Lack of repair reports for electronic SLRs: What is the cause?

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koraks

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But where are you going with this discussion? Defective parts from factories is fact.
I had a long-a$$ reply here, but you're right - let's not bother. You seem to be stuck on some ideas that are axiomatic to you, but are factually incorrect. Your defective Chinese Mac is just as Chinese (and definitely non-western) as any other 'good' Mac, as it the same for virtually every computer, phone or other consumer electronics product on the planet. The notion that Asian origins is somehow an indicator of poor manufacturing quality is a misconception that's surprisingly stubborn. The world of consumer electronics has been dominated for about 3 decades by South Korea, China, Thailand, the Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam to name a few, and more recently by other BRICs. They make a lot of $1 trinkets of horrible quality, as well as the newest iPhone that withstands years of daily abuse in the hands of a Western teenager.

The pertinence to the topic of camera repairs is indeed zero - it doesn't matter a hoot where a camera was originally made in terms of the complexity and success rate in performing repairs. And the thought that there's somehow a significant supply of factory-reject defective assemblies sold as spares is as random (and as false) as the idea that your Mac's LCD died because there's dirt on a connector as a result of the Chinese supposedly being unable to run a tidy shop (it would have been kind of funny if not for the undertone of this misconception, which is a much uglier than a broken computer screen).

The only thing you do make me wonder is why people, if they don't know or understand something, they sometimes take a wild and inherently uninformed guess at it and then proceed to be adamant in being right. That one will always puzzle me.
 
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koraks

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Yes, the DeHavilland link is nice. How it somehow relates to today's realities of electronics supply chains or QA practices in that industry eludes me, though. There's practically no relation.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Yes, the DeHavilland link is nice. How it somehow relates to today's realities of electronics supply chains or QA practices in that industry eludes me, though. There's practically no relation.

It's true that the best minds (not mine) assert themselves with vigor. That also moves the topics forward 😌

And yes, we can also learn something from the Mosquito when it comes to electronics; it was also successful as a night fighter with its associated electronic tracking system.

I greatly appreciate the peace and constructivness here on PHOTRIO. I come from German photography forums, have experience with the former Usenet and am familiar with different ways of interacting there 😇



I can't contribute anything to the „quality“ discussion, but in the cameras I've opened from the 1980s, I only see Japanese brand names on electronic components and circuit boards. Mitsubishi, TDK, Toshiba, and others.

They all still work today, so I assume they're of good quality.

The same applies to the circuitry.

Only with the Minolta 7000 AF seems to have been a miscalculation in the dimensioning of the transistors in the motor control; even the service manual mentions this.

It looks like this:

IMG_4116.jpeg


IMG_4117.jpeg
 

film4Me

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it doesn't matter a hoot where a camera was originally made in terms of the complexity and success rate in performing repairs. And the thought that there's somehow a significant supply of factory-reject defective assemblies sold as spares is as random (and as false) as the idea that your Mac's LCD died because there's dirt on a connector as a result of the Chinese supposedly being unable to run a tidy shop (it would have been kind of funny if not for the undertone of this misconception, which is a much uglier than a broken computer screen).
I'll desist koraks. My 17" screen was one of hundreds, possibly thousands that developed that defect, and among the blogs I read, there was one poster who was brave enough to strip his computer down and he explained that how he got it working was to get the LCD's contacts to make better contact with their mating parts.

I said: "I believe they needed cleaning", and the factory did a poor job, and it seems they did do a poor job, they became seriously defective way before the end of an anticipated lifespan of such a product. Faulty parts and products from China and Asia is a commonly known fact. Honestly, I could write a book about them.
 

koraks

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"I believe they needed cleaning", and the factory did a poor job, and it seems they did do a poor job, they became seriously defective way before the end of an anticipated lifespan of such a product. Faulty parts and products from China and Asia is a commonly known fact.

You don't (and cannot) know the root cause of this problem, likewise you cannot state that Chinese origin of the product is part of this root cause. The conclusion is that your statements are based on preconceptions that are ethically dubious and factually difficult or impossible to support. It's a very disturbing attitude for several reasons.
Anyway, I'll stop here because this discussion is indeed not going anywhere. Good luck with the book.

@Andreas Thaler my apologies for the diversion; let's get back to the topic of camera repairs.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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All I can say is that „electronics“ has a certain aura of incomprehensibility, which is why people don't even attempt repairs. Although there are certainly opportunities, even without a degree in electronics.
 

4season

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My film camera repairs have ground to a halt: I already own too many of the things! I've already succeeded in repairing electronic cameras by Nikon, Pentax, Minolta, Pentacon, Minox and maybe others that I've forgotten. But I'd rather spend my time photographing, rather than fixing cameras.
 

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I once owned 2 Canonets 28 rangefinders equiped with a CdS photo cell, 70ies style of electronics. The electronics failed I thought on one of them but in the end it was presumably the CdS cell which died. I didn't bother anymore as I was fed up wasting my time demounting and mounting the old bugger for at least 3 times without succes. DIY. It's a very time consuming matter which I rather spend on making pictures instead of soldering and repairing. I switched to a newer type of AF equiped filmcamera's from the 90ies. Bought 4 ex. Nikon F90X and 1 ex F90 and a F100 in order to have the luxery (due it's/their relative cheapness) to take another camera out of my drawer when one is failing and continue to shoot and develop the film in my darkroom without having to start worrying on the possible fault and repair. So my advice: when you have settled on a model, start buying a large amount of bodies which work of it and relax and enjoy shooting with it. I did and I'm a happy man.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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So my advice: when you have settled on a model, start buying a large amount of bodies which work of it and relax and enjoy shooting with it. I did and I'm a happy man.

1.jpg


I'm happy because they all work after some time spent with them. And for me, repairing is fun, so I'm a doubly happy man. 😉
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Perhaps the lack of repair reports on newer electronic cameras is also due to the fact that DIY repairs are viewed as attractive as fixing a washing machine or an iron. Valuable time invested in a consumer product that has been produced in the hundreds of thousands and can be replaced cheaply.

Unlike a flashing chrome camera from the 1950s, which is special and attractive simply because it doesn't have any electronics. Because where there's electronics, the fun quickly dies down 😝
 

rhmimac

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View attachment 394034

I'm happy because they all work after some time spent with them. And for me, repairing is fun, so I'm a doubly happy man. 😉

oh, it's you who bought all the T90's on the bay! Great collection! 😃😉
You must be a happy man indeed. Sorry for the other Canon T90 shooters out there...
I can't resist on buying any F90X when I encounter one. On the 5 I have now in my possession, not one ever needed one DIY electronic intervention. So for me the 90ies prosumer Nikon AF bodies are one of the most dependable of them all as for electronics and motors, also no green LCD bleeding which is the F4's weak point for sure.
The F100 also looks like holding on very strong as for electronic parts. I left it once accidentally outside in the rain in a Lowepro holster for 1 night. Dried the body and lens together in the sun the day after. No harm done. Functioned as new afterwards.

Is this all the same durability and good electronic work for the 80ies Canon T90 bodies too? The japanese called it "the tank" for a good reason I presume.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Is this all the same durability and good electronic work for the 80ies Canon T90 bodies too? The japanese called it "the tank" for a good reason I presume.

It has its well-known flaws, but all of them are fixable except for one.

The shutter works perfectly even after decades, and the mechanism is solid.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Regarding the Canon T90, I'd like to point you again to this excellent Italian site, which goes into detail about the technology.

Here it is, translated into English using Google Translate:

 
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Andreas Thaler

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It's also interesting to me that there's little interest in popular electronic cameras from the 1980s here in the forum, at least in terms of participation in threads.

I'm referring to Minolta's first two AF SLRs, the (Maxxum/Alpha) 7000 AF and 9000 AF.

These were top stars of their time, and at least the 7000 was produced in high numbers. Both have their weaknesses, but they're nice to repair.

If I were to report on the Minolta XM/XK instead, which are even more mechanically advanced, things would certainly be different 😝
 

4season

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Nikon F4: Loved it "back in the day", but always felt it's autofocus was kind of primitive, and today, feel like it's reliance on AA batteries makes it awkwardly large and heavy.

Mamiya 6, Fujifilm 645Zi: I don't care to revisit these at today's prices.

Minolta CLE, Hasselblad Xpan/Fujifilm TX-1, Contax G2, Leica M7, Minolta TC-1, Bronica RF645, Konica Hexar RF: Would love to try these "for the right price", but not at typical eBay prices.

Bronica ETRSi: Already fixed, not too difficult, but not so cheap anymore either.

Pentax P3/P30, Minox 35, Olympus XA: They're okay once serviced, but how many does a person need?

Pentax MZ/ZX-series: Brittle plastics don't inspire a lot of confidence. Not super-quiet either.

Canon Rebel G: Love it - cheap, quiet, good AF. So far mine has needed no servicing at all.

Minolta X700: Lots of work to restore a rather cheaply-made camera.

Compact, autofocus cameras: I inherited several of these, and only one (Canon) mostly works. I suspect broken plastic gears and flexible PCB may be the problem, but how much time/effort do I want to invest in these? I'll probably repair the Canon, but I'm not sure about the others.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Minolta X700: Lots of work to restore a rather cheaply-made camera.

True, but it is not cheaply made, but smart 😌

 

4season

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True, but it is not cheaply made, but smart 😌


Compared to Nikon F3, I stand by my statement: I'd rather see solid-tantalum SMD capacitors than the consumer-grade epoxy-dipped and aluminum electrolytic capacitors used by Minolta.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Compared to Nikon F3, I stand by my statement: I'd rather see solid-tantalum SMD capacitors than the consumer-grade epoxy-dipped and aluminum electrolytic capacitors used by Minolta.

These are two different camera classes, even though they were the respective top models.

While the F3 has the advantage in robustness, the 700 counters with electronic finesse, such as the MPS system. In this respect, it beats the Nikon.
 

4season

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These are two different camera classes, even though they were the respective top models.

While the F3 has the advantage in robustness, the 700 counters with electronic finesse, such as the MPS system. In this respect, it beats the Nikon.

Film-camera tech features are not a high priority for me in 2025, because they tend to look very dated when compared to more modern digital cameras.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Film-camera tech features are not a high priority for me in 2025, because they tend to look very dated when compared to more modern digital cameras.

But we're discussing film cameras, not digital cameras, aren't we?

If we want to expose film, we have to consider the cameras available including their features.
 

George Mann

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Nikon F4: Loved it "back in the day", but always felt it's autofocus was kind of primitive, and today, feel like it's reliance on AA batteries makes it awkwardly large and heavy.

Lithium AA's allow for a noticeable reduction in weight.
 
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