Resource icon

PMB Pyro-Metol-Borax film developer

On The Mound

A
On The Mound

  • 5
  • 3
  • 118
Finn Slough-Bouquet

A
Finn Slough-Bouquet

  • 0
  • 1
  • 67
Table Rock and the Chimneys

A
Table Rock and the Chimneys

  • 4
  • 0
  • 126
Jizo

D
Jizo

  • 4
  • 1
  • 112
Sparrow

A
Sparrow

  • 3
  • 0
  • 105

Forum statistics

Threads
197,418
Messages
2,758,660
Members
99,492
Latest member
f8andbethere
Recent bookmarks
0

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,246
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
Ian Grant submitted a new resource:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) - PMB Pyro-Metol-Borax film developer

THE BRITISH JOURNAL PHOTOGRAPHIC ALMANAC 1952 156o

Pyro-Metol-Borax Fine-Grain Developer

[TABLE="width: 299"]

[TD="width: 204"] Metol
[/TD]
[TD="width: 79"] 2 gm.
[/TD]


[TD="width: 204"] Sodium sulphite (anhydrous)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 79"] 100 gms.
[/TD]


[TD="width: 204"] Pyro
[/TD]
[TD="width: 79"] 2 gm.
[/TD]


[TD="width: 204"] Borax
[/TD]
[TD="width: 79"] 6...


(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Trask

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
1,925
Location
Virginia (northern)
Format
35mm RF
Ian,

Having no experience with pyro developers, I'm not sure if "pyro" as used in this formula is pyrogallol or pyrocatechin. When you search on "pyro" at Photog Formulary, both come up.

Looks like an interesting formula to try out. Thanks
 
OP
OP
Ian Grant

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,246
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
When the word Pyro is used in a formula it's always Pyrogallol, I've not tried this developer but the implication is it's finer grained than D76.

Pyrogallol was used in commercial D&P developers by both Ilford & Kodak because it gives clean working negatives with less base fog. A cleaner working developer will have better tonality.

Ian
 

Relayer

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Odessa, UA
Format
35mm
Well known pyro-metol formula is Pyro-Triethanolamine. Some time ago I was playing with Pyro+Phenidone developer with next fine grain formula:

RD-108
Sodium sulphite 50g
Pyrogallol 6g
Phenidone 0.2g
Water 1l
pH 8.1

starting dev.time 9-12min.
 

pentaxpete

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
633
Location
Brentwood, England
Format
Multi Format
I found this in the 'BJ Almanac' and made it up and developed some outdated Kodak Tri-X 120 film in it -- time needed was 13 mins -- it did not keep well though.
 
OP
OP
Ian Grant

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,246
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
Michael the original Kodak Fine grain developer used only Metol, I've posted it(there was a url link here which no longer exists). The so called Haist version based on this.

There's two interesting articles on the Moderrn uses of Pyro written late 1930's and eearly 40's that I must put online.

Ian
 

Murray Kelly

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
661
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Format
Sub 35mm
14 fl. oz?

Ian I am still unable to equate 14 fl.oz. to approx 1.5L. 14 fl. oz. is nearer 400ml. Could you check that source again, please?
Sounds more like 140 oz. or about 2 US gallon maybe? 14oz is rather left-field to me.

Metol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 gr (2g)
Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) . . . . . . 400gr (100g)
Borax . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 gr (2g)
Water to . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 ozs *** (If US oz 1600ml - UK 1540ml)

Murray

Michael the original Kodak Fine grain developer used only Metol, I've posted it(there was a url link here which no longer exists). The so called Haist version based on this.

There's two interesting articles on the Moderrn uses of Pyro written late 1930's and eearly 40's that I must put online.

Ian
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pentaxpete

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
633
Location
Brentwood, England
Format
Multi Format
TRASK : you asked how the negatives came out -- well, the fog level was low enough and the negatives printed well -- after one film went through I noticed the next time I used it the negs were under -developed -- I think the developer oxidises quickly.
 

Pixophrenic

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
368
Location
Canada
Format
Multi Format
This is an interesting developer, which I picked independently of Photrio first from a booklet of Alfonse Cuisinier. There is development time of 14 minutes, but not much else, accompanying the formula, only that “According to its author, this developer gives images whose contrast is more normal than that of the images generated by the D-76.”

In a subsequent private conversation Ian gave me some info about the developer author, that is rather difficult to find, thanks Ian, for your efforts. This person was a well-connected amateur. IMO, a replacement of hydroquinone with pyrogallol, despite them both being hydroxybenzenes, is non-equivalent. I do not have any data that metol is superadditive with pyrogallol, but I know that pyrogallol activity is very dependent on pH, and at pH 8 is practically zero, while above 9 it is quite substantial. BTW, all other pyro-metol developers I know have a significantly higher pH (9.0-9.5 or above). In comparison, hydroquinone has zero activity at pH 10 and below and exhibits apparent weak superadditivity with metol.

So, I was intrigued and made small portions of this developer, adjusted to pH 8.2, 8.5 and 9.2., in pairs of plus or minus pyro. Without boring you with curves, I can say that at pH 8 there is no difference between the images generated by development in a solution plus or minus pyro. At pH 8.5 there is a subtle difference, primarily in the highlights, but IMHO only a highly trained observer will be able to see it. So, pH 7.6 mentioned in the BJP text clearly does not fit. My results could be explained by suggesting that my pyro lost activity, but the other two developers I made recently are performing according to expectations.

So, we are dealing here essentially with a soft-working metol-sulfite like diluted D23, which, depending on the quality of sulfite, will have somewhat better highlight discrimination. Oddly, with sulfite of worse quality the visual appeal of the images may be stronger and the development time considerably shorter. With tight pH control, one can arrive at a very personal highlight control developer, not easily achievable with D-76. I do not know how well it will keep, but within two weeks of my humble experimentation the initial pink color stayed constant, despite use. I hope this helps.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom