mystery incompatible films with Lab-Box

[fs999]

The advantage of the Lab-Box is that you don't need a dark room or a changing bag to use it.

I go to my cellar to load the film in the dark

 

[md_photo]

Lab box is pretty convenient, but I have had the issue of 120 film curling up and losing most of the frames, which someone mentioned upthread. Couple of weeks ago I tried Acros 120 expired in 2019 (and I don't think that's PET), and part of it ended up in the cylinder and most curled up outside. Still went ahead and developed and salvaged 3 out of 10 frames.

 

[md_photo]

Did some googl-ing and found this on a flickr discussion: "For me, Foma XXX 120 got stuck in the module film chamber. That was before I realised you had to have the film chamber bone dry (or rather, that you can remove the part to dry it properly) and I ended up pulling both film and backing paper out as it relies on a lack of friction to gather the film up properly into the chamber. This also happened with a roll of HP5+. " I know I don't pull out the film cylinder for drying. Could I have had some moisture in there the times I have failed. And I don't think I haven't used any PET films in the lab box.

 

[MattKing]

I go to my cellar to load the film in the dark

You have a cellar!
For many people, that is an incredible luxury.

 

[grat]

You have a cellar!
For many people, that is an incredible luxury.

I live in Florida. We don't have cellars-- we have the water table instead.

I think my problem with the Lab-Box is that you don't really know whether you loaded it successfully or not until the film's developed, whereas with the Patterson reels, you know it's not loaded properly.

Actually, my success rate has been perfect with the Patterson / AP reels (prefer the AP reels for 120)-- although one of them got a bit mangled at the front end while loading.

 

[George Mann]

I just bought a Rondinax 35. This has me worried as I want to use whatever films I can get the cheapest in it, and continue to send my Delta 100 to dr5 for reversal.

 

[Auer]

I just bought a Rondinax 35. This has me worried as I want to use whatever films I can get the cheapest in it, and continue to send my Delta 100 to dr5 for reversal.

I know nothing about a Rondinax, but as stated there are a few films that dont work well with the LB.

Do Trial and Error and find out, I have done well with some films that are not supposed to work well with the cutter on the LB (Foma 35mm)

 

[Auer]

I tried a few rolls of Foma Retropan 320 in 120 in the LB for fun, and it seems to work fine for me.

From the spec sheet:
The following bases are used for manufacturing the particular sorts of the film:
– 120 rollfilm - a clear polyester base 0.1 mm thick, furnished with an antihalo colour
backing which will decolourize during processing.
– 35 mm film - a gray or gray-blue cellulose triacetate base 0.125 mm thick

 

[drmoss_ca]

Ars-Imago has a list of PET films at https://www.lab-box.it/support

I've had 120 film wad up outside the film cylinder instead of curling inside the film cylinder as it should.

That list omits Adox CHS 100 II, and any discontinued Adox CHS 25 you might still have in the freezer.

My beef with the Lab-Box is that it doesn't light seal the chamber properly, so when I take the lid off to clip on the strap I spoil the first frame (and yes, I keep the knob rotated hard to the right!) I'll find out later this week if the CHS II 100 cuts OK in a Rondinax 35u.

 

[drmoss_ca]

I just bought a Rondinax 35. This has me worried as I want to use whatever films I can get the cheapest in it, and continue to send my Delta 100 to dr5 for reversal.

I've been using a 35u for years and haven't yet had any problems at all. Eventually I motorized it, and I'm now on my second motor as I wore out the plastic gears on the first from using it so much!

 

[Auer]

That list omits Adox CHS 100 II, and any discontinued Adox CHS 25 you might still have in the freezer.

My beef with the Lab-Box is that it doesn't light seal the chamber properly, so when I take the lid off to clip on the strap I spoil the first frame (and yes, I keep the knob rotated hard to the right!) I'll find out later this week if the CHS II 100 cuts OK in a Rondinax 35u.

I only have this issue with 120, and simply adjust for it by leaving a little less space at the start of a roll in the camera.

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I only have this issue with 120, and simply adjust for it by leaving a little less space at the start of a roll in the camera.

Yeah, that was an adjustment to make on 120. You don't have a whole lot of room to work with, though.

There are a couple other points about the Lab-Box that you have to watch out for.

• Always rotate clockwise. Never rotate backwards, or your film can come unwound and start to bunch up.
• The knob works better than the crank. The crank can put leverage on the spindle and come out,
• Continuous agitation works far better than periodic. There isn't a whole lot of space in the Lab-Box at the top, and even if you fill it all the way up, you may have some film sticking out. Better to just forget it and just do continuous in the first place.
• Don't rotate too fast. Just do it enough to continually refresh the developer. Speed gives you no advantage, and can lead to those sprocket hole streaky effects (I forget what they're called).
• Watch your fixing stage. It's easy to do it incompletely. Do it again if it didn't finish.

 

[Auer]

Yeah, that was an adjustment to make on 120. You don't have a whole lot of room to work with, though.

There are a couple other points about the Lab-Box that you have to watch out for.

• Always rotate clockwise. Never rotate backwards, or your film can come unwound and start to bunch up.
• The knob works better than the crank. The crank can put leverage on the spindle and come out,
• Continuous agitation works far better than periodic. There isn't a whole lot of space in the Lab-Box at the top, and even if you fill it all the way up, you may have some film sticking out. Better to just forget it and just do continuous in the first place.
• Don't rotate too fast. Just do it enough to continually refresh the developer. Speed gives you no advantage, and can lead to those sprocket hole streaky effects (I forget what they're called).
• Watch your fixing stage. It's easy to do it incompletely. Do it again if it didn't finish.

Crank is necessary IMO for continuos rotation use, I keep mine in place with a small tab of painters tape on the collar to stop it from turning loose.
Just a small piece, maybe 3/4" or so.

 

[drmoss_ca]

The Rondinax 35u failed to cut through the PET base of Adox CHS 100 II this morning. Lights out, lid off, scissors used. I guess I could sharpen the blade, but I'll likely just develop the rest of the rolls in a conventional tank. There would be no problem with the film in 120 format in a Rondinax 60, as nothing gets cut.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I've been using a 35u for years and haven't yet had any problems at all. Eventually I motorized it, and I'm now on my second motor as I wore out the plastic gears on the first from using it so much!

Ich bin sicher sowas oder sowas ähnliches wird es auch bald für die LabBox geben.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I've struggled with the LabBox a bit. I unsuccessfully tried to use some PET films for a while, which, as I have since learned, wasn't going to be successful. The blade just can't cut them. I have tended to lose one frame on my 120 rolls, so I'm not too keen on doing that again.

Using 490ml and intermittent agigation, I've had issues with inconsistent development. There isn't a whole lot of extra capacity in there, and I believe that if your surface isn't perfectly level, the film might stick out of the developer. Also, I believe that agitation should only be clockwise rotation, because the film can back off the spool if you go the other way. You can have issues with both development and fixing in this case.

My best roll was a roll of 35mm that I developed recently with 300ml of fluid and continuous agitation. I think with that method, it's a really good tool.

In other words just stick to the instructions!

 

[focus_on_infinity]

In other words just stick to the instructions!

Not exactly. They don't specify anything about direction, and they don't recommend a preference between continuous and intermittant agitation. I'm suggesting that there just isn't enough excess volume for intermittant, so it's better to just forget it altogether.

 

[AgX]

Why would one need more volume for intermittant agitation than for continuous?
Rather the other way round: The lesser the agitation, the more the exchange of substances depends on diffusion. The more diffusion plays a role, the lesser the effect is of volume further away from the film.

 

[Auer]

Not exactly. They don't specify anything about direction, and they don't recommend a preference between continuous and intermittant agitation. I'm suggesting that there just isn't enough excess volume for intermittant, so it's better to just forget it altogether.

From the manual:

Continuous agitation - 300ml chemical
This is the recommended method to obtain the best results with regards
to homogeneity and contrast. Agitation must be continuous by
rotating the knob or crank over the entire process. A procedure as possibly
irregular and with alternated speed changes is recommended.
Moreover, in order to optimise the process further, one could horizontally
tilt the tank every 30 seconds to allow for a slight lateral agitation.
Continuous agitation is particularly important and recommended over
the developing phase.

 

[drmoss_ca]

Ich bin sicher sowas oder sowas ähnliches wird es auch bald für die LabBox geben.

There already is:

I showed it to Ars Imago and the CEO replied "This is a very interesting project. I appreciate your work a lot. We are working on a motorised version too probably coming end of the year. We have some prototypes ready now and we are testing."

 

[drmoss_ca]

From the manual:

Continuous agitation - 300ml chemical
This is the recommended method to obtain the best results with regards
to homogeneity and contrast. Agitation must be continuous by
rotating the knob or crank over the entire process. A procedure as possibly
irregular and with alternated speed changes is recommended.
Moreover, in order to optimise the process further, one could horizontally
tilt the tank every 30 seconds to allow for a slight lateral agitation.
Continuous agitation is particularly important and recommended over
the developing phase.

If you look in the open Lab-Box with 300ml of solution in it, you'll see it comes up very close to the top of the film reel. That, by the way, is a testament to the good seal they have around the axle as none of it leaks out! But a Rondinax 60 uses just 150ml of solution, with the fluid level being just below the axle. I can't see why you can't use 150ml the same way in a Lab-Box. I would try it out, save for the light leak issues I have with it in the 120 version.

 

[Auer]

If you look in the open Lab-Box with 300ml of solution in it, you'll see it comes up very close to the top of the film reel. That, by the way, is a testament to the good seal they have around the axle as none of it leaks out! But a Rondinax 60 uses just 150ml of solution, with the fluid level being just below the axle. I can't see why you can't use 150ml the same way in a Lab-Box. I would try it out, save for the light leak issues I have with it in the 120 version.

What would you hope to achieve by using 150ml instead of 300ml?
I dont care about the $$$ savings, but what else is there?
300ml is certainly a nice safe number form considering possible exhaustion with some developers...

 

[drmoss_ca]

What would you hope to achieve by using 150ml instead of 300ml?
I dont care about the $$$ savings, but what else is there?
300ml is certainly a nice safe number form considering possible exhaustion with some developers...

Pure OCD on my part! Mind you, using 300ml instead of 150ml is like walking into the camera shop and discovering all the developer prices have doubled. Bet you'd raise an eyebrow if that happened.

 

[Auer]

Pure OCD on my part! Mind you, using 300ml instead of 150ml is like walking into the camera shop and discovering all the developer prices have doubled. Bet you'd raise an eyebrow if that happened.

At this day and age I would not even blink.

 

[Auer]

Tried Catlabs X Film 80 in 120 today in the LB.
Felt it tighten up during paper removal and stopped, switched the film to a JOBO instead.

As expected, Catlabs had confirmed to me ahead of time it is PET.
I was just curious.