My PC-512 Borax Developer

[Alan Johnson]

I wondered if DCM18 [or PCM20] might serve as a long lasting concentrate to replace my syrup HC-110 when it is eventually used up.

HC-110 syrup is discontinued.
PC-TEA is an alternative but is harder to make up as the ascorbic acid is slow to dissolve in TEA.
DCM18- the ascorbic acid dissolves quite easily in the metaborate solution and it is less viscous than PC-TEA.

A resolution chart~5.5 in wide was attached to a Kodak grey card and was photographed on Delta 400 film with a 6 element 50mm lens at f8 from the correct distance illuminated by off camera flash, EI=400.
Sections of the film were developed at 20C HC-110 1+47 8.75m, PC-TEA 1+50 8m, DCM18 1+47 10m.The PC-TEA negatives were slightly more dense.
Negatives were scanned at 3600 dpi true and output with the scanner on auto except for white point adjustment to show the lines on the resolution chart.

jpegs are attached, prints were made on A4 paper.
I concluded that HC-110 and PC-TEA show about the same grain, DCM18 showed less grain.
In support of this result it is noted in The Film Developing Cookbook 2020 p123 that a developer thought to correspond closely to DD-X produces finer grain than "an HC-110 type" developer. Also that DEA causes much higher granularity.

Resolution under the microscope was ~80 lppm at low contrast for PC-TEA and even lower contrast for HC-110 and DCM18.

Conclusion- if DCM18 or a PCM variant prove to be long lasting they could be a substitute for HC-110 syrup.

 

[lamerko]

Hello,
I decided to mix DCM18 but...
My metaborate is lumpy and very difficult to dissolve in propylene glycol. I ground up the lumps as much as I could... I added ascorbic acid and this thing fizzed pretty loud. Well, it was supposed, the acid was neutralized after all. But what should the pH of the working solution be? Won't those 12 grams of ascorbic acid lower the pH too much?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Where do you guys get your Dimezone-S from?

 

[lamerko]

I don't have Dimezone-S, I use methylphenidone instead.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I don't have Dimezone-S, I use methylphenidone instead.

Is that a direct substitute for Dimezone-S?

 

[lamerko]

In one of my books it says that methylphenidone is as active as phenidone and can be substituted 1:1. Or in this case, 0.5 grams should be put. But I put in about 0.6 grams because I wasn't too sure about the pH. In a day or so I'll find out what happened...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

In one of my books it says that methylphenidone is as active as phenidone and can be substituted 1:1. Or in this case, 0.5 grams should be put. But I put in about 0.6 grams because I wasn't too sure about the pH. In a day or so I'll find out what happened...

Where do you source your chemicals? I've been using Argentix here in Canada, but he is out of so much, and doesn't carry methylphenidone.

 

[lamerko]

It might be weird, but I actually got it from a seller in Ukraine. Despite the difficulties there and the fact that the seller is located near the front line, the delivery was seamless.

 

[Alan Johnson]

I used dimezone-s because I have a stash of it ,it can be replaced by 0.5g phenidone as in post 301, formula PCM20. The pH of this [working solution] was 9.15,post 300.
Looking round I guess dimezone-s is pretty hard to find. PCM20 will be a little more active than DCM18 because of the extra metaborate but HC-110 dilutions and times should still be a good start.

 

[john_s]

Where do you source your chemicals? I've been using Argentix here in Canada, but he is out of so much, and doesn't carry methylphenidone.

Andrew, in a post not so long ago, it think it was established that "methylphenidone" is another name for one of the older phenidones. This text below is something I copied from a post somewhere, sometime, I can't remember. The list contains some alternative names. If there are errors, please let us know:

Phenidone A
Name: 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone
CAS: 92-43-3
Molecular Formula: C9H10N2O
Molecular Weight: 162.189


Phenidone B
Name: 1-Phenyl-4-methyl-3-pyrazolidone
CAS: 2654-57-1
Molecular Formula: C10H12N2O
Molecular Weight: 176.215

Dimezone
Molecular Formula C11H14N2O
4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone (CAS 2654-58-2)
4,4-dimethyl-1-phenylpyrazolidin-3-one
4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone
4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone
Molecular Weight 190.24


Dimezone S
(4-Hydroxymethyl-4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-3-Pyrazolidinone)
CAS Number 13047-13-7
Formula C11H14N2O2
Molecular Weight 206.24

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Andrew, in a post not so long ago, it think it was established that "methylphenidone" is another name for one of the older phenidones. This text below is something I copied from a post somewhere, sometime, I can't remember. The list contains some alternative names. If there are errors, please let us know:

Phenidone A
Name: 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone
CAS: 92-43-3
Molecular Formula: C9H10N2O
Molecular Weight: 162.189


Phenidone B
Name: 1-Phenyl-4-methyl-3-pyrazolidone
CAS: 2654-57-1
Molecular Formula: C10H12N2O
Molecular Weight: 176.215

Dimezone
Molecular Formula C11H14N2O
4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone (CAS 2654-58-2)
4,4-dimethyl-1-phenylpyrazolidin-3-one
4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone
4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone
Molecular Weight 190.24


Dimezone S
(4-Hydroxymethyl-4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-3-Pyrazolidinone)
CAS Number 13047-13-7
Formula C11H14N2O2
Molecular Weight 206.24

Thank you, John.

 

[JWMster]

FWIW, Freestyle in California has Bellini's Dimezone S. So this can be sourced. Check your local BC Canadian supplier.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

FWIW, Freestyle in California has Bellini's Dimezone S. So this can be sourced. Check your local BC Canadian supplier.

I'll use Phenidone as it's easy to source in Canada. Thanks.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I'll use Phenidone as it's easy to source in Canada. Thanks.

+1 Andy! No one has shown me any reason to hunt down Domezone-S over Phenidone. If it made a difference in the final outcome, I might, but as yet there's not a donuts difference that I can sere.

 

[john_s]

+1 Andy! No one has shown me any reason to hunt down Domezone-S over Phenidone. If it made a difference in the final outcome, I might, but as yet there's not a donuts difference that I can sere.

It is reputed to keep better in aqueous solution. However it seems that Ilford use Phenidone A, Phenidone B or Dimezone S in various developers for no reason that I can deduce.

 

[JWMster]

FWIW, I'm using the phenidone version, too.... 'cause the Dimezone S variant came after my buying spree.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Photo Engineer added a precaution to be followed when heating propylene glycol:

Mixing Pyrocat-HD and Propylene Glycol

I've been through many threads with keywords identical to the title of this thread, but can't find the answer to my question. I just want to mix Pyrocat-HD with glycol instead of distilled water in order to prolong the life of Stock Solution A. Sandy King suggested warming the glycol when mixing...

www.photrio.com

Of course that would apply whatever is being dissolved in it.

 

[koraks]

Photo Engineer added a precaution to be followed when heating propylene glycol:

The only darkroom accident I ever had (so far, knock on wood) was with propylene glycol. I heated it in a microwave a container that was ill-suited for it, and long story short, it pretty much exploded and some globs of hot glycol landed on my arm. No permanent damage or anything, but it was annoying for a couple of days. It helped that I always mix small quantities of stuff like this; in this case it was a small 50ml batch. Lower volume = lower impact if something goes wrong.

Careful with glycol. I now prefer to heat it (if I need to, which isn't often) au bain marie, so in a hot water jacket. This is pretty much safe.

 

[lamerko]

I have a magnetic stirrer with a hot plate. Very useful thing, but sometimes I'm too lazy to take it out and assemble for something small, like yesterday with the preparation of 100ml D(P)CM18. And I'm sorry I didn't use it...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I heat it in 10 sec intervals in the microwave.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

...same with TEA.

 

[relistan]

I wondered if DCM18 [or PCM20] might serve as a long lasting concentrate to replace my syrup HC-110 when it is eventually used up.

HC-110 syrup is discontinued.
PC-TEA is an alternative but is harder to make up as the ascorbic acid is slow to dissolve in TEA.
DCM18- the ascorbic acid dissolves quite easily in the metaborate solution and it is less viscous than PC-TEA.

A resolution chart~5.5 in wide was attached to a Kodak grey card and was photographed on Delta 400 film with a 6 element 50mm lens at f8 from the correct distance illuminated by off camera flash, EI=400.
Sections of the film were developed at 20C HC-110 1+47 8.75m, PC-TEA 1+50 8m, DCM18 1+47 10m.The PC-TEA negatives were slightly more dense.
Negatives were scanned at 3600 dpi true and output with the scanner on auto except for white point adjustment to show the lines on the resolution chart.

jpegs are attached, prints were made on A4 paper.
I concluded that HC-110 and PC-TEA show about the same grain, DCM18 showed less grain.
In support of this result it is noted in The Film Developing Cookbook 2020 p123 that a developer thought to correspond closely to DD-X produces finer grain than "an HC-110 type" developer. Also that DEA causes much higher granularity.

Resolution under the microscope was ~80 lppm at low contrast for PC-TEA and even lower contrast for HC-110 and DCM18.

Conclusion- if DCM18 or a PCM variant prove to be long lasting they could be a substitute for HC-110 syrup.

That looks quite good, Alan. Also, it looks better than the PC-TEA, which more scientifically bears out my own experience.

 

[JWMster]

Thanks to this thread, I've switched from a D23 guy to using PC-512. Separately, I'm also mixing TF-3 Fixer, a Sodium Sulfite Hypo and using LFN, so a 100% recently new process, and I'm hanging my film on a 45 degree angle. The chemistry is pretty simple, inexpensive and mixes just 1 liter at a time with emphasis on one-use (except for the Fixer). Didn't expect to land on the "Fresh every time" crowd, but I guess that's where I am. And surprised to find out how simple and satisfying it can be. Feel like I've gotten control - at last ( or at least "more" control ).

 

[relistan]

Thanks to this thread, I've switched from a D23 guy to using PC-512. Separately, I'm also mixing TF-3 Fixer, a Sodium Sulfite Hypo and using LFN, so a 100% recently new process, and I'm hanging my film on a 45 degree angle. The chemistry is pretty simple, inexpensive and mixes just 1 liter at a time with emphasis on one-use (except for the Fixer). Didn't expect to land on the "Fresh every time" crowd, but I guess that's where I am. And surprised to find out how simple and satisfying it can be. Feel like I've gotten control - at last ( or at least "more" control ).

Hey, that's great! Glad to hear that this is working out for you. Would love to see some examples if you get anything you are willing to post. Mixing your own stuff can be rewarding and fun. And as long as there are ingredients in the cupboard you don't have to worry about the now frequent supply issues

 

[John Wiegerink]

I want to thank Karl for showing use his results and formula for PC-512. I also want to really thank Alan for doing want I wanted to do in the beginning of this thread, and that was using Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) vs Borax. I mixed up a batch of PCM-18 glycol and developed a roll of film out of an old Zeiss folder and must say it worked perfectly using HC-110's 1+47 times. Actually, I used a dilution of 1+50 instead of 1+47. It seems to have a very good balance as to grain and sharpness. Some people think they have to have the sharpest (edge definition) negatives to make an excellent print. I'm not one of them! I like well defined, smooth negatives with good detail and this developer seems to deliver it. At least it did with that roll film folders uncoated Zeiss lens anyway. I might have different results using one of my fancy SMC coated Takumars on my Pentax 67.