mystery incompatible films with Lab-Box

[drmoss_ca]

And whilst OCD is in the air, I took apart my 35u, sharpened the guillotine blade, and reassembled it. It still won't cut the PET film base.

 

[foc]

And whilst OCD is in the air, I took apart my 35u, sharpened the guillotine blade, and reassembled it. It still won't cut the PET film base.

When I ran a Fuji FP363 C41 film processing machine, a few years ago, even their powerful guillotines failed to cut PET film.
To avoid damage to the processor drive belts etc, we had to open the film cassette in a dark box, cut the end with scissors and then reload it into a dark cassette.
PET films were the bane of my life.

 

[Auer]

And whilst OCD is in the air, I took apart my 35u, sharpened the guillotine blade, and reassembled it. It still won't cut the PET film base.

While my LB manages to cut Foma 100 and 200, I have toyed with the idea of making a blade for it from a serrated knife blade.

 

[drmoss_ca]

I loaded bulk Rollei Retro 80 into cassettes yesterday. I tried a couple of inches in the Rondinax 35u - not a chance: the guillotine didn't even perforate the film at the pointy tips of the blade. The clip on the strap also refused to click indicating it had not driven its teeth through the film, but it did successfully hold on to the film and draw it onto the reel without letting go. Lid off in the dark and scissors to cut the film free of the cassette.
These polyester films would be good candidates for the Rondix, where the film isn't even cut at all until development and fixing is finished!

 

[AgX]

The Rondix was designed by Agfa seemingly as the cheap member of their family of daylight loading tanks. Does it actually work properly nonewithstanding its simple design?
I have not even come across a sample.

 

[Auer]

@drmoss_ca

Does the 60 handle PET?
The LB has issues getting the film in to the lower chamber during backing removal.
No doubt because of the PET being stiffer/firmer/whatever than the other options..

 

[drmoss_ca]

The Rondix was designed by Agfa seemingly as the cheap member of their family of daylight loading tanks. Does it actually work properly nonewithstanding its simple design?
I have not even come across a sample.

It works fine and is ridiculously simple. sit the film cassette in a compartment and attach the leader to the central axle. Put the lid on, pour in chemicals and turn the the handle. The film is drawn out of the cassette and wraps around the axle until it comes to a stop at the end of the film. Then turn the handle the other way and the film unwraps from the axle, and as you continue turning it then rewinds around the axle in the opposite direction. Just keep turning the handle one way till it stops, then turn the other way till it stops, and repeat till the time is up. Amazingly the film doesn't get scratched, and develops quite evenly. Here is a old trashed film showing how it winds onto the spool:

And how it unwraps with a change of rotational direction. Obviously in use the lid is on and the film is constrained as to how much it can open into loose coils:

The lid lets you pour out one solution and then pour in the next just like a Rondinax. It's a much smaller tank though:

@drmoss_ca
Does the 60 handle PET?
The LB has issues getting the film in to the lower chamber during backing removal.
No doubt because of the PET being stiffer/firmer/whatever than the other options..

I've not had any problem with the Rondinax 60 getting PET film separated into the holding chamber, and obviously no cutting has to be done with 120 film. I'm leary of using the LB with 120 film now it has allowed light into that chamber even with the rotating shutter turned as far anti-clockwise as it goes while clipping the strap on the end of the film.

 

[AgX]

Thank you. I knew that at the Rondix the film was meant to unwind into a loupe, but but not that it was meant to wind up in other direcrion. In both cases the processing principle is somewhere inbetween those of the 2-spools rewinding tanks and a spiral reel tank.

 

[Auer]

I've not had any problem with the Rondinax 60 getting PET film separated into the holding chamber, and obviously no cutting has to be done with 120 film. I'm leary of using the LB with 120 film now it has allowed light into that chamber even with the rotating shutter turned as far anti-clockwise as it goes while clipping the strap on the end of the film.

Sorry to hear that. I havent had that problem yet.
If you bought it from Cinestill, they have great customer service.
Or maybe contact Ars Imago?

https://help.cinestillfilm.com/hc/en-us
https://www.lab-box.it/support

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Ars-Imago has a list of PET films at https://www.lab-box.it/support

I've had 120 film wad up outside the film cylinder instead of curling inside the film cylinder as it should.

It's a miracle to me how it possibly get inside the film chamber!

 

[Auer]

It's a miracle to me how it possibly get inside the film chamber!

It works really well with non-PET films.

The "chamber" tube is easily removable for cleaning/inspection.

Some cameras (like my Pentax 645N) can cause the last frame to be very close to the end of the roll and possibly get some light exposure when attaching the clip in the LB
I correct for that when loading the film in the camera by not advancing to the recommended point, but rather stop a 1/4" or so before that.
This leaves a little bit more space at the end to be pulled out for the LB clip.

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I used the Lab-Box today for the first time in a long while. I had some issues with incomplete fixing under the reels, so I had to do that step again. Kind of a nuisance. Fixing is where I've most consistenly had issues with the Lab-Box. I periodically end up having to do it over again.

 

[Auer]

I used the Lab-Box today for the first time in a long while. I had some issues with incomplete fixing under the reels, so I had to do that step again. Kind of a nuisance. Fixing is where I've most consistenly had issues with the Lab-Box. I periodically end up having to do it over again.

Strange. I have some spots at the film edges (not in images) that dont develop due to being in contact with the reel but really not an issue at all.
Never had issues with fixing either,

Do you rotate continuosly?

 

[focus_on_infinity]

Strange. I have some spots at the film edges (not in images) that dont develop due to being in contact with the reel but really not an issue at all.
Never had issues with fixing either,

Do you rotate continuosly?

Yes.

Yeah, it's under the edges, not in the images. I didn't notice until it was already off the reel.

 

[Randy Stewart]

I had a lingering question as to whether the 35mm cutting knife could be dismounted from the unit. Dark Matter clears that up, above. One other problem with the knife is rusting. My thought has been to replace the original blade with one made from stainless steel. Looks like a "go". if I have that problem in the future. Of course, a simpler solution is to just not get it wet, but then again....

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I expected more from the lab-box ... I have problems with most of my (120) films. But it could be me ...

I expected more too. I think the system is flawed but admit that I find it incredibly difficult to design a system that would get film automatically onto a developing spool.

 

[AgX]

Look at the manual of the late Jobo daylight loading tank, from your perspective. It would be interesting to learn how well you would cope with it. Though I do not expect any advantages of that design in this respect.

 

[drmoss_ca]

I expected more too. I think the system is flawed but admit that I find it incredibly difficult to design a system that would get film automatically onto a developing spool.

And yet the Rondinax tanks from the 1930's onwards very, very rarely fail to do it right first time. It may be German manufacturing standards were better than those of modern day China.

Look at the manual of the late Jobo daylight loading tank, from your perspective. It would be interesting to learn how well you would cope with it. Though I do not expect any advantages of that design in this respect.

I have one and I hate it!

 

[macfred]

I have two healthy hands (even if there are people who claim they are two left ones ...) and bought the JOBO 2400 daylight developing tank second-hand a few years ago and sold it on after a few enervating attempts.
Working with it was very fiddly; moreover, despite thorough cleaning, the mechanics were extremely stiff.

 

[Auer]

The LB is really picky when it comes to what film works and what doesnt.

I've had no problems with anything from Kodak or Ilford in 120. None.
I've even done Kodak color films in it.

. It may be German manufacturing standards were better than those of modern day China.

You have a specific problem that you think is caused by lesser manufacturing standards?
I find it rather well made overall.

Would be great if we all had rondinaxes and whatnot, unfortunately there's a limited supply of functioning complete units available in retail.

 

[drmoss_ca]

You have a specific problem that you think is caused by lesser manufacturing standards?
I find it rather well made overall.

Would be great if we all had rondinaxes and whatnot, unfortunately there's a limited supply of functioning complete units available in retail.

I supported the Kickstarter right from the beginning, and bought all the accessories (spare reel and film guide to save changing from 35 to 120, both 120 and 35 units, the timer/thermometer lid, several knobs and cranks as I wanted to glue them to a cog wheel for automation). So, yes, I was a fan. I agree it seems well made, although the film reels are rough from the injection molding and I'm sure some loading problems happen as a result. Rondinax reels are silky smooth (especially the older black ones, which are even better than the later clear ones). While it would be nice if there were plentiful Rondinax units on the S/H market, I was hoping the Lab-Box would be the equivalent but younger and less prone to aging failures. I like the change to having two end units for format changes rather than having two separate tanks. But the film reels don't work so well, and the re-design of the 120 system doesn't work as well as the Rondinax 60: getting the paper into the tiny slot is awkward (no slot in the R-60), and it can't light seal a PET film (and is said not to let them curl up in the holding chamber), but PET films work OK in the R-60. The hinged grey gate that presses down on 120 films (replacing a sprung metal 'finger' on the underside of the R-60 lid) is necessitated by the fact the same lid must deal with the 35mm unit. I can live with that, no problem, even it if involves some extra steps.
I'm still a fan of the concept. I think it needs tweaking a bit to make it as good or better than the old tanks. Yes, I'd pay for it all over again for an improved model addressing these points.

 

[Auer]

I supported the Kickstarter right from the beginning, and bought all the accessories (spare reel and film guide to save changing from 35 to 120, both 120 and 35 units, the timer/thermometer lid, several knobs and cranks as I wanted to glue them to a cog wheel for automation). So, yes, I was a fan. I agree it seems well made, although the film reels are rough from the injection molding and I'm sure some loading problems happen as a result. Rondinax reels are silky smooth (especially the older black ones, which are even better than the later clear ones). While it would be nice if there were plentiful Rondinax units on the S/H market, I was hoping the Lab-Box would be the equivalent but younger and less prone to aging failures. I like the change to having two end units for format changes rather than having two separate tanks. But the film reels don't work so well, and the re-design of the 120 system doesn't work as well as the Rondinax 60: getting the paper into the tiny slot is awkward (no slot in the R-60), and it can't light seal a PET film (and is said not to let them curl up in the holding chamber), but PET films work OK in the R-60. The hinged grey gate that presses down on 120 films (replacing a sprung metal 'finger' on the underside of the R-60 lid) is necessitated by the fact the same lid must deal with the 35mm unit. I can live with that, no problem, even it if involves some extra steps.
I'm still a fan of the concept. I think it needs tweaking a bit to make it as good or better than the old tanks. Yes, I'd pay for it all over again for an improved model addressing these points.

Someone mentioned in a Jobo reel thread that they had rubbed led with a pencil on/inbetween ribs on the reel.
For the purposes of lubrication.
I did the same on my 120 LB reel, used a carpenters fat lead pencil.
Granted I had no issues besides PET films (stated as a no can do from Ars-Imago) so things went smooth as usual.
Basically just a preventive move on my part (knocks on plastic)