Oh Man! Plaubel Makina III!

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Nokton48

Nokton48

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I have decided to go with pushed to EI 800 Ilford 120 HP5+. I can get a medium format high speed negative with good shadow detail. I've been doing this with 35mm HP5+ and this will upscale that combo. One 21cm camera has a F6.7 max aperture, and the other body has a F6.3 Wide Angle on it. Wanting to get good sharp negs with good dark values detailed. Both of these lenses really only in really bright light, unless you switch up to higher film speed. Also 1/100 is a minimum shutter speed that I think I can handhold with a telephoto lens. HP5+ can be pushed up to two stops IMO for this type of work, but I think two stops is too much for max quality. HP5+ pushes one stop beautifully in the larger 6x9 format. So I'm switching up from Kentmere 400 at EI 250, to HP5+ pushed to EI 800.

A new lens set is on the way from Poland, same Guy who sold me the Makina II 21cm. Hopefully this 7.3cm set fits my Makina II, it looks like it will. And I do also have the black Optical Finder that looks good on my black II.

1936 Plaubel Makina II Brochure 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr
 
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Looking forward to hearing/reading about the lens, first time seeing it, but i also now saw a few listings on ebay with similar lenses.

Great action shot! Did you take some photos with the focal plane shutter to test the accuracy of the focusing scale? I think the f4.2 lens is definitely the best for testing as it‘s very sharp!
As the manual states explicitly that the Weitwinkel lens can‘t be used with the focal plane shutter, i was expecting the stop on the spring for wide angle to be different from the stop for the focal plane shutter.

Last week, and this week, i found 2 items that i have been looking for for years!!
Last week it was the Anticomar 4.2 lens, in a bad condition but i am confident that i can restore it! And TODAY, i just found the Focal plane shutter and bought it for 280€.

What i also did find, but didn‘t buy, is something that i wanted to share here. It is a Plaubel Makina III R leather case, the best looking one i have seen so far!
The seller wants 350€ for it, which is a little too much for me, but i will be looking for this one for my Makina from now on. :smile:

I will share photos of the focal plane shutter when it arrives next week!

Also some other news: turns out my repair of the Makina IIIR was not successful. I bought a professional shutter tester and had to find out that the fast speeds are about half as fast as they need to(slow speeds are very accurate).
The Shutter is now back on the operating table, i am certain that i can fix it, just need to learn and understand a little more about the mechanism!:smile:

I am just coming back to this thread after a long hiatus, and it's always nice to see new information. That is an impressive looking case. Was this on ebay? If so, it seems to be gone now, so it was worth €350 to somebody... I actually had seen a picture of it before while browsing entries under PLAUBEL on worthpoint, but I assumed it was a custom thing as the marking on the front was worn away. But this picture alongside the unmistaken blue plaubel box confirms this was a genuine offering. It is a true swing-open ever-ready case, which would make it much more useful than the cumbersome plaubel bag I have, from which you have to remove the entire camera and attach the back after the fact, in order to operate it.

Btw regarding the 35mm finder, the one plaubel made was an optical one similar to the one made for the Orthar, but instead of demagnifying to give the wide angle view, it magnified it. The mask contained markings for all 3 lenses as well, which would be impossible to do without the magnification. They are rather rare and usually only found in complete Makina outfits, I remember I had contacted multiple sellers of such collections to see if they could be persuaded to sell me just the attachment, but no luck. Getting an anticomar 4.2 was a similar story, but eventually I did get both individually through ebay.

I am also happy to see that the spring that sets the nominal focal distances is such a simple thing and easy to swap out. The one on mine is worn out, so that when it is set for 73 its quite easy to unlock it just by pushing your face against the back, no good... @Nokton48 since you seem to have a rather friendly relationship with it seems the only technician still with some spare parts, could you enquire with him next chance you get if he would have a spare spring, as I'd be keen to send him my camera for repair if so, otherwise I might have to hunt down a makina to scavenge it for parts.... I'd also be interested to send him the curtain shutter back that I also acquired in the meantime (for only £50 I might add!), which similar to Nokton's one has decayed rather badly. As for the special spring for this back, the Makina IIIR manual found on cameramanuals.org seems to make the same suggestion, i.e. that it was required, which would mean Plaubel insisted on this until the end. If Mr. Binder does not have any such spring, I wonder if we could extrapolate the location of this additional hole, based on the dimensions of the camera and the curtain back...
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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Still waiting patiently for my Makina II Wide Angle Lens Set....

Mr. Binder says "Unfortunately i don't have".

So holes will need to be drilled, a good IIIR project!

I still need to comprehensively test mine. Who knows, I could have the right spring! Quicky testing it mine seems to work OK. Will try again soon.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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OK I figured out how to attach my Makina IIIR to my Leitz Tiltall, using the Leitz Ball Head. Using the Focal Plane Scale. Unfortunately they are not even close! DRAT. However I can use the FP Shutter perfectly at infinity, and I'll continue to test ti at more medium lens distances. And I'll shoot some 6x9cm Kentmere at EI 800, so I should be able to test the faster speeds. And of course I can shoot on a tripod if I use the groundglass to focus, then put on the film back. Like using a Mini View Camera. Plaubel used to call the Makina "The World's Smallest View Camera". Which I can now do using the FP Shutter.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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Leitz Tabletop Plaubel Makina III FP Shutter Groundglass by Nokton48, on Flickr

The Leitz Tiltall Tabletop is a good match to the Plaubel Makina IIIR with Focal Plane Shutter. Right now will focus using the groundglass, then put on the film back. And also I scale focus the Focal Plane Shutter using 800 EI Kentmere 400. Next I will test how well the Focal Plane Shutter works with film.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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DOF Scale Plaubel Makina All Four Lenses by Nokton48, on Flickr

I have photocopied and printed, copies of this Plaubel Makiina Depth of Field Scale, which covers the four main Makina lenses. I then taped (Scotch Gift Tape) to the back of each of my 6x9cm Plaubel Makina Film Backs. An instant reference regarding the best focus setting for a particular photograph, and the chart is right at hand, can be studied right before making the exposure. I think this is a very positive improvement in my handling my Makinas, especially when used handheld out in the field.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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SONY DSC by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's five of my Plaubel Makina 6x9 Film Backs, each one has a Depth of Field Scale attached with Scotch Gift Tape (strong stuff). So when Makina Composing and Rangefinding, it's easy to consult the tables, there is one for each of the four main Makina lenses. Especially when using the Wide Angle 7.3cm lens, it is important to set the lens at the best hyperfocal focus setting. Having these tables at hand will facilitate sharper Makina pictures.
 

PercyMcfly

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I am just coming back to this thread after a long hiatus, and it's always nice to see new information. That is an impressive looking case. Was this on ebay? If so, it seems to be gone now, so it was worth €350 to somebody... I actually had seen a picture of it before while browsing entries under PLAUBEL on worthpoint, but I assumed it was a custom thing as the marking on the front was worn away. But this picture alongside the unmistaken blue plaubel box confirms this was a genuine offering. It is a true swing-open ever-ready case, which would make it much more useful than the cumbersome plaubel bag I have, from which you have to remove the entire camera and attach the back after the fact, in order to operate it.

Btw regarding the 35mm finder, the one plaubel made was an optical one similar to the one made for the Orthar, but instead of demagnifying to give the wide angle view, it magnified it. The mask contained markings for all 3 lenses as well, which would be impossible to do without the magnification. They are rather rare and usually only found in complete Makina outfits, I remember I had contacted multiple sellers of such collections to see if they could be persuaded to sell me just the attachment, but no luck. Getting an anticomar 4.2 was a similar story, but eventually I did get both individually through ebay.

I am also happy to see that the spring that sets the nominal focal distances is such a simple thing and easy to swap out. The one on mine is worn out, so that when it is set for 73 its quite easy to unlock it just by pushing your face against the back, no good... @Nokton48 since you seem to have a rather friendly relationship with it seems the only technician still with some spare parts, could you enquire with him next chance you get if he would have a spare spring, as I'd be keen to send him my camera for repair if so, otherwise I might have to hunt down a makina to scavenge it for parts.... I'd also be interested to send him the curtain shutter back that I also acquired in the meantime (for only £50 I might add!), which similar to Nokton's one has decayed rather badly. As for the special spring for this back, the Makina IIIR manual found on cameramanuals.org seems to make the same suggestion, i.e. that it was required, which would mean Plaubel insisted on this until the end. If Mr. Binder does not have any such spring, I wonder if we could extrapolate the location of this additional hole, based on the dimensions of the camera and the curtain back...

I recently cleaned my previously purchased f4.2, just to see that the glass has some annoying scratches which were invisible due to the strong haze..
This week i found another, purchased it and was again greeted with a lot of scratches, this time in every single element. Seems that someone in germany offered bad service jobs for makina lenses.. A lot of the lenses i find have a lot of strong cleaning marks..

Is anyone aware if these lenses are coated? I am playing with the idea of polishing the lenses..

So far, the mechanism for the lenses are all very simple, so i‘ll service the newest member of the family too soon.

As for the spring: Plaubel sold all their spare parts to Wiese Fototechnik in Hamburg Germany. I actually work in Hamburg.(well i work remotely but my office if in Hamburg.)
I should be in Hamburg again this year, so i‘ll see if they want to talk. See what i can find out, and if they have spare springs, especially the one made for the FP Shutter.

Currently i am Servicing a Makina 1, The shutter is an old Compound/Compur shutter, which at first seems complicated but actually is fairly straight forward. This weekend i will be able to purchase new parts for my IIIR‘s shutter, including new springs, so i can try to solve the shutter problem(the fast speeds being 1/400s too slow).

As for the FP Shutter: It works! The curtains are in a bad state, but i should be able to get a replacement. I will study focal plane shutters this year and see when i‘ll be able to tackle this shutter. Maybe the same time i figure out how to get/manufacture a spring for it.
 

PercyMcfly

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My big project that i decided to work on eventually, is to make a back for the Makina that is meant for 65mm kodak vision3 film.
As the 35mm back already has the mechanism necessary, i will design a 3D model for this kind of back, or even a modification of the 35mm or regular plaubel back to 65mm.

The one downside to all this: i am unable to purchase Vision3 in 65mm, because Kodak decided they won‘t sell to private people anymore. (i‘m a few months too late).. All retailers i contacted either ignore me, or tell me that they won‘t sell to me.

This is however a cool project that i want to try, so i won‘t give up just yet..
It‘s unlikely Kodak will ever sell the motion picture film to mere mortals, but one can still hope..
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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Makina II with new 7.3cm Orthar correct vintage Sweet 7.3 Finder by Nokton48, on Flickr

Good to hear from you. Let us know what Weisse tell you. I'll take a spring if they have one.

New to me 7.3cm Plaubel Orthar Makina II vintage. Looks marvelous and sharp at infinity. Looking forward to shooting film with this. As a bonus, the "Mittel" medium yellow Makina Filter I have, fits this directly. So Happy Happy with WA Makinas. Black Olde 7.3 Supplemental Finder looks brand new. Glass appears perfect. The Black Makina II was the "Professional Model". Chrome is beautiful too but for the Hobbyist market.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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SONY DSC by Nokton48, on Flickr


New to me 7.3cm Plaubel Orthar on my Makina II, with Makina 7.3cm Black Finder. Looks sharp on the glass, can't wait to shoot some film. I played with all the controls, it's performing perfectly. Using the Makina II is a hoot, and I've always wanted the 7.3cm lens, you don't see many of them, this one came to me from Poland. This will make a great carryin' around camera, very compact when folded down. I also have a 7.3 for my IIIR, it's fun to use also. I think the Black Professional Finish makes it stealthy. Silver was available for hobbyists.

SONY DSC by Nokton48, on Flickr


Plaubel Makina II Body, with Groundglass Back with Hood. Three correct original lenses. Far left the 7.3cm f6.8 Orthar, then the 100mm F2.9 Orthometar. On the far right, the 21cm F6.8. Black Finder Masks II vintage 7.3cm left, and 21cm right. So a fairly complete set ready to use. Great for carryin' around.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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Hi Mr. McFly,

I have a couple of rolls of Kodak Aero 2424 Infared, that were created and repackaged. 70mm Black and White can be respooled into 120 Paper Rolls, recycling the 120 backing papers and reloading and reusing. BTW I need to shoot up those rolls, they are exactly he same as the Olde Kodak 135 High Speed Infared. I also have an unopened roll of 70mm 2424 frozen, I'm saving it for something special. 70mm is a lot wider than 65mm and I loaded up on it from Ebay. You would also need to slit a couple of mm's off of one side. Quite doable.

I just received a 3D printed adapter for shooting 35mm film in 9cm width, the instructions show rerolling the 35mm film inside cut down backing paper. This could also fit my Makina 6x9 Backs.

Need to dust off and clean and load my Planfilm Holders. I even have some Olde 6.5x9cm sheet film and Honeywell Sheet Film Tank, which holds twelve sheets. And then there also is the Combipan tanks.
 

PercyMcfly

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Hi Mr. McFly,

I have a couple of rolls of Kodak Aero 2424 Infared, that were created and repackaged. 70mm Black and White can be respooled into 120 Paper Rolls, recycling the 120 backing papers and reloading and reusing. BTW I need to shoot up those rolls, they are exactly he same as the Olde Kodak 135 High Speed Infared. I also have an unopened roll of 70mm 2424 frozen, I'm saving it for something special. 70mm is a lot wider than 65mm and I loaded up on it from Ebay. You would also need to slit a couple of mm's off of one side. Quite doable.

I just received a 3D printed adapter for shooting 35mm film in 9cm width, the instructions show rerolling the 35mm film inside cut down backing paper. This could also fit my Makina 6x9 Backs.

Need to dust off and clean and load my Planfilm Holders. I even have some Olde 6.5x9cm sheet film and Honeywell Sheet Film Tank, which holds twelve sheets. And then there also is the Combipan tanks.

I was also thinking about shooting 65mm or 70mm in 120 rolls. 65mm film is especially interesting to me because of Kodak Motion Picture film. With the rising film prices, and the unsure future of film, i feel that immersing oneself in the process becomes increasingly difficult. My hope is that i can somehow obtain one, or several 1000ft rolls of Vision3 and Double-X and be set for the foreseeable future.

Yesterday i tested one of the Makina IIIR‘s i purchased a while back, and it turns out the shutter is accurate enough! My second IIIR now also, after finding some spare parts on ebay, seems to work more accurately.
I purchased a third Makina IIIR this week and will restore it. :smile:

In the meantime i also purchased a second f4.2 100mm and cleaned it up. And out of nowhere, i found a lot of a bunch of accessories, and spotted a focal plane shutter! Got the lot for about 45€.
Now i have two focal plane shutters. This year i want to learn to service these as well.

I‘ll be in Hamburg within the next 4 weeks again for work, so i hope there will be a chance to get in contact with Wiese Fototechnik and see if they have any information on the Spring needed for the FPS and if they have any spares.
 
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I recently cleaned my previously purchased f4.2, just to see that the glass has some annoying scratches which were invisible due to the strong haze..
This week i found another, purchased it and was again greeted with a lot of scratches, this time in every single element. Seems that someone in germany offered bad service jobs for makina lenses.. A lot of the lenses i find have a lot of strong cleaning marks..

Is anyone aware if these lenses are coated? I am playing with the idea of polishing the lenses..

So far, the mechanism for the lenses are all very simple, so i‘ll service the newest member of the family too soon.

As for the spring: Plaubel sold all their spare parts to Wiese Fototechnik in Hamburg Germany. I actually work in Hamburg.(well i work remotely but my office if in Hamburg.)
I should be in Hamburg again this year, so i‘ll see if they want to talk. See what i can find out, and if they have spare springs, especially the one made for the FP Shutter.

Currently i am Servicing a Makina 1, The shutter is an old Compound/Compur shutter, which at first seems complicated but actually is fairly straight forward. This weekend i will be able to purchase new parts for my IIIR‘s shutter, including new springs, so i can try to solve the shutter problem(the fast speeds being 1/400s too slow).

As for the FP Shutter: It works! The curtains are in a bad state, but i should be able to get a replacement. I will study focal plane shutters this year and see when i‘ll be able to tackle this shutter. Maybe the same time i figure out how to get/manufacture a spring for it.

Afaik all post war f4.2 lenses are marked with a red dot or circle on the fore name plate, indicating they are coated. Infact, afaik all post war lenses were coated. My f4.2 specimen has some fine scratches typical of old lenses, but nothing out of the ordinary, I suspect a good clean is all it needs to bring it up to its full function, as do most of the lenses I have. It's good to hear you're learning how to service these lenses and cameras, as such a service is hard to come by it seems and could prove invaluable were you to offer it on commision.

As for the springs, please do enquire about both the default and the focal plane ones. I am an engineer my trade, and have access to both proffesional drafting software & manufacturing leads, so if I was given dimensions, or better yet physical articles to inspect, I could prepare drawings and help find someone to manufacture them without breaking the bank. Similarly if you need any help making your custom 65mm back do let me know.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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I've been having a shoot-out between my Makina II, and Makina IIIR, both with the 7.3cm Orthars. Wide angle comparison F22 with Mittel Plaubel Yellow Filters. Two frames each, Full Sun Day, 1/200 at F22, for a direct comparison. Kentmere 400 120 pushed to EI 800. I think these will make nice 5x7 RC prints. I expect the Orthars will be excellent.
 

PercyMcfly

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Afaik all post war f4.2 lenses are marked with a red dot or circle on the fore name plate, indicating they are coated. Infact, afaik all post war lenses were coated. My f4.2 specimen has some fine scratches typical of old lenses, but nothing out of the ordinary, I suspect a good clean is all it needs to bring it up to its full function, as do most of the lenses I have. It's good to hear you're learning how to service these lenses and cameras, as such a service is hard to come by it seems and could prove invaluable were you to offer it on commision.

As for the springs, please do enquire about both the default and the focal plane ones. I am an engineer my trade, and have access to both proffesional drafting software & manufacturing leads, so if I was given dimensions, or better yet physical articles to inspect, I could prepare drawings and help find someone to manufacture them without breaking the bank. Similarly if you need any help making your custom 65mm back do let me know.

Two f4.2 copies i have do not have a red dot indicating a coating, but they are definitely coated(removed the coating of one because if had too many scratches).. But recently, i purchased a Makina IIIR, which came with a lot of accessories i didn‘t own yet, including a f4.2 Anticomar with the red circle indicator.
It also came with the wide angle and tele lens, with all of them looking in great condition. They especially don‘t seem to have any cleaning marks :smile:

The lenses are quite greasy and need a proper clean and lubrication, and they are the „more modern“ examples of the lenses, which means there will be definitely something to learn for me. It seems that the engineering of these lenses has evolved over time, as most lenses i worked on, even when being the „same lens“ had been machined or designed differently, with different levels of quality, sometimes added mechanisms, or even just different tolerances.

As for the Makina parts, i was at Wiese Fototechnik, but they said it‘s unlikely they have many parts, as they acquired the parts and tools of Plaubel when they closed mostly for the Makina 67 parts.
I will measure the springs myself and do some trigonometry to figure out what kind of adjustment would be needed to allow for using the focal plane shutter. If i have spare springs, i could also send them to you for measuring and possibly re-producing. Adjusting the spring, after properly measuring the difference between the flange focal distance of the wide angle orthar and the Focal Plane Shutter width, it should then be easy to produce focal plane Shutter springs.
I though however that maybe some kind of inlay should also be possible..

Also, i have started work on a Makina IIIR, which has several problems. I made tools and figured out how to disassemble almost every part of it, cleaned some very old grease(even the rangefinder has some grease that probable was never cleaned/renewed after it left the factory).. and also figured out how to clean, wax/treat and re-blacken the leather and also the bellows.

I am thinking about also removing the leather, which would allow me to disassemble the camera even further, and fully lubricate the entire mechanism with fresh lubricant. It would make operating the makina much easier(i noticed that some examples are very difficult to operate). In some instances the mechanism also just needs to be adjusted slightly, as some parts have bent slightly over time, still need to figure out how to determine this, other than just „feeling“. I have a few examples now so it should not be a problem to compare them.

And lastly, about the film back: With motion picture film being so difficult to come by now, i am currently not spending so much time on the idea, but, my main goal was to allow for it to be adjustable, similar to how the Hasselblad XPan is adjustable, to shoot in different motion picture formats(not just IMAX) Which would probably mean either IMAX(horizontal) or Panoramic(vertical).
If i come around to it, i will 3D print examples first in a larger scale to confirm operation, and then try to learn some machining skills to make an example for myself. If i feel like this could actually be useful for others, i would make a new design that would be easier to make. A simple 3D printable version would probably be the easiest, but for myself, i would definitely want something that looks more like Plaubel designed it.
 
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Nokton48

Nokton48

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Hello Again Plaubel Makina Fans. I bought this 3D Printed Four Piece 35mm Film Back Insert set for $12 on Ebay. It's plug and play with Olde Plaubel Makina Film Backs, and any olde scrap 35mm film you may have around, B&W or color. Not perfectly flat, I wonder if an optical glass plate could be added, to flatten the springy 35mm to the Makina Pressure Plate. Then you could prolly shoot panos with your Makina, making it a lot more useful and usuable. And sooo easy to do. If you stop down as I do, it should be fine to use, as-is??

Plaubel Makina 120 Back Coverted to 35mm Four 3D Inserts 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Plaubel Makina 120 Back Coverted to 35mm Four 3D Inserts 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Plaubel Makina 120 Back Coverted to 35mm Four 3D Inserts 3 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Plaubel Makina 120 Back Coverted to 35mm Four 3D Inserts 4 by Nokton48, on Flickr

You know Guys, same thing could be done with 70mm film cut down to fit 120 spools. Hmmmm....... Slit down 70mm could be re-taped onto 120 backing paper. Great cost savings, B&W 70mm is on Ebay. Lots of ways to make these Olde Makina backs play again.
 
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