Newly acquired Durst AC800 Elite needs some work.

[zebra-k]

I have looked forever for a service manual with no luck. I have replaced my AC800 memory battery and can post photos with the procedure if you like. Pretty easy though just un solder the original and solder the negative and positive leads from a battery holder filled with batteries adding to the same voltage printed on original. The circuit board is marked + and - as well. I was told by another owner to use NICAD batteries or I'll F it up, so I followed the recommendation!



There is a plastic geared channel on the column which has a geared wheel that tracks the height. It's very accurate. I'll post a photo later.

Thanks Sruddy for information. Please post photos with procedure to replace battery, but if you can share the service manual then it will be even better.
Do you mind to share with me also the factory pre-settings from your machine? I will then compare them with those I have coded in mine.

 

[sruddy]

Thanks Sruddy for information. Please post photos with procedure to replace battery, but if you can share the service manual then it will be even better.
Do you mind to share with me also the factory pre-settings from your machine? I will then compare them with those I have coded in mine.

Sorry, I do not have the service manual. Here are two photos showing my repair. Do not put a rubber grommet like I did, as it puts the lead too close to the top cover, and it will pinch. I removed it once I discovered my error. The circuit boards are easy to remove however don’t try and take the connecting ribbons off. Remove them together as an assembly. Don’t forget to replace the cardboard separator when re installing them. Make sure the battery didn't leak and take out any components near it. You can see in my photo I had to replace the surrounding resistors. After your done turn your unit on and leave it on over night. Then proceeded with your programming. My enlarger still has factory settings which match the manual.

 

[zebra-k]

Sorry, I do not have the service manual. Here are two photos showing my repair. Do not put a rubber grommet like I did, as it puts the lead too close to the top cover, and it will pinch. I removed it once I discovered my error. The circuit boards are easy to remove however don’t try and take the connecting ribbons off. Remove them together as an assembly. Don’t forget to replace the cardboard separator when re installing them. Make sure the battery didn't leak and take out any components near it. You can see in my photo I had to replace the surrounding resistors. After your done turn your unit on and leave it on over night. Then proceeded with your programming. My enlarger still has factory settings which match the manual.

Thanks for the pictures and all the hints of battery replacement procedur. Please share with me your factory settings. Is the P an L parameters of the factory settings the same as mentioned in user manual? In my machine they were different.

 

[Wilf]

Update! A friend turned me a new set of rollers and they are installed. I have also did the alignment and auto focus programming. I located the author of the Black and White with Multigrade filter printing document. He has made a revision and wants my feed back. I'll post the document here after testing. Today I need to shoot a solid background and end up with an 18% gray negative to do the channel programming for each multi grade filter. I don't have a densitometer so i'm not sure how to determine the amount of gray.

 

[Wilf]

Hi,
did you have the time to test document information of the mentioned author and can you place the document here. The parameters for multigrad filter printing for Black an White would be so good to have.
Thanks

 

[zebra-k]

Hi,
did you have the time to test document information of the mentioned author and can you place the document here. The parameters for multigrad filter printing for Black an White would be so good to have.
Thanks

Hi,
I don't know which document do you have in mind, but regarding the Black and White printing there was a document made by David Thomas about using Durst AC800 for Black and White Printing available on www.candaprintingandframce.ca. The side seems to be off. I am attaching the doc I was able to download in the past. For multigrade filter printing you need to calibrate your AC800 to paper type and normal density negative you use. From my experience using parameters of different machines doesn't work and makes users frustrated.

 

[Wilf]

Hi,
I don't know which document do you have in mind, but regarding the Black and White printing there was a document made by David Thomas about using Durst AC800 for Black and White Printing available on www.candaprintingandframce.ca. The side seems to be off. I am attaching the doc I was able to download in the past. For multigrade filter printing you need to calibrate your AC800 to paper type and normal density negative you use. From my experience using parameters of different machines doesn't work and makes users frustrated.

Thank you very much Zebra-k,
for providing that document of David Thomas to this forum, especially as the former link does not work anymore.
You are absolutely right in saying that users get frustrated with parameters of other machines as well as with the parameters of the instruction manual.
Were you able to get your machine to work with color as you planned?

 

[sruddy]

Hi,
I don't know which document do you have in mind, but regarding the Black and White printing there was a document made by David Thomas about using Durst AC800 for Black and White Printing available on www.candaprintingandframce.ca. The side seems to be off. I am attaching the doc I was able to download in the past. For multigrade filter printing you need to calibrate your AC800 to paper type and normal density negative you use. From my experience using parameters of different machines doesn't work and makes users frustrated.

This is an older version. I have been working with David and have version 2.0, which is the latest. I'll post a link later today or tomorrow.

Download link for version 2.0 https://steveruddyphotography.com/i...te Printing with the Durst AC800AF latest.zip

 

[sruddy]

Thank you very much Zebra-k,
for providing that document of David Thomas to this forum, especially as the former link does not work anymore.
You are absolutely right in saying that users get frustrated with parameters of other machines as well as with the parameters of the instruction manual.
Were you able to get your machine to work with color as you planned?

See download link to newest version 2.0 above.

 

[zebra-k]

Thank you very much Zebra-k,
for providing that document of David Thomas to this forum, especially as the former link does not work anymore.
You are absolutely right in saying that users get frustrated with parameters of other machines as well as with the parameters of the instruction manual.
Were you able to get your machine to work with color as you planned?

Unfortunately, I didn't get any details about the pre-factory settings and how they impact the color. Also a repair manual is not available for me. I am sure the pre-factory settings in case of my Durst were changed. As the color correction is more complicated than B&W printing and requires spending more time and money to calibrate the machine, I decided print color materials digitally. If I have better view how the pre-factory settings may impact the calibration of color and what are / should be those parameters, than I may come back to the topic.

 

[zebra-k]

This is an older version. I have been working with David and have version 2.0, which is the latest. I'll post a link later today or tomorrow.

Download link for version 2.0 https://steveruddyphotography.com/images/Forum_mages/Black-and-White Printing with the Durst AC800AF latest.zip

Thanks Sruddy for the updated version of the doc. It's good to know the document is still alive

 

[Wilf]

This is an older version. I have been working with David and have version 2.0, which is the latest. I'll post a link later today or tomorrow.

Download link for version 2.0 https://steveruddyphotography.com/images/Forum_mages/Black-and-White Printing with the Durst AC800AF latest.zip

Hi Sruddy, Hi Zebra-K,
Yes, the new document is an improvement and I am grateful too that it was uncovered and updated.
However I am not convinced yet that the Durst AC 800 does not work with Multigrad with the inbuilt filters.
I have used the AC 650 for years and it is much less complicated compared to the AC 800 but uses the
same filtration method that the AC 800 has. Most people think that Multigrad would not work on the AC 650,
but it does.
I only got my own AC 800 Elite recently and time will come when I will try it out with Multigrad with the inbuilt filters.

By the way I do repair the AC 650 and AC 800 for the German community and I do have the schematics
and the service manual in English.
I got those from the US from a company that many years ago purchased a whole lot of left overs from Durst in Brixen
and I paid them 100 $. But for the community here I would share the documents free of charge.
Anyone interested just send send your mail contact and I can send the files.

 

[Wilf]

Unfortunately, I didn't get any details about the pre-factory settings and how they impact the color. Also a repair manual is not available for me. I am sure the pre-factory settings in case of my Durst were changed. As the color correction is more complicated than B&W printing and requires spending more time and money to calibrate the machine, I decided print color materials digitally. If I have better view how the pre-factory settings may impact the calibration of color and what are / should be those parameters, than I may come back to the topic.

Hi again,
The factory settings do not matter, they are not really needed. They were not settings that were put into a separate memory by Durst. The place of factory setting is the normal memory accessible by any user and was used by Dust for the initial setting of the paper that was common at the time of production in the 80 -90s. So anytime you make a change to any parameter you change those initially set factory parameters too.
You can use the settings though that are in the owners manual but only for preliminary use, until you know your own exact setting for your production paper.
Wilf

 

[zebra-k]

Hi again,
The factory settings do not matter, they are not really needed. They were not settings that were put into a separate memory by Durst. The place of factory setting is the normal memory accessible by any user and was used by Dust for the initial setting of the paper that was common at the time of production in the 80 -90s. So anytime you make a change to any parameter you change those initially set factory parameters too.
You can use the settings though that are in the owners manual but only for preliminary use, until you know your own exact setting for your production paper.
Wilf

Hi Wilf,
I'm afraid you are referring to different factory settings. Please check the user manual in section 5.5 Color and density under-correction page 21. Press and hold Mode select button when the enlarger is off and switch the enlarger on. Then you will be able to see those setting. From my point of view those values are different than those used for negative-paper calibration. In the manual you can find a note that these corrections affect all the memory channels. In such case there are independent on type of paper or negative you calibrated in the channels.

 

[Wilf]

Hi Wilf,
I'm afraid you are referring to different factory settings. Please check the user manual in section 5.5 Color and density under-correction page 21. Press and hold Mode select button when the enlarger is off and switch the enlarger on. Then you will be able to see those setting. From my point of view those values are different than those used for negative-paper calibration. In the manual you can find a note that these corrections affect all the memory channels. In such case there are independent on type of paper or negative you calibrated in the channels.

Hi Zebra-K,
yes, you are referring to factory settings of its own kind and there are several of those, but it is all one accessible memory.
Let me explain:
The one accessible memory system of the Durst AC, as also described in Section 5, ist made up of five parts.
1. „Cal“ as Basic part of the memory - this is calibrated according to the used paper emulsion
2. „XCP“ stands for time compensation according to paper size, or also called paper slope - basically it is for time compensation depending on the measurements of the enlargement size
3. „LN“ which stands for „Light Negative“ or underexposed negative or for overexposed slides
4. „DN“ which stands for „Dark Negativ„ or overexposed negative or underexposed slides
5. Color and density under-corrections (this is the part you refer to) and this is the memory part that is set according to the
the factory pre settings table on page 21.
All of these five parts of the memory can be changed according to the users need.

I have the original user manual in German and in Italian of the year 86 and the English manual of the year 96.
Within these 10 years Durst has not changed the machine, but has changed and added information to the manual and also integrated the parameters of the pre-factory settings as part 5 of the memory above. So now users could know and change the part of that memory too because different paper was available and changes to the factory settings had to be made possible.

These factory settings of part 5 memory are also called „integral measurement settings“ as they pertain to the whole of the system and they take priority over the settings that are used in the other parts of the memory.

Calling up this memory part 5 as I call it, let you set the parameters according to P and L which usually stands for production mode (P) and lens mode for (L).

Hope all this can be of some help.

 

[zebra-k]

These factory settings of part 5 memory are also called „integral measurement settings“ as they pertain to the whole of the system and they take priority over the settings that are used in the other parts of the memory.

Calling up this memory part 5 as I call it, let you set the parameters according to P and L which usually stands for production mode (P) and lens mode for (L).

Hi Wilf,
Thanks for clarification. It's clearer for me. Should the parameters in the P and L modes be the same? In case of the L mode, does it depends on a focal length? Are those values correlated with the mechanical settings of the YMC filters? Do you know if there is any method to check if those values are correct?

 

[Wilf]

Hi Wilf,
Thanks for clarification. It's clearer for me. Should the parameters in the P and L modes be the same? In case of the L mode, does it depends on a focal length? Are those values correlated with the mechanical settings of the YMC filters? Do you know if there is any method to check if those values are correct?

Yes, it is near enough to set P and L parameters the same initially. The lens mode is not explained anywhere and I believe it to be another sub-memory to make changes for different lenses.
The mechanical settings of the filters are to be set independantly, according to the manual and they are seperate from the part 5 memory and do not disturb those settings.Thus a direct correlatiion does not exist. However, if the physical settings of the levers in the colorhead are misaligned the settings in part 5 memory can not override the false settings.

 

[zebra-k]

That's a very clear answer. Thanks a lot!

 

[Johnkpap]

That also cleared up a few things for me too

Thanks

Johnkpap

 

[sacredcowpictures]

Hi Sruddy, Hi Zebra-K,
Yes, the new document is an improvement and I am grateful too that it was uncovered and updated.
However I am not convinced yet that the Durst AC 800 does not work with Multigrad with the inbuilt filters.
I have used the AC 650 for years and it is much less complicated compared to the AC 800 but uses the
same filtration method that the AC 800 has. Most people think that Multigrad would not work on the AC 650,
but it does.
I only got my own AC 800 Elite recently and time will come when I will try it out with Multigrad with the inbuilt filters.

By the way I do repair the AC 650 and AC 800 for the German community and I do have the schematics
and the service manual in English.
I got those from the US from a company that many years ago purchased a whole lot of left overs from Durst in Brixen
and I paid them 100 $. But for the community here I would share the documents free of charge.
Anyone interested just send send your mail contact and I can send the files.

Hi, Zebra-K
This is the best news.. Can you please e mail me the service manual for the AC800 please? I bought an old AC800 Elite,
and need to do some repairs on the column mechanism and replace the battery before using it. Having the service manual
is so important.. My e mail address is sacredcowpictures@yahoo.com

Thanks!

Andrew Majewski

 

[John Francis]

Hi All

Have just joined the forum because I need info on the AC800 elite. I have two of them and I'm pretty sure that the instruction manuals are the early ones:
I'd be grateful if someone can email me the latest user manual and service manual.
Also I'm assuming that the batteries for the memory need replacing, is this easy to do?
Finally my user manual mentions 100mm lens how critical is this? I ask because I have 100mm and 105mm lenses will the a/F work with 105's

Thanks in advance
John

 

[gordrob]

i think that this is a copy of the latest manual for the Durst AC 800AF.
https://docplayer.net/32365953-Ac-800-af-user-s-manual.html

 

[adamlugi]

Hi,

Maybe someone knows why I can't set cyan to 0 in pre-filter (manual 6.5.2) - it goes down to 8 max?

Regards
Adam

 

[Johnkpap]

Hi John and Adam
Welcome to the world of the Durst AC800.....if you both send me a a Email address that can handle 20 meg i can sen you all my saved manuals ect including the Service manual

With regards to the memory battery:- I and a few others have replaced it with 3 x AA nicads soldered togeather in a pack, the replacements must be NICADS or they will damage the charging cct. Remember this is old 1980's technology that is why it is fixable

AS You need to un-solder the old by now corroded pack, if you are not skilled in electronic repair find some one who is to do the work for you !!!! I will include the photos of how to do it
when I email you the manuals.

John Frances:- as you are also in Australia, I can Make you up a replacement Batt's at cost and send them to you, if you can't sort them your self

With regards to lenses you need to dedicate 3 of them for that enlarger:- lens 1 50mm lens 2 80mm (75mm will also work) and lens 3 105mm or 100mm and only use these lenses with this enlarger. you will need to change the light box for each format if you have them, if you are printing multigrade buy a set of new filters and also dedicate them to that enlarger

Regards

Johnkpap

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Try Digikey for battery packs: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/category/battery-products/6

If you can't find a standard product that will fit they also make customs, I have a few old laptops I have kept going through the years this way. https://forum.digikey.com/t/custom-battery-packs/708

Digikey spot welds the batteries together rather that soldering them. Soldering together a battery pack is tough, it's not what the batteries were designed for.

Although they say you shouldn't do it (I think it is the same "They" that say you can't go swimming after you have eaten) NiMH batteries can be used instead of NiCad in most circuits, giving a much longer life, higher capacity and fewer disposal worries. NiCads are sub-optimal in light drain applications.