Nothing comes even close to Kodachrome / Ilfochrome

[lucadonini]

I am reaching out to the community for advice on Colour Film and Paper.

Kodachrome and Ilfochrome are no longer commercially available.
I was satisfied with Fujichrome Velvia 50 / 100 so far.

The big challenge turns out to be to find a replacement for Ilfochrome paper. Has anyone come across a solution for this issue?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to Photrio!

What about Ektachrome?

 

[Paul Howell]

As far as I know only Fuji is coating color paper, maybe someone in China is, but you are limited to Fuji. No none makes a positive to positive paper, only choice is make an inter negative for a negative and print with Fuji. Here in the US the other than Fuji brands which I think is still Fuji, although there might still be some old stock Kodak floating around.

 

[loccdor]

Welcome to Photrio, did you take a break from film photography and are returning? I think it's been about ten years since the last Kodachrome development, I never tried it, looked at many of the images though and they are fantastic.

Expired Fuji Sensia 100 is my favored slide film, it holds up well in expiration.

 

[pentaxuser]

Isn't it the case that there is nothing nor has there been for a number of years of any kind of replacement paper for slides and this will not change?

I had thought that was what lucadonini was asking?

pentaxuser

 

[AnselMortensen]

Cibachrome/ Ilfochrome Classic is gone.
Kodak Type R is gone.

 

[koraks]

The big challenge turns out to be to find a replacement for Ilfochrome paper. Has anyone come across a solution for this issue?

Welcome aboard!
There is no replacement for Ilfochrome/Cibachrome.

The only real options you have are:
1: digital print, either inkjet or chromogenic onto regular RA4 paper
2: in the analog domain, working out a pos-pos workflow using RA4 paper as the final output, so either reversal process the paper directly, or use an internegative stage. The former is relatively feasible, but results will never come close to proper Ilfochrome. The latter is much more challenging, but has the potential for coming somewhat close to Cibachrome, especially if you use something like FujiFlex instead of regular RA4 RC paper.

Realistically, digital print is the way to go at this point, which implies that digital capture is also more of an obvious choice.

 

[Paul Howell]

What inkjet paper (if any) is close to the look of Cibrachrome?

 

[cliveh]

In my opinion, Kodachrome was the best colour film ever.

 

[Paul Howell]

That I agree with, Kodachrome 25 was so very good.

 

[Sanug]

The high contrast of Kodachrome was not easy to handle with Cibachrome printing. Anyway, both are gone.

Today I scan my Kodachrome slides and send the file to a professional laser printer. The results are okay, but the resolution of these digital prints on RA4 RC paper is inferior compared to Cibachrome or older analogue prints.

However, at the wall the digital prints look good enough, they are pretty cheap, and I don't need to give the original slides out of my home.

And yes, I miss Kodachrome! The colours and the resolution are outstanding!

Goa, India, 1990.
Rollei 35 LED.
Kodachrome 25.
Canon Powershot s110 from light table

Portugal 1987.
Rollei 35 LED
Kodachrome 64
Plustek Opticfilm 7300

 

[Paul Howell]

We the Phoenix Art Museum hosted an AA retrospective there was a few color prints, one print that is rather well known in black and white of a rock in Monument Valley was printed in both Cibachrome and Dye Transfer, the original was a 4X5 Kodachrome from the 40s. The signage stated that AA liked the dye transfer better than the Cibachrome, I liked the Cibachrome as it had for lack of a better term, more pop.

 

[mshchem]

I get amazing inkjet (Canon) prints from a cheap printer. Original Kodachrome ASA 10 of my father's and modern Fujichrome and current Ektachrome. I was a Cibachrome/Ilfochrome printer in my day. I see 4 Cibachrome prints I made, hanging, from where I'm lounging right now. Beautiful

 

[koraks]

What inkjet paper (if any) is close to the look of Cibrachrome?

You'd have to shop around and sample a bit; one of the boons of inkjet is its vast flexibility. There are plenty of RC options around; some of the higher-end ones will be more subtly textured than the cheap papers at the low end. In terms of color rendition, it's a matter of using a printer with a decent gamut (some flavor of CMYK + OGV) and profiling for the aesthetic that pleases you.

Cherish the cibachromes and dye transfers we still have from the past, but for new work, it makes the most sense to harness the technology available to us today.

 

[George Mann]

In my opinion, Kodachrome was the best colour film ever.

Which is why we need to pressure them to bring it back!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

George, pressure them all you want but it'll NEVER happen. There's more of a chance of introducing a print film that mimics Kodachrome, perhaps...

 

[MattKing]

Which is why we need to pressure them to bring it back!

You will need to bring back Super 8 Kodachrome home movies in huge volumes if want to be successful with still film Kodachrome.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Kodachrome wasn't universally the first choice for printing to Ilfochrome. For a vast majority of photographers, certainly those here in Australia, Velvia and Provia and every format you can think of, led the way for a very long time – those films and the media combination provided the rich colour saturation that normal RA4 printing could never come close to. Kodachrome was, however, preferenced by printers if scenes were heavy with red. Velvia didn't quite nail the red channel, and so Kodachrome was often recommended to photography where the scene is red-heavy.

After the demise of IC, I pivoted to RA4 Kodak Endura Professional metallic. Alas, that too went the way of the dinosaurs in '23, as RA4 print machinery is also doing going forward (no parts = no repairs).

Pivoted, again, to giclée, trying out several finishes from myriad suppliers. None have the smack-you-down high gloss finish of Kodak's Endura Prof. metallic (not even near Ilfochrome Classic), but rather a low, smooth sheen. I am not as happy with today's printing as I was in the time of Ilfochrome.

The Great Yellow Father has absolutely no interest in the reincarnation of Kodachrome. Ever. Same with Ilfochrome Classic. Never. The 'Bring Back Kodachrome!' mantra must surely be up there with the Les Misérables song, 'Do you hear the people sing?' !

Most of us are now printing to giclée, while some with their own darkrooms switched solely to B&W. Others too, are content with their own home-brew RA4 prints. We do not have a lot of truly spectacular options today.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

I get amazing inkjet (Canon) prints from a cheap printer. Original Kodachrome ASA 10 of my father's and modern Fujichrome and current Ektachrome. I was a Cibachrome/Ilfochrome printer in my day. I see 4 Cibachrome prints I made, hanging, from where I'm lounging right now. Beautiful

Pic of the Real McCoys in lounge... 400+ IC prints in dry storage in second house, raw or matted. I carry a few small IC raw (printer's proofs) prints around if I am using the 35mm kit, the format I doggedly adhered to before the jump to medium format. People are astounded such printing could even have existed, though a few get a ring of familiarity if the older term 'Cibachrome' is mentioned in conversation.

I never printed anything from my ancient stock of early and faded Ektachrome 35mm slides.

 

[mshchem]

You will need to bring back Super 8 Kodachrome home movies in huge volumes if want to be successful with still film Kodachrome.

I would love to see Super 8 Ektachrome adopted by more, just not going to happen.

I don't think most photographers really grasp how absolutely vital motion picture use of film is, and always has been, to still film photography. Without "Hollywood" using film and the infrastructure, think about acetate base, chemistry, silver nitrate etc.

Ektachrome seems to be surviving, for now. I hope it's around for many years. If Kodak could formulate a Kodachrome looking E6 I'd buy some. Just so it doesn't dilute the sales of E100

 

[MattKing]

The difference being - Ektachrome/E6 can be economically and profitably developed by labs set up to handle relatively small volumes.
The Kodachrome process only made economic sense when large, high volume motion picture processing lines were used.
When home video started making huge inroads into the home Kodachrome movie film business, Kodachrome's days were numbered.
Fun fact - during several years, the Kodachrome line that had the highest volumes for 35mm slides wasn't even a publicly accessible line - it was National Geographic's own in-house Kodachrome processing machine.
One single user produced more Kodachrome slides for their own in-house use than any of the relatively large Kodak Kodachrome processing labs. Those labs had a lot more movie film keeping them busy.
Plus a bit of 828, 126 and 110 Kodachrome as well, of course.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The difference being - Ektachrome/E6 can be economically and profitably developed by labs set up to handle relatively small volumes.
The Kodachrome process only made economic sense when large, high volume motion picture processing lines were used.
When home video started making huge inroads into the home Kodachrome movie film business, Kodachrome's days were numbered.
Fun fact - during several years, the Kodachrome line that had the highest volumes for 35mm slides wasn't even a publicly accessible line - it was National Geographic's own in-house Kodachrome processing machine.
One single user produced more Kodachrome slides for their own in-house use than any of the relatively large Kodak Kodachrome processing labs. Those labs had a lot more movie film keeping them busy.
Plus a bit of 828, 126 and 110 Kodachrome as well, of course.

I remember sending all my film from when I was growing up in the Bronx to this Kodak lab in New Jersey in those prepaid Kodak mailers. Once, my film got lost there in the lab—my name and address tag had separated from the film during the processing. Fortunately, I kept the receipt tear-off from the mailer with the mailer's serial number, so they were able to track down my film. Once one-hour labs and E6 film came out, I switched to the local lab down the street for processing and printing.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Which is why we need to pressure them to bring it back!

Do not bother to waste your time. Both making Kodachrome and processing Kodachrome are more complex then Ektachrome and both are more costly than the making and processing of Ektachrome.

 

[Paul Howell]

In the 70s I was told that there were 6 Kodak labs world wide that processed Kodachrome, when Kodak stopped production there was only one lab. I think it was in Kansas. After the last roll the processed the processor was salvaged. And I recall for previous threads the original dyes used now banned chemistry. While grandfathered in by the EPA any new start up will require a new formula. It is long gone and will not make a comeback. But once I perfect my time travel machine I will back fetch some and then take the exposed back for processing, should turn over a tidy profit. Maybe the 40s I can get 4X5 ASA 9 version.

 

[MattKing]

In the 70s I was told that there were 6 Kodak labs world wide that processed Kodachrome, when Kodak stopped production there was only one lab

There must have been a few more, because there were at least two in Canada - possibly three.
By the 1980s, the number had started to greatly decrease.
This thread on the rangefinder forum has some interesting information: https://rangefinderforum.com/thread...worldwide-historical-list.69073/#post-1475571