Perplexed: Xtol clip test?

[peter k.]

Xtol is a new developer for me, on research about it, found that this clear developer does not change color as it ages, and will suddenly go dead. Period! So it was suggested before one developed with it to develop a clip test.to see if it were still active. Had some strips from Arista 400 from cutting down 4x5 to 3x4 size and grabbed one of these and a couple of empty jam jars, made a 1;1 mix two inches in the jar, and developed the strip normally for 8 min. Agitation wash and all. Now we have a dark strip.. with the lower two inches darker than the upper half, do to the only time it was in developer was during the agitation every 30'sec.
So how in the 'ell can you tell if the developer is still good?
What do you compare it to?

 

[pentaxuser]

. Agitation wash and all. Now we have a dark strip.. with the lower two inches darker than the upper half, do to the only time it was in developer was during the agitation every 30'sec.
So how in the 'ell can you tell if the developer is still good?
What do you compare it to?

It is not clear to me from what you have said if the whole strip was in the developer for the time recommended for this particular film. If it wasn't all in the developer it should have been but as long as half was in the developer the whole time then you judge the developer's potency from the black strip. So you know it works but the test I use is to hold the black strip up to a tungsten bulb's clear filament. If it then goes from being a bright glow in which the filament is indistinguishable to one in which the filament becomes a single strand of filament and looks orange then the developer is fine.

Incidentally I once took my Xtol to the point of it still working but giving me low contrast negatives and then changed to fresh Xtol. The old Xtol which looked pretty clear on its own but was now a pale straw colour against the new Xtol which was colourless like water so in my experience it does change colour. I have yet to experience total and sudden death with Xtol


I hope this helps

pentaxuser

 

[peter k.]

No the full strip was not in the developer, the upper half got undeveloped as it only had developer on it during the agitation process.
So your test uses a regular incandescent light bulb?

 

[peter k.]

If it then goes from being a bright glow in which the filament is indistinguishable to one in which the filament becomes a single strand of filament and looks orange then the developer is fine.

Ha had to go out to the shop to find a regular old bulb, and put the test strip up to it... that's way cool. The developed density shuts down the brightness of the bulb, so you can see the filament. .

 

[pentaxuser]

Ha had to go out to the shop to find a regular old bulb, and put the test strip up to it... that's way cool. The developed density shuts down the brightness of the bulb, so you can see the filament. .

Yes that's the only drawback, Peter. You need the old style clear bulb and I had to buy one as well for the darkroom. Apart from the time processing a film which I do with the room light on, once the film is is the tank of course, the big energy consuming 100W clear tungsten is on for relatively short periods only. It strikes me now but I haven't bothered about it, is that if you take a minute to swop a low energy LED room bulb for the clear for the test only then it will consume practically no energy at all

I am tempted to do this now I think about it

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

What do you compare it to?

You need to set a benchmark using fresh developer. Save the strip of film created under known-good conditions. Use that to compare the actual test strips against. Obviously, a densitometer would be even nicer, but let's not assume everyone wants to/can get one.

The light bulb trick gets you in the ballpark as does the old newspaper print trick, but neither have the benefit of a proper benchmark and therefore will remain stuck at the guess-and-seat-of-the-pants level. Which can be perfectly adequate, but it's subjective.

 

[peter k.]

Hmm ok just mixed the Xtol yesterday so will save that strip.
In the bright sun, viewing through the strip, over newspaper, can't read a dang thing, its that dense. .
Wonder once we get the developing down on the new film where also learning, Tmax 400, and like the development, should shoot a scene with shade and highlights and cut the undeveloped 4x5 into strips so as to compare them to each other later on.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I used that developer for years and never had any issues with it. I think there were issues with the one litre bags many years ago... I always used it one shot (diluted 1+1). I've had stock (mixed with distilled water) up to a year that was fine, kept in bottles with air squeezed out. Doesn't change colour? Yes, it does actually. I've seen it go slightly...very slight, yellow. In that case I would do a clip test.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

The clip test is pretty simple: establish a baseline by developing a strip of a particular film in fresh developer. No need to develop it for the full developing time 5-6 minutes is more than enough. fix, wash and keep this clip. Then, test the developer as it ages with a strip of the same film for the same time. Compare it visually with your baseline strip by holding both up to the light. If there's no noticeable difference, you're good to go.

Best,

Doremus

 

[eatfrog]

I used that developer for years and never had any issues with it. I think there were issues with the one litre bags many years ago... I always used it one shot (diluted 1+1). I've had stock (mixed with distilled water) up to a year that was fine, kept in bottles with air squeezed out. Doesn't change colour? Yes, it does actually. I've seen it go slightly...very slight, yellow. In that case I would do a clip test.

This is consistent with my own experiences too. It has never gone bad on me, I mix up 5l at a time, squirt in some protectan and after 10 months it has still been good. Stored in 20-25c, and no direct sunlight.

 

[radiant]

Do not use xtol if you're not planning to spend it in few months. After mixing store into separate bottles and fill all the way up, leave no space for air. Also it relatively cheap developer so no need to "spare" it. Just dump it if you're not sure of it's age.

I'm constantly using xtol and have no problems with it. I think my third or fourth bag set is in use.

All tools need to be used in the way they are designed to be used. Xtol is not meant to be stored for ages.

 

[peter k.]

yep its not Hc110

 

[Mackinaw]

Do not use xtol if you're not planning to spend it in few months. After mixing store into separate bottles and fill all the way up, leave no space for air. Also it relatively cheap developer so no need to "spare" it. Just dump it if you're not sure of it's age.

I'm constantly using xtol and have no problems with it. I think my third or fourth bag set is in use.

All tools need to be used in the way they are designed to be used. Xtol is not meant to be stored for ages.

I've used Xtol stored for a year with good results. The stuff I'm using now was mixed in April and works fine.

Jim B.

 

[mike c]

Never have had problems with Xtol,keep it stored in a gallon jug, use distilled water to mix it, and do use a clip test when stored over a month in the gallon container. Its been over 2 months in a partially full jug.

 

[radiant]

I've used Xtol stored for a year with good results. The stuff I'm using now was mixed in April and works fine.

Jim B.

It works fine until it doesn't. April is a far stretch already, I would myself dump it and mix fresh batch. It is a "professional" developer which also means one will probably use it in short period and dumping one batch is not a biggie.

People complain a lot that xtol "dies suddenly". It doesn't die "suddenly" - stock mix lasts for certain amount time every time and there is no "randomness" or "unpredictability" whatsoever. Mix it and use it in specified period, that's all.

 

[dpurdy]

I keep my XTOL in a full jug. As it is not the developer I always use there are times that it gets questionably old. If I shoot a bunch of film, as I did recently, that I want to process in XTOL, I shoot a zone test on the same type film and then do a trial run at established time. As the test film is bound for the trash and I can get a good idea of it examining it wet, it doesn't take long to do. My recent film I processed in XTOL over 6 months old and it was fine.

 

[Bill Burk]

The snip test (as I perform it) is not a sensitometry test.

It's just Go / No Go.

If the snip starts to turn gray in a minute or so... It's a Go for the developer.

Then I just develop the film I was going to develop anyway... assuming the developer is perfectly fine.

 

[NB23]

I don’t understand these test strips/clips...

To me, a proper test would be to cut a 6 inch strip from an exposed film (in the dark) and develop it thoroughly. I would then see what is to be seen.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Xtol is a new developer for me, on research about it, found that this clear developer does not change color as it ages, and will suddenly go dead. Period! So it was suggested before one developed with it to develop a clip test.to see if it were still active. Had some strips from Arista 400 from cutting down 4x5 to 3x4 size and grabbed one of these and a couple of empty jam jars, made a 1;1 mix two inches in the jar, and developed the strip normally for 8 min. Agitation wash and all. Now we have a dark strip.. with the lower two inches darker than the upper half, do to the only time it was in developer was during the agitation every 30'sec.
So how in the 'ell can you tell if the developer is still good?
What do you compare it to?

As a long time xtol user, suddenly going dead can happen, but, you have to really be careless with keeping it, and mix it up with questionable water instead of distilled water.

If you want to test if it’s dead, then the test you did confirms that it’s still alive. How active? You monitor activity levels just like you would any other developer. You run a test strip at regular time intervals and compare activity over time.

That being said, unless you keep it super safe, after 6 months you risk it starting to go dead, unless you keep mixing new xtol and add it to your stock solution. Xtol depends on a constant flow of new developer into the stock to stay alive, which means if you use it one-shot, don’t be so stingy... you want to basically average using at least 5L of stock solution per 6 months, no matter how much or how little film you process. Xtol is not a developer that you mix up and two years later you’re still working though your 5L batch.

 

[Bill Burk]

I don’t understand these test strips/clips...

To me, a proper test would be to cut a 6 inch strip from an exposed film (in the dark) and develop it thoroughly. I would then see what is to be seen.

A 6 inch sensitometry strip developed for the full time and read in densitometer is certainly important for process control.

But when you're "worried" about developer death... a little gray in a minute or so tells you that when you put film into that developer at least your developer is not dead and you will at least get something. Especially with 35mm film when you cut off the leader already and it's sitting on your table. Just drop it in the beaker and confirm that your first beaker is "a developer". Takes only a minute and you probably could do some other preparation in the same time.

 

[msage]

Sounds like a lot of work! There is a easier way.
After mixing (using tap water, never had a problem but others may need to use distilled water) I split into brown glass liter bottles. I label with the date mixed and the "dump" date (6 months per Kodak).
That is it!
Xtol is $10 at my local camera shop, That works out to $.25 a roll (assuming 1:1 dilution, 35mm film and my math is correct). Usually I don't use all of the developer in 6 months but film is expense not to mention my time. I always error on the side of caution in these matters. To be successful in photography we need to control the factors we can and using fresh chemicals is a no brainer!

 

[Tom Kershaw]

For some reason XTOL is more like $20 in the UK... However, I've never had a problem with XTOL mixed in distilled water - I'm in a very hard water area and would not mix XTOL with tap water here.

 

[NB23]

A 6 inch sensitometry strip developed for the full time and read in densitometer is certainly important for process control.

But when you're "worried" about developer death... a little gray in a minute or so tells you that when you put film into that developer at least your developer is not dead and you will at least get something. Especially with 35mm film when you cut off the leader already and it's sitting on your table. Just drop it in the beaker and confirm that your first beaker is "a developer". Takes only a minute and you probably could do some other preparation in the same time.

I fully agre. However, for me, film photography is not about speed nor about saving minutes.

A One minute test versus a 7 minutes tests is what it boils down to. That’s a 6 minutes difference.

But to be honest, I’ve never tested a developer. When I mix a bag of d76 or xtol or even when I open a bottle of dd-x or Ilfosol-3, I use it up within 3 days. That’s 20 rolls of film that I have usually shot within the week before.

 

[Bill Burk]

Ah, I work at a slower pace. I mix a gallon that lasts me a year. But I haven't had a failure of D-76 developer in the past two decades. So I know the risk is low that I'll have dead developer. But there was that one time.

Still, occasionally I'll take a sideways glance at a half-filled bottle that's sat around for a couple months. Maybe it's not any good?
Then I'll do the test I described. The results are immediate and then I decide whether to toss that last part of the bottle and open a new one, or if I just go ahead and use it.

I'm lucky to have a sensitometer. To use it for making an exposure takes only a second. But there's a bit of effort to get ready to use it. And I don't get the results of a sensitometry test right away (I don't read it until after the film's dry). It's probably two weeks before I graph the curve. I love doing this kind of testing but I do it at my leisure.

 

[pentaxuser]

Based on the recent Kodak announcement on which there is a thread here on Photrio a leader clip test might be the sensible norm for even fresh developer at least until Kodak is able to give the "All clear" announcement

pentaxuser