My PC-512 Borax Developer

[relistan]

Yes, absolutely; I've just updated it! Please let me know if it's OK like this.

Perfect, thanks for that!

 

[Alan Johnson]

Ilford Delta 100 in this developer is reliable and not difficult to scan and edit:

 

[John Wiegerink]

Ilford Delta 100 in this developer is reliable and not difficult to scan and edit:

Very nice Alan and I see none of those dreaded white spots either. When I tried PC-512 and PCM20 neither developer caused white specks on my Delta 100. I'm a fan of Delta 100 and it seems to do well in many developers and the same goes for PC-512. I don't use Kodak TMX or TMY2 films and wonder if PC-512 might not be a good match for those also.

 

[pentaxuser]

Good point! I accidentally grabbed a bottle of Sodium Ascorbate when I was mixing it up last night.

Do that often enough and you can end up with scurvy Not a good thing even for the brown bears. I imagine the Dad bear saying to his son. "Put that man down, son, I don't like the look of him . You don't know what he's been mixing at home

pentaxuser

 

[relistan]

Ilford Delta 100 in this developer is reliable and not difficult to scan and edit:

Nice result @Alan Johnson . This is the film I actually used to "develop" this developer. For the last 6-7 years it has been my go-to film.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Here's a short video, push processing a roll of HP5 at EI 800 in PC-512. Not much of a push, but I sure do love this film at that EI.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Thanks Andy! I think Karl's PC-512 is a very good developer and your video shows just that. If I weren't using XT-3R, which has good keeping power/shelf life, PC-512 would be worth experimenting with.
I know many folks rate HP5+ at EI200 or EI250, but I find that with XT-3R or even Pyrocat-HDC, box speed of ISO400 and for some scenes EI650 is my pick.

 

[pentaxuser]

Andrew, thanks for the video. The pics in the woods looked pretty dark and slightly drab given how bright and partially sunny it was on the video. Is that down to the development being too short as you mentioned or does EI 800 have anything to do with it?

Don't bother to look up how far you have got to walk to use up the calories in a donut, it's just too depressing

Do Canadians in BC say "aboot" for about? If so that will be the Scottish influence from the "old days"

Maybe the male Nova Scotians address those whose first names they don't know as "Jimmie"?

pentaxuser

 

[Alan9940]

This thread and Andrew's video prompted me to give PC-512 a try. My first roll is hanging to dry.

I have a question about storing both the solution A and the borax solution because during the hotter months (most of the year here in the desert southwest) storing at room temp would cause development times to be too short. I have a cooler that runs at about 58-60F where I store some chemistry. Would it be okay to store the PC-512 solutions in there or would I see something precipitate out at those temps?

 

[relistan]

This thread and Andrew's video prompted me to give PC-512 a try. My first roll is hanging to dry.

I have a question about storing both the solution A and the borax solution because during the hotter months (most of the year here in the desert southwest) storing at room temp would cause development times to be too short. I have a cooler that runs at about 58-60F where I store some chemistry. Would it be okay to store the PC-512 solutions in there or would I see something precipitate out at those temps?

Hey @Alan9940 sorry for the slow response, wasn't on this week! Glad you are giving it a try, look forward to seeing your results. Yeah, the glycol solution will store at that temp with no issues.

It's possible to see some precipitation in the borax solution at those temps if you mix it up fully to start with. @Alan Johnson reported that to me. He also said that he filtered it with cotton balls and development was as normal. So if you do see any precipitate, that is one solution. Another is to mix up the borax part just before use. Or it may not precipitate at all.

 

[relistan]

Here's a short video, push processing a roll of HP5 at EI 800 in PC-512. Not much of a push, but I sure do love this film at that EI.

Thanks, great results and fun video, too.

 

[Alan9940]

Hey @Alan9940 sorry for the slow response, wasn't on this week! Glad you are giving it a try, look forward to seeing your results. Yeah, the glycol solution will store at that temp with no issues.

It's possible to see some precipitation in the borax solution at those temps if you mix it up fully to start with. @Alan Johnson reported that to me. He also said that he filtered it with cotton balls and development was as normal. So if you do see any precipitate, that is one solution. Another is to mix up the borax part just before use. Or it may not precipitate at all.

Thank you so much for the reply.

I actually would prefer to mix the borax solution just prior to use, but I didn't find it easy to fully mix it into even warmed water, let alone room temp and/or something close to 20C. I finally put the beaker on my heated magnetic stirrer and let it run for about 1/2 hour, and the solution finally mixed thoroughly together. Since I was mixing the borax into RO water, I doubt there was anything peculiar about the water causing the mixing issue. Then, I had to let it cool back down to room temp before I could use it. A quick search on the interwebs lead me to believe that borax, in general, is not easy to mix into water. If you or anyone has any tricks for mixing the PC-512 borax solution immediately before use, I'm listening...

 

[Alan Johnson]

I made up 5L of borax solution in warm tapwater and filtered it giving a clear solution for use. After a few weeks I noticed the clear solution had a few "floaters" in which were filtered off through cotton wool. The floaters are probably compounds of other metals present in tapwater with borate.
This filtered solution is fine for use with the PC-512 part.

Now to avoid having to filter off any floaters I am trying adding EDTA at 1g/L before adding the borax when making up the 5L. After 2 weeks the solution is still clear. I would guess that using sodium hexametaphosphate instead of EDTA would work just as well. If this solution does not stay clear I will report back in this thread.

btw, the solubility of borax decahydrate in water is given as 47 g/L at 20C.

https://www.borax.com/BoraxCorp/media/Borax-Main/Resources/Data-Sheets/borax-decahydrate.pdf?ext=.pdf#:~:text=Incorporated%20in%20many%20aqueous%20systems,the%20surface%20of%20the%20metal.

 

[bluechromis]

Thank you so much for the reply.

I actually would prefer to mix the borax solution just prior to use, but I didn't find it easy to fully mix it into even warmed water, let alone room temp and/or something close to 20C. I finally put the beaker on my heated magnetic stirrer and let it run for about 1/2 hour, and the solution finally mixed thoroughly together. Since I was mixing the borax into RO water, I doubt there was anything peculiar about the water causing the mixing issue. Then, I had to let it cool back down to room temp before I could use it. A quick search on the interwebs lead me to believe that borax, in general, is not easy to mix into water. If you or anyone has any tricks for mixing the PC-512 borax solution immediately before use, I'm listening...

The borax I get usually comes in granular form. However, if I grind it into powder in a coffee grinder, it dissolves in water much faster.

 

[relistan]

If you or anyone has any tricks for mixing the PC-512 borax solution immediately before use, I'm listening...

This may depend on your borax source. What I have here in Ireland dissolves quite easily with warm water and is a little hazy but without floaters.

Now to avoid having to filter off any floaters I am trying adding EDTA at 1g/L before adding the borax when making up the 5L. After 2 weeks the solution is still clear. I would guess that using sodium hexametaphosphate instead of EDTA would work just as well. If this solution does not stay clear I will report back in this thread.

Ah, very interesting idea. I have loads of EDTA and can easily try that as well. The borax I normally use must be of good quality because I don't have much of an issue. But I have 20 Mule Team borax from the supermarket in the US and have not tried it yet. This might be useful if that turns out to be harder to use.

btw, the solubility of borax decahydrate in water is given as 47 g/L at 20C.

https://www.borax.com/BoraxCorp/media/Borax-Main/Resources/Data-Sheets/borax-decahydrate.pdf?ext=.pdf#:~:text=Incorporated%20in%20many%20aqueous%20systems,the%20surface%20of%20the%20metal.

Yes, that is what I had found a few years back as well. We should be nowhere near solubility limits.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've been using borax from the supermarket. Lots of floaters, but running it through a coffee filter takes care of them, and does not affect development.

 

[Alan9940]

This may depend on your borax source. What I have here in Ireland dissolves quite easily with warm water and is a little hazy but without floaters.

The borax I have was purchased from ArtCraft Chemicals (USA) and is a pretty fine powder. I buy a lot of raw chemistry from this source and have never had any issues. Yeah, my borax solution didn't have any floaters, either, but was quite "milky." I think, maybe, I caused my own problem because I just dumped the borax in all at once. Next time, I'll try introducing small amounts at a time and, hopefully, the solution will clear before the next bit goes in.

All this actually leads me to a question: Can the borax solution be used if it's a little hazy or "milky" as long as there aren't any floaters?

 

[relistan]

The borax I have was purchased from ArtCraft Chemicals (USA) and is a pretty fine powder. I buy a lot of raw chemistry from this source and have never had any issues. Yeah, my borax solution didn't have any floaters, either, but was quite "milky." I think, maybe, I caused my own problem because I just dumped the borax in all at once. Next time, I'll try introducing small amounts at a time and, hopefully, the solution will clear before the next bit goes in.

All this actually leads me to a question: Can the borax solution be used if it's a little hazy or "milky" as long as there aren't any floaters?

Yes, it can be used when milky. That's how it usually is at first. Just make sure, as you say, that there aren't fine grains floating. When dissolving it, yeah, just stir while you slowly pour it in and it should be fine.

 

[Alan9940]

Yes, it can be used when milky. That's how it usually is at first. Just make sure, as you say, that there aren't fine grains floating. When dissolving it, yeah, just stir while you slowly pour it in and it should be fine.

Thank you

 

[Alan Johnson]

After 1 month the addition of 1g/L EDTA to the Borax solution in my hard water prevented the formation of "floaters". Sodium hexametaphosphate ("Calgon" in US but not Europe) at 1g/L would probably also be satisfactory for this.

 

[Sidd]

This may depend on your borax source. What I have here in Ireland dissolves quite easily with warm water and is a little hazy but without floaters.



Ah, very interesting idea. I have loads of EDTA and can easily try that as well. The borax I normally use must be of good quality because I don't have much of an issue. But I have 20 Mule Team borax from the supermarket in the US and have not tried it yet. This might be useful if that turns out to be harder to use.



Yes, that is what I had found a few years back as well. We should be nowhere near solubility limits.

The borax I get here in India is perfectly soluble, although it takes quite some time to dissolve, the solution I get is transparent. Yes, definitely the issue is quality of borax.

 

[Sidd]

After 1 month the addition of 1g/L EDTA to the Borax solution in my hard water prevented the formation of "floaters". Sodium hexametaphosphate ("Calgon" in US but not Europe) at 1g/L would probably also be satisfactory for this.

EDTA you use is Tetra-sodium surely? Although I use left over water from our drinking RO water bottles for developers, I don't think using a bit of EDTA or Na- hexametaphosphate will do no harm, and clear the metallic impurities, if any.

 

[Alan Johnson]

EDTA you use is Tetra-sodium surely? Although I use left over water from our drinking RO water bottles for developers, I don't think using a bit of EDTA or Na- hexametaphosphate will do no harm, and clear the metallic impurities, if any.

EDTA I use is the most common form, CAS 139-33-3, EDTA disodium salt.

 

[Sidd]

EDTA I use is the most common form, CAS 139-33-3, EDTA disodium salt.

Okay, I'll use that. Thank you.