Owners of Jobo CPA/CPP: is it worth it for B/W?

I don't have either of these two processors but on occasions I have used my CPE2 (The baby brother) and found it difficult to judge the times needed for correct development. it is suggested that the times are reduced by 15%. This is only a ball park figure and in my experience not to be relied upon.

Also with some developers such as Rodinal the recommended method involves 30 seconds continuous agitation at the start and one inversion every 30 seconds for the remainder of the time. Virtually impossible with a rotary processor.

hiroko said:

2. When using Jobo for film wash not all developer suitable with rotation due to oxidisation( rodinal , pyro)

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You mean, by "wash", using the jobo to develop film? We generally use "wash" to refer to rinsing all chemicals (namely fixer) off the film.

Hello Everybody,
Thanks a lot for great insights into this topic, I've decided to not use Jobo processor for B&W and rather continue my old trusty method. You've all helped me a lot!

hiroko said:

2. When using Jobo for film wash not all developer suitable with rotation due to oxidisation( rodinal , pyro)

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As pointed out by @koraks, this is not correct as far as pyro is concerned. I've used Pyrocat-HD and 510-Pyro for sheet film in Expert Drums for many years. I've even used PMK without issue which, if one listens to common lore, cannot be used.

Alan9940 said:

As pointed out by @koraks, this is not correct as far as pyro is concerned. I've used Pyrocat-HD and 510-Pyro for sheet film in Expert Drums for many years. I've even used PMK without issue which, if one listens to common lore, cannot be used.

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if it works for you by all means just go ahead. i didnt say it cannot be used in jobo. Pyro has many types generally personally i find pyro works great in stand or hand development rather then rotatIon.

hiroko said:

Pyro has many types generally personally i find pyro works great in stand or hand development rather then rotatIon.

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I've used in particular pyrocat HD in both rotary and manual development. It's a dependable developer that just always works in my experience. What rotary development may/will not give you, is the emphasized edge effects that you can get with minimal agitation - but I doubt you'd ever be able to see the difference in terms of edge effects/acutance between constant agitation and, say, once per 30 or 60 seconds. IME things start to become visible once you have intervals of several minutes between agitation cycles. But that doesn't necessarily take a pyro developer; the same will be true for e.g. rodinal.

The main concern with pyro vs. rotary development has historically been the propensity of pyro developers to oxidize rapidly and thus leave a fairly dense stain all over the film. For enlargement, this generally doesn't hurt, necessarily, although it's also not really a benefit in any way. Those who have concerns about the useful lifetime of the developer may choose to renew the developer halfway development; I think @Carnie Bob does this with PMK Pyro. Maybe he can comment.

I agree with the notion 'what works for you' etc; we all have our preferences and one approach isn't necessarily better than another. Personally I've done a lot of rotary as well as manual development; my inclination towards the latter at this point is mostly laziness; not wanting to drag the Jobo from its storage space, fill it up, drain & let dry etc. For 35mm B&W I also currently prefer manual agitation with 3-minute intervals which I think (it's more a hunch than an objective observation) gives nice acutance on films like HP5+, Double-X and Fomapan 200.

martinobanana said:

Thanks a lot for great insights into this topic, I've decided to not use Jobo processor for B&W and rather continue my old trusty method. You've all helped me a lot!

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Great; I'm glad to hear the latter, regardless of which option you ultimately go with!

martinobanana said:

Hello Everybody,
Thanks a lot for great insights into this topic, I've decided to not use Jobo processor for B&W and rather continue my old trusty method. You've all helped me a lot!

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Welcome to Photrio!

I found that since the Jobo processor at my place is already set up, it was easier to use it to process black & white film too.

For small occasional film development Jobo is nonsense. It's even bigger nonsense for paper (I want to see what is happening until it is done).

For one who shoots and develops film regularly, Jobo is a good option, but volume and frequency is key, and it needs to be set up for quick access. If I had my Jobo put away after every job, taking it out for even doing 10 rolls is basically a no.

As for consistency of development, if one pays attention and follows same manual routine, which is not a rocket science, Jobo is not going to make any improvements. Jobo will do the movements and that part can be seen as consistent. it's a difference between a car advertised as having 4 wheels vs. one with 4 round wheels.

If were doing any colour my opinion would probably change, not for B&W.

I went through the mind game of trying to make myself believe I needed to keep my CPP2 w/lift. Long story short..........it's been gone for 20 yrs or more and I really don't miss it. If I did more color I would have kept it, but when Cibachrome bit the dust I needed the JOBO like I needed a hole in my head. First, I got it for almost nothing in a trade with another camera dealer so nothing invested or not much anyway. I sold it for a very good price and took that money and bought a B&J 8X10 camera and some B&W enlarging paper. I think a reason for having a JOBO processor would be higher volume of work than I do and for color, which I don't do. I also thought JOBO products were just a little overpriced for what you get. That's just my opinion anyway, for what it matters.

John Wiegerink said:

I also thought JOBO products were just a little overpriced for what you get.

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They're also a specialty item, so the price will be high, anyway.

Still, $1000 for the super 8 developing tank?

Don_ih said:

They're also a specialty item, so the price will be high, anyway.

Still, $1000 for the super 8 developing tank?

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Yes, a little much. Ouch!

Since b&w processing is much more tolerant of mild temperature variations (and I am a very lazy person) I’ve found the B’s processor with Paterson tanks to be an ideal solution for my needs. Much simpler and cheaper than a Jobo and allows for hybrid agitation methods (30 sec continuous followed by manual followed by continuous stop/fix phases, for instance.) Haven’t tried pyro yet but I will give that a whirl soon.

You have to mind, that B\W process sometimes requires very low agitation, or even "stand" process. But you have to fill tank full. It is impossible with JOBO.
The +++ of JOBO is chemistry saving. It is actual for big amounts of processing films. If you like to test different films & chemistry in B\W, no need of processing machine at all.
I am using JOBO ATL-1500. No rotation control, only 24 & 38 degrees temperature & disposable chemistry only.