Nikon Coolscan 4000 - Vuescan/Silverfast Vs Nikon Scan 4.X

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Radost

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Have you ever compared results with Negative Lab Pro?


What do you mean by "photoshoppy?"


What version of Silverfast? What settings?

(Do you also have settings for slides?)


The "add-on" to the base Silverfast product?


As far as I am aware, their user forum hasn't worked for years. Are you able to use it? If not the user forum, how do you communicate with them?




As you might infer, I tried to use Silverfast but got very frustrated after a while. This software is not cheap. I would be very happy to be able to use it, instead of having to purchase VueScan. Nikon's scanning software is not an option for me. If it matters, I have a Nikon 5000 scanner.
Lightroom and negative lab is too slow for me. Also don’t want to pay for lightroom. That’s like 5 films a month.
By photoshoppay i mean DSLR scans and Negative Lab pro.
TO be honest I tried the beta only.
SIlverfast raw scanning bakes the look in 99% of the time i just need few clicks adjustment by picture in the HDR editing software.

FOr slides “which I don’t shoot anymore because of the cost of chemicals” silver fast is amazing. I have the calibration fuji slides and Silver Fast DUal Exposure arguably gives amazing dinamic range…For slides.

I file a help support ticket from the software directly. Get a respone the next business day or a little later because it is in germany.
 

Radost

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For the record I am not a photographer proffesional. I grew up in a poor country and took pictures and developed myself.
 

PhilBurton

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For the record I am not a photographer proffesional. I grew up in a poor country and took pictures and developed myself.

I live in the USA, but I have always developed my own B&W. I tried color slides once but I was not able to do temperature control well enough.
 

warden

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Whilst Vuescan is working well for me (scanning as RAW DNG, inverting with NLP in Adobe LR), the ICE leaves a lot to be desired, so I'm very interested to see how Nikon Scan performs in my hands.

I'll report back in a few months :smile:
Please do report back, if possible with examples. Here's a portion of a damaged 35mm Ektar negative (less than 1/3 of the negative) from maybe 15 years ago. (Nikon Coolscan IV ED) I see some softening of the image from Vuescan's "infrared cleaning" which I have not corrected with sharpening. If I had Nikonscan I'd do a direct comparison but I can't to that. Soon you will be able to do the comparison though so please do share.

It's best to never need or use ICE of course and thankfully I've not needed it for more than a handful of negatives in the last 20 years but still it's interesting to learn about it.
beach.jpg
beach3.jpg
 
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Twotone

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Please do report back, if possible with examples. Here's a portion of a damaged 35mm Ektar negative (less than 1/3 of the negative) from maybe 15 years ago. (Nikon Coolscan IV ED) I see some softening of the image from Vuescan's "infrared cleaning" which I have not corrected with sharpening. If I had Nikonscan I'd do a direct comparison but I can't to that. Soon you will be able to do the comparison though so please do share.

It's best to never need or use ICE of course and thankfully I've not needed it for more than a handful of negatives in the last 20 years but still it's interesting to learn about it.
View attachment 366254 View attachment 366257

Absolutely, I'll report back with some comparisons!

I've had a few instances recently of scratched negatives which are annoying to say the least, I'm still trying to identify the cause (bulk loader vs camera) but either way I'd like the option of using a low level ICE to alleviate some of the smaller blemishes etc. I of course use the spot tool on Adobe LR however it's time consuming and I'm not always satisfied with the 'fix'.

Funnily enough I've been given the thumbs up that the repairer is ready for my scanner, so it's being sent off on Friday for a full service and to look into this issue.
I've very excited to have it working properly, hopefully in just a few weeks I'll be able to share some comparisons.

Thanks
 
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Twotone

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Right folks,

I've finally sorted Nikon Scan!
The scanner was given the full works during it's service including a preventative firewire chip replacement. It was also given a firmware update to 1.10 which is supposedly focused around Mac specifically.

Long story short, the repairer who did the work had absolutely no issues with the scanner running on Nikon Scan (on their Windows Computer) and using their SA-21 film adapter. I got it back and it was still not playing ball on the Snow Leopard 10.6.8 install I had. It turns out that Nikon Scan will run on 10.6.8 however with firewire models e.g. Coolscan 4000, electronic adapters e.g. SA-21 will not work correctly on this OS X.

Fast forward a few weeks, I bought a 2007 Mac Mini 2,1 with a 2.16Ghz CPU (upgraded), 4GB Ram & a 500GB HDD. It barely arrived in once piece and I had to dismantle it, pull out some broken piece of plastic and reconnect the DVD drive. I pulled the HDD, fitted a SSD, installed Mac OS X Tiger (10.4.11) which was the last officially supported OS by Nikon Scan, and it still wouldn't work correctly with the SA-21 adapter.

Before giving up the will, I decided to install Windows XP via Boot Camp (Beta 1.4) and low and behold - Nikon Scan is now working on Windows XP! :smile:

I've done a few test scans to try and nail down a workflow a bit, and so far so good!
I'm going to spend some more time having a play with it over the coming few days as I've been scanning as a positive .NEF file and inverting with NLP in Adobe LR, however I intend to play with the options including scanning as a negative (the few negative examples I scanned were very flat). I also intend to do some comparisons, especially with some that are badly scratched etc.

If anyone is using Nikon Scan and inverting with NLP, I'd be very interested to hear your workflow!

Thanks!
 
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PhilBurton

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Sure thing - It's worth noting I'm in the UK.

I used Graeme Hardie of Lincoln Scan who is a lovely chap and excellent at what he does, a true engineer and really understands these.

If you're in the US, Gleb Shtengel:

Cheers!
Gleb's website has very helpful posts on different repairs for Nikon scanners and adapters.

Also Frank Phillips for US service and repairs.
 
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Just to be sure, only Coolscan 8000 & 9000 use Firewire as all the other models use USB. Myself, I keep a Windows Vista PC just for scanning.
This is only partially correct.

The only USB scanner NIkon made was the V/5000.

In addition to the 8000 and 9000, the IV/4000 use Firewire. The older Coolscan III(great unit, if lower resolution and a bit limited in features compared to the newer ones) runs on SCSI, as does the original Coolscan. The III uses a High Density Centronics 50 port, and the original uses the standard 50 pin Centronics(looks like the printer end of an old parallel printer cable, but bigger). The original Coolscan actually was available in a model that would mount in a 5 1/4" drive bay and could be run off the internal SCSI bus in a 1990s Mac-I've tried to find one(I have the stand-alone one) just for sheer curiosity but have yet to see one. I think NikonScan 3.x was the last to support the SCSI scanners, and between that and just finding a compatible SCSI card you're limited to nothing newer than a G4 to run them on a Mac since it's an OS 9 only program.

I run my Coolscan 4000, 8000, and V(I keep the 4000 around for the full strip feeder...) from a Mac Pro 4,1 running 10.6.8. It's a shame the V is the only one that was USB-I've actually run it from my 2019 iMac in a 10.6.8 Server virtual machine. Unfortunately, Firewire can't be passed through to a VM, so there's no way to run them using NikonScan on a Mac.
 

Kodachromeguy

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Before giving up the will, I decided to install Windows XP via Boot Camp (Beta 1.4) and low and behold - Nikon Scan is now working on Windows XP!

Did you already have a copy of WIN XP? If no, how did you find/buy/download a copy with the correct key? Thanks!
 

radialMelt

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Did you already have a copy of WIN XP? If no, how did you find/buy/download a copy with the correct key? Thanks!

While not an answer to your question, if it helps at all, it is possible to install Nikonscan on Win10 as well. That is how I use it.
 

blee1996

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Nikon Scan works on Windows 10 and 11, since I'm doing this for quite many years now. There might be this little trick of installing Vuescan to get the latest driver, which is not a problem since I already have Vuescan life time license.
 

reddesert

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This is only partially correct.

The only USB scanner NIkon made was the V/5000.

In addition to the 8000 and 9000, the IV/4000 use Firewire. The older Coolscan III(great unit, if lower resolution and a bit limited in features compared to the newer ones) runs on SCSI, as does the original Coolscan.

The Nikon Coolscan IV (LS-40) is certainly USB. It might be USB v1.1, not USB2. I think the LS-4000 may have came out later with Firewire because Firewire was faster at the time. I dunno about Nikon Scan, but I think one can use a Coolscan IV with a present day Mac with Vuescan.

Adaptec SCSI cards are a good bet for the Coolscan III (LS-30). I bought an LS-30 when it was new and it came with an Adaptec PCI internal SCSI card, and I was also able to use it with a laptop with an Adaptec PCMCIA SCSI card.
 
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The Nikon Coolscan IV (LS-40) is certainly USB. It might be USB v1.1, not USB2. I think the LS-4000 may have came out later with Firewire because Firewire was faster at the time. I dunno about Nikon Scan, but I think one can use a Coolscan IV with a present day Mac with Vuescan.

Adaptec SCSI cards are a good bet for the Coolscan III (LS-30). I bought an LS-30 when it was new and it came with an Adaptec PCI internal SCSI card, and I was also able to use it with a laptop with an Adaptec PCMCIA SCSI card.

Sorry, guess I'd never handled that one. I own a 4000 and it certainly is Firewire-in fact mine is down now due to a bad Firewire chip. Scanning over USB 1.1 must be painful.

For Mac use, especially with a Coolscan III, it's hard to beat an Adaptec 2930CU as long as you're using in a G4 or earlier and OS X 10.4.11 or earlier(or OS 8/9). Apple shipped this card in the G3 and G4 tower era as a build to order option, and the CU version has Mac firmware so is a bootable card(if you care about that, although presumably you're not booting off your scanner). I like this because it's plentiful and "just works" natively. It has an internal 50 pin connector and external HD50 Centronics, so you can connect it to the LS-30/III using a cable with this style connector on both ends(potentially easier to find than an "adapter" cable with different ends).

The only issue with that particular card is that Apple dropped support for it in 10.5.8, along with most other Adaptec cards. I had a friend who is a real whiz at this sort of stuff offer to try to get the 2930CU working by transplanting the kexts from 10.4.11, but he was never successful(and he's had good luck getting other deprecated support working in 10.5.8 by doing this). 10.5.8 supports a lot more ATTO cards than Adaptec, but they are a lot less easy to find now and tend to be pricier. I've also not had great luck finding a card that's compatible with PCI G5s and supported in OS X, much less a PCIe card for G5s or Mac Pros(that would make my day).
 

reddesert

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Sorry, guess I'd never handled that one. I own a 4000 and it certainly is Firewire-in fact mine is down now due to a bad Firewire chip. Scanning over USB 1.1 must be painful.

For Mac use, especially with a Coolscan III, it's hard to beat an Adaptec 2930CU as long as you're using in a G4 or earlier and OS X 10.4.11 or earlier(or OS 8/9). Apple shipped this card in the G3 and G4 tower era as a build to order option, and the CU version has Mac firmware so is a bootable card(if you care about that, although presumably you're not booting off your scanner). I like this because it's plentiful and "just works" natively. It has an internal 50 pin connector and external HD50 Centronics, so you can connect it to the LS-30/III using a cable with this style connector on both ends(potentially easier to find than an "adapter" cable with different ends).

The only issue with that particular card is that Apple dropped support for it in 10.5.8, along with most other Adaptec cards. I had a friend who is a real whiz at this sort of stuff offer to try to get the 2930CU working by transplanting the kexts from 10.4.11, but he was never successful(and he's had good luck getting other deprecated support working in 10.5.8 by doing this). 10.5.8 supports a lot more ATTO cards than Adaptec, but they are a lot less easy to find now and tend to be pricier. I've also not had great luck finding a card that's compatible with PCI G5s and supported in OS X, much less a PCIe card for G5s or Mac Pros(that would make my day).

I looked in the LS-40/LS-4000 manual and the LS-40 is USB 1.1. However, the rated scan times for the LS-40 are only a little slower than the LS-4000 over Firewire, per the manual. Using ICE slows down the rated time by more than 2x for either scanner. I don't know which part of the system is the limiting step. I have a LS-40 but it is packed up at the moment - my memory is that it wasn't obviously slower than using the LS-30 over SCSI.

Although off topic for this thread, several versions of the Minolta Dimage Scan Dual used USB 2.
 
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I looked in the LS-40/LS-4000 manual and the LS-40 is USB 1.1. However, the rated scan times for the LS-40 are only a little slower than the LS-4000 over Firewire, per the manual. Using ICE slows down the rated time by more than 2x for either scanner. I don't know which part of the system is the limiting step. I have a LS-40 but it is packed up at the moment - my memory is that it wasn't obviously slower than using the LS-30 over SCSI.

Although off topic for this thread, several versions of the Minolta Dimage Scan Dual used USB 2.

I was talking this over with a friend earlier today in general terms.

I don't know exactly what the mechanism of data transfer is for scanners, but truth be told even at 4000ppi the acquisition time is short enough that you probably don't need super fast transfers. On paper USB 2.0 is faster than FW400(480mbit/s vs 400mbit for FW400) but in practice FW often gets higher sustained speeds.

50 pin SCSI can manage 40mbit/s in theory(although IIRC in practice it's really sensitive to things like cable length. Some claim termination isn't necessary in LVDS implementations, which IIRC the Coolscan III is, but I've also seen slow downs on internal hard drives without terminating properly). USB 1.1 is 12mbit/s. For some perverse reason, or actually I have my theories as to why, Apple made USB booting relatively easy in a lot of USB 1.1 systems, but made the process more complicated and less intuitive when they started shipping USB 2.0. I once booted a Titanium Powerbook to 10.5.8 by a USB external HDD-it took 15 minutes to reach a useble desktop, where the same computer will get there within a minute on the internal ATA/100 bus.

All of that aside, what I'm really saying is that I don't know how much of a difference the bus speed makes in practice for a scanner.

Some of the fastest film scanners I've personally used have been SCSI, but they are also some of the oldest. It's been probably 5 years since I used my Coolscan III(I'm only just starting to get some of this stuff out of storage after relocating two states away in 2020) but I seem to recall it actually being pretty zippy. With that said, as best as I remember, its max resolution is 3200dpi. I suspect if you turned a IV/V/4000/5000 down this low, they'd probably be as fast if not faster, but again I've not tried it. I have a Polaroid Sprintscan 35 in storage somewhere and I remember it being really fast, but it's something like 2400dpi if even that fast.

I do have my original Coolscan here, and I'm curious to try it, but between the resolution, the lack of ICE, and that it only takes mounted slides I'm not in a big hurry to use it. Maybe I'll try the next time I have one of my PM G4s out. The only other SCSI scanner i have ready access to is a Leafscan 35, which I'd love to use but I've never been able to sucessfully get it to complete calibration. To be honest, if I ever were to get that going, I'd probably forget going the old Mac route just for convenience. I already have an National Instruments GPIB USB adapter on my 2019 iMac that's my main desktop-it interfaces to a couple of HP Multimeters and I do data logging from those in a Windows VM. It SHOULD be easy to add the Leafscan to the GPIB bus and run it that way, but kind of no point too unless it's actually working. GPIB is slow compared to SCSI, but also somewhat more robust(IME-I still run some GPIB at work, or rather HPIB since it's all HP stuff and I'm using HP interface cards and software, and it honestly just works).

The next time I set my scanners up, though(I don't have a permanent home for them-it's mostly just claiming the dining room table, and usually when my wife's at work :smile: ) I'm going to try something. I typically use one of the old Bondi Blue Apple USB keyboards, the type that shipped with the first iMac G3, with the Mac Pro. All but the very last Apple hardwired keyboards had USB 1.1 hubs. Of course that's zero issue if you're plugging a mouse into them, which is the main reason why the boards have USB hubs. Still, though, even a USB 3.0 peripheral plugged into one will run at 1.1 speeds. If my Coolscan V is measurably slower running through the keyboard hub compared to directly into a 2.0 port on the computer, we'll know the interface makes a difference.

I'm not sure anything can be as slow as the first flatbed I remember my dad buying in the mid to late 90s, which ran off a printer port. He had a ZIP drive that connected that way too. Those were painful...
 

reddesert

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I was talking this over with a friend earlier today in general terms.

I don't know exactly what the mechanism of data transfer is for scanners, but truth be told even at 4000ppi the acquisition time is short enough that you probably don't need super fast transfers. On paper USB 2.0 is faster than FW400(480mbit/s vs 400mbit for FW400) but in practice FW often gets higher sustained speeds.

50 pin SCSI can manage 40mbit/s in theory(although IIRC in practice it's really sensitive to things like cable length. Some claim termination isn't necessary in LVDS implementations, which IIRC the Coolscan III is, but I've also seen slow downs on internal hard drives without terminating properly). USB 1.1 is 12mbit/s. For some perverse reason, or actually I have my theories as to why, Apple made USB booting relatively easy in a lot of USB 1.1 systems, but made the process more complicated and less intuitive when they started shipping USB 2.0. I once booted a Titanium Powerbook to 10.5.8 by a USB external HDD-it took 15 minutes to reach a useble desktop, where the same computer will get there within a minute on the internal ATA/100 bus.

All of that aside, what I'm really saying is that I don't know how much of a difference the bus speed makes in practice for a scanner.

Just a minor note as I'm traveling, the Coolscan III/LS-30 has an internal terminator. I recall looking at this within the past couple of years because I got a LS-20 for near nothing, just for fun, and that has a Centronics connector and no terminator, so I had to review my stash of SCSI cards and cables. I don't have any of them hooked up right now. If I wanted to run any of the SCSI scanners now, my first line of attack would likely be a Linux laptop with the PCMCIA SCSI card and Vuescan, but I would have to check what versions of linux still support SCSI.

The Coolscan III does have ICE and the SA-20 strip film adapter is probably not too hard to find now. The earlier ones like the LS-20 only took mounted slides, but I think you can put the filmstrip holder like FH-2 into them. There was someone selling 3D printed versions of the filmstrip holders on ebay a while ago.
 
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Twotone

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Did you already have a copy of WIN XP? If no, how did you find/buy/download a copy with the correct key? Thanks!

Apologies - I've not had internet access for the past week due to holidaying :smile:
I did not, but they are readily available online and cheap. Additionally, the licence keys are reusable several times if you have a friend with an old dead XP computer (assuming it's the same XP version e.g. professional SP2).
Send me a PM if you want to talk it through!
 

Jeremy Greenaway

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Have been reading this thread with interest - glad I never went the Mac way, although the newspaper and magazine publishers I worked with were until recently Maccers.
Domestically, I've used Windows since Day One, and with various flatbed scanners, plus the invincible Nikon Coolscans. First was a III and I'm now running a pair of V's with Windows 11 on my desktop with 64gb of memory.
I've used Vuescan for several years with no issues and also SilverFast, which I prefer, although it's a more omplicated tool.
Still have EpsonScan installed, although my flatbed A4 is a Canon - excellent machine. I also have an A3, which is a bit of an oddity with its software, using oldfashioned Windows generic driver with only limited functionality. However, it's useful if I have to scan, say, a broadsheet paper's centre spread.
The point of this is to say I don't know why Windows is so demeaned. No love particularly of Microsoft, and Win 11 is a frustratingly buggy and clunky version. 10 was a much more reliable and stable platform. But with some fiddling and fettling, I can run pretty much all of my apps - even some dating back to win 97! With compatibility settings, even CoolScan runs.
As far as laptops and notebooks, generally these (in my experience) don't have enough expansion capability. 32gb of chips seems to be the optimal for scanning and post-scan work.
These are my general ramblings and are offered only as observations on some 30-plus years of analogue>digital image conversion.
 

PhilBurton

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@Jeremy Greenaway

Speaking as a PC user overall, I concur. I'm still running Win on all the systems in my house. I will probably upgrade to Win 12 directly. I did a trial install of Win 11 and all I experienced was unnecessary changes in the UI.

As for laptops,they are built for the "sweet spot" in the market, which is not what workstation users, e.g. photographers, designers, etc, are, for the most part. That's why I have a powerful desktop, self-built. I use my laptop for lighter work. For that purpose, 16 GB is enough, even with Win 10 Pro.

I will probably not upgrade my laptop until ARM-based systems become popular, with good support for Office 365 and Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom and my important utilities run well even in emulation mode.Bottom I'm guessing that is sometime in 2026 or maybe even 2027.

For my desktop, I will stay with AMD Ryzen processors for at least one motherboard upgrade cycle.
 
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Twotone

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Have been reading this thread with interest - glad I never went the Mac way, although the newspaper and magazine publishers I worked with were until recently Maccers.
Domestically, I've used Windows since Day One, and with various flatbed scanners, plus the invincible Nikon Coolscans. First was a III and I'm now running a pair of V's with Windows 11 on my desktop with 64gb of memory.
I've used Vuescan for several years with no issues and also SilverFast, which I prefer, although it's a more omplicated tool.
Still have EpsonScan installed, although my flatbed A4 is a Canon - excellent machine. I also have an A3, which is a bit of an oddity with its software, using oldfashioned Windows generic driver with only limited functionality. However, it's useful if I have to scan, say, a broadsheet paper's centre spread.
The point of this is to say I don't know why Windows is so demeaned. No love particularly of Microsoft, and Win 11 is a frustratingly buggy and clunky version. 10 was a much more reliable and stable platform. But with some fiddling and fettling, I can run pretty much all of my apps - even some dating back to win 97! With compatibility settings, even CoolScan runs.
As far as laptops and notebooks, generally these (in my experience) don't have enough expansion capability. 32gb of chips seems to be the optimal for scanning and post-scan work.
These are my general ramblings and are offered only as observations on some 30-plus years of analogue>digital image conversion.

I wouldn't have said windows is demeaned, and in the case of my CS4000, it's firewire rather than USB which I believe yours has and and which is much easier than firewire. Firewire was inbuilt in pretty all Macs since the dawn of time up until the 2010s, and as a Mac user (for personal, windows for work) it made sense to stick with it and try and get it to run on my main machine, and if not a secondary machine just for this.

I'm sure I could have gotten around it easier than I have with a windows laptop from mid-2000s that had firewire built in, however I do like myself a little project! The windows laptop was next on the list, should my install of XP on the old Mac Mini not worked, but alas it does and I have a nicely networked mac mini which runs Windows XP as it's primary OS, with Nikon Scan running well without issue.

The other route I could have gone was a newer windows machine (tower rather than laptop) and installed a firewire card etc, however I feel like this may have become more of a headache and also taken up a large amount of space under my already cramped desk!

Vuescan works fine for me, however the ICE isn't good enough so Nikon Scan seems to be the only software capable of taming scratches etc.

Thanks for your insights :smile:
 
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