New Catalog numbers for Dektol and other Kodak Alaris chemistry

[Grim Tuesday]

As said above, from a change in the last figures at a product number one hardly can deduce on an end of production for good.

There is no room here for logic and intelligent thought, I'm here to overreact and panic!

 

[Kino]

Even thought they are no longer owned by Eastman Kodak, the Eastman Chemical Company COULD (total speculation) manufacture anything required and they ARE very financially stable.

Typical Photrio drift and panic: I simply said that it MIGHT be possible that Eastman Chemical COULD be making the chemistry (i.e., the reason for the catalog number change) and now it has morphed into a panicked discussion of developer manufacturing ENDING?

Get a grip people!

 

[mshchem]

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/contract-manufacturing
These guys are probably looking for work. Who knows what is really happening

Eastman Chemical is a major player in plastics. These guys wouldn't waste their time blending sodium sulfite and metol. Eastman Chemical is located in Kingsport Tennessee. They hit the jackpot with their polyester resins when the Bisphenol scare hit. Any impact resistant, food contact, crystal clear, bottle, food tray etc. is likely to have a Eastman polyester. Wet vacuums, vacuum cleaners. Kodak spun off the plastics division way back because it didn't have the profits of film. Ha. I worked closely with Eastman on plastics in refrigerators, we bought several million pounds a year. Purchasing had a cow when Eastman doubled the price.
These guys make Estar and Tenite.

 

[mshchem]

No need to panic. It's a done deal. No one is predicted any shortage. Several of the new cat. no. are currently shipping from B&H.

 

[Lachlan Young]

We're two pages in on a load of speculation and no one has thought to ask Alaris what the situation is?

Most likely explanation has to do with rising sales & issues with continuity of supply following Tetenal's troubles. They may be outstripping new Tetenal's capacity to fulfill demand within a reasonable time frame.

 

[AgX]

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/contract-manufacturing
These guys are probably looking for work. Who knows what is really happening

Every player in that industry (aside of Adox) is offering tollmanufacture.

 

[ludwighagelstein]

That´s quite interesting to hear. Back when I wrote my article about the Tetenal bankrupcy for PKI and shared it via Petapixel (https://petapixel.com/2019/02/01/a-closer-look-at-tetenal-a-photo-firm-thats-too-important-to-fail/) most Alaris chems and practically all Ilford chemistry were produced in Norderstedt, Germany, by Tetenal. Today, only a few months past, things start to look a little bit different from my understanding. I´ve heard that Kodak is working on something E6 kit related and I can confirm that Ilford has started to produce photochemistry in Japan, probably contracted something to Fuji. I can confirm that because I actually had one bottle of Ilford Silvermax paper developer and fixer (made in Japan) in my hands at Zingst Photofair earlier this summer. I suspect that the possibility of a Tetenal failure shook up the industry quite a bit, and as a result they came to the realization that a near 100% dependance of the whole supply chain to only one company simply is economic insanity. I wouldn´t jump to conclusions, however. We´ll see what happens next. Also, I´ve heard that fresh batches of HC-100 in the U.S. have no longer the "made in Germany" label printed on it, so no Tetenal chemistry in there any more. If you´re interested in the backstory a bit, I recommend reading my article I posted above.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Here's one with a picture: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...058452_professional_kodafix_1qt_solution.html

New bottle type, new dilution. Made in the USA.

I'm slightly concerned by the "NEW FORMULA" on the HC-110 bottle: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...1058692_professional_hc_110_1l_developer.html

Perhaps someone with a source inside Kodak can tell us what is new about it and if it actually matters.

 

[mshchem]

Oh my, Ilford too! I panic bought Bromophen when Ilford reorganized the first time. I checked my B&H account last time I bought Bromophen was in 2004, I bought at least 10 5L boxes. I'm down to a couple boxes, one of my better investments since it's 3 times the price today. I just ordered a couple new boxes. Bromophen wasn't available for several years while Ilford got things sorted out.
Where are the new Simplicity packs made? I love the idea of the packs for first timers, however the cost is nuts.
The new ownership at Ilford is doing a terrific job of promoting the brand.
I would hate to see Tetenal starve for lack of toll business, always was very impressed with the quality of Tetenal products.

 

[mshchem]

That´s quite interesting to hear. Back when I wrote my article about the Tetenal bankrupcy for PKI and shared it via Petapixel (https://petapixel.com/2019/02/01/a-closer-look-at-tetenal-a-photo-firm-thats-too-important-to-fail/) most Alaris chems and practically all Ilford chemistry were produced in Norderstedt, Germany, by Tetenal. Today, only a few months past, things start to look a little bit different from my understanding. I´ve heard that Kodak is working on something E6 kit related and I can confirm that Ilford has started to produce photochemistry in Japan, probably contracted something to Fuji. I can confirm that because I actually had one bottle of Ilford Silvermax paper developer and fixer (made in Japan) in my hands at Zingst Photofair earlier this summer. I suspect that the possibility of a Tetenal failure shook up the industry quite a bit, and as a result they came to the realization that a near 100% dependance of the whole supply chain to only one company simply is economic insanity. I wouldn´t jump to conclusions, however. We´ll see what happens next. Also, I´ve heard that fresh batches of HC-100 in the U.S. have no longer the "made in Germany" label printed on it, so no Tetenal chemistry in there any more. If you´re interested in the backstory a bit, I recommend reading my article I posted above.

Isn't Silvermax an Adox brand produced in Germany?

 

[MattKing]

Duplicating a post here...

Here is a link to an updated Chemical page on Kodak Alaris' website: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers-photo-printing/resources/chem-tech-info
You will note that this shows a link to a list of Catalog updates, plus links respecting individual products that are labelled "New Formula, same great results!". If you click on those links, you will get the 2017 version of the applicable datasheet.

 

[MattKing]

I note in the Catalogue update link that in most cases the change in Catalogue numbers is accompanied by a reduction in the minimum order quantities - which may improve availability.

 

[AgX]

Isn't Silvermax an Adox brand produced in Germany?

Yes it is. (Originally a Agfa brand.)

I can confirm that because I actually had one bottle of Ilford Silvermax paper developer and fixer (made in Japan) in my hands at Zingst Photofair earlier this summer.

At IlfordPhoto I do not find a respective product. (Yet. But the legal situation would make it a bad idea anyway.)

It seems to me that Ludwig just mixed up Adox with Ilford, though Adox seemingly did not attend the fair and furthermore wanted to take over production of chemical preperations themselves if economic.

 

[grainyvision]

Anyone have any thoughts to what the effects of the new Dektol formula is? I use Dektol for some "off-label" usages: C-41 reversal, RA-4 reversal, and as a high speed soft working film developer when heavily diluted. Concerned if the new formula will drastically change my results with these niche processes.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Anyone have any thoughts to what the effects of the new Dektol formula is? I use Dektol for some "off-label" usages: C-41 reversal, RA-4 reversal, and as a high speed soft working film developer when heavily diluted. Concerned if the new formula will drastically change my results with these niche processes.

There is no indication that any of the formulations have changed apart from the two that used diethanolamine adducts. Just the catalogue numbers seem to have changed. If you're really concerned, you can mix D-72 from scratch.

 

[MattKing]

Kodak Alaris has issued new MSDS sheets for what appears to be all of the darkroom chemicals they sell. So if you are curious....
I expect that if you use Dektol for "off-label" uses, you will need to re-test.

 

[ludwighagelstein]

Yes it is. (Originally a Agfa brand.)




At IlfordPhoto I do not find a respective product. (Yet. But the legal situation would make it a bad idea anyway.)

It seems to me that Ludwig just mixed up Adox with Ilford, though Adox seemingly did not attend the fair and furthermore wanted to take over production of chemical preperations themselves if economic.

No I didn´t mix it up. I´m fully aware that Silvermax is a film from Adox. Ilford don´t sell these paper developers here, and to get the whole thing more confusing, Ilford Imaging had it, not Ilford Photo. I´m fully aware of the market situation and could establish contact with Tetenal. They are producing and producing an producing and have a huge amount of backorders. They are well and investing and still supplying chemistry to god knows who. You won´t find anything about it though. That´s why I was so intrigued about it... AN Ilford paper developer / fixer made in Japan.

 

[AgX]

You confuse me even more...

-) How can that Ilford Imaging who in their own analog portfolio only had colour materials, had a b&w developer?
-) Why does that developer show up now after Ilford Imaging have gone under some years ago and how did it come to IlfordPhoto?
-) How could that be marketed now with Adox having control on this brand in major markets?
Maybe intended just for the Asian market? But then it would not have been presented in Zingst.

 

[ludwighagelstein]

You confuse me even more...

-) How can that Ilford Imaging who in their own analog portfolio only had colour materials, had a b&w developer?
-) Why does that developer show up now after Ilford Imaging have gone under some years ago and how did it come to IlfordPhoto?
-) How could that be marketed now with Adox having control on this brand in major markets?
Maybe intended just for the Asian market? But then it would not have been presented in Zingst.

Okay Agx, I confused something, too. Zingst is a while back now and my memory played a trick on me. It´s not Silvermax, it´s Silverchrome. The rest, I cant answer that, because it´s confusing to me as well. Have a look, here are the bottles:

I should note: They didn´t present it. They had it and gave it to us "under the counter" for our Camera Minutera Project. But it wasn´t Ilford Photo. It was the Inkjet/ Bonjet Ilford. I guess it´s some sort of a B2B product. Works really well though.

 

[AgX]

You mixed up manufacturers.

The one it is about is "Ilford Japan Co. Ltd." It is a japanese offspring of the companies who bought the brands of late swiss Ilford Imaging.

 

[ludwighagelstein]

Okay Agx, I confused something, too. Zingst is a while back now and my memory played a trick on me. It´s not Silvermax, it´s Silverchrome. The rest, I cant answer that, because it´s confusing to me as well. Have a look, here are the bottles:

You mixed up manufacturers.

The one it is about is "Ilford Japan Co. Ltd." It is a japanese offspring of the companies who bought the brands of late swiss Ilford Imaging.

I haven´t looked into it yet. I was just surprised that I got that developer from the Ilford booth at Zingst fair since they only had inkjet stuff. I have no idea why they had it and how they are connected in detail. Sorry to have caused the confusion.

 

[AgX]

As I said you mixed up manufacturers or more precise booths...

In the start you clearly referred to IlfordPhoto but now it is clear that you got the bottles from Ilford Imaging. Both have nothing to do which each other, except that Ilford Imaging licences the Ilford brand to IlfordPhoto.

But at least we now know there is a product in Japan we did not know of so far...
Though I doubt these bottle were filled by Fuji as you say, as Ilford Imaging/Ilford Japan has access to own manufacture.

 

[mshchem]

I'm glad I put away XTOL made by Tetenal. Both B&H and Freestyle show the old cat no. XTOL as discontinued, new material is coming soon!

I may have to go back to making my own D76 from scratch.

 

[Arklatexian]

I saw a couple days ago a post about HC-110 "2019 edition" in a new bottle and less viscous, and it appears to be made in the US and not EU as the old one. Anybody has seen that too? I will try to find that post.

I saw that also but I cannot find any of the sources that I buy from mentioning it so I will wait a while before possibly ordering any......Regards!

 

[mshchem]

I've looked around, USA online retailers are out of several Kodak Alaris black and white chemistry. It's either coming soon, on clearance, due August 30th etc. Like has been previously mentioned Ilford seems to be business as usual.
The Kodak drama usually is just a short term hiccup.