and that is rarely hard since I can go to many suppliers.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I ordered two bags "to make 5 liters" as soon as I determined Xtol produced results I like (several months ago -- takes a while to get through five liters at 70ml replenishment per roll). Both bags are 2020/02/27 date code. I just sent an email.

At present, I have no plans to abandon Xtol, but if the time comes when I must, I'll mix my own -- either D-23 with DK-25 replenisher, or D-76 and D-76R. Having started replenishment, I find i quite like it. I find one-shot film developers (other than high dilution types like Rodinal derivatives) wasteful, and limited reuse with extended time is asking for mistakes -- at the least, missing recording a processing run and underdeveloping all following films in the same developer batch.

 

[MattKing]

X-Tol is the only practical alternative right now for small users who wish to use a replenishment regime with a self replenishing developer. T-Max RS has been reduced to the 25 litre packaging only, due to low sales of the smaller bottles.
I've done all the reaching out I can. My best source is away from the office until January 4th.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What are you talking about?

Simple others are talking about mixing chemicals from scratch. This is my version of that.

 

[eddie]

haven't made any of the MYtol derivatives but Freestyle sells the eco ascorbic acid developer that's supposed to be like XTOL

I've used the Eco-Pro/Legacy-Pro. It is identical to X-Tol. B&H lists it in stock.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I’m not sure what that has to do with maturity, the value of my photographs, or anything I wrote lol.

Translation of my post: My photographs are valuable so I will not weigh and measure chemicals. If yours are not feel free to play junior chemist.