Returning to Analog Large Format: The Big Shop

[Grafmatic]

Hello… Still a noob here… for anybody who hasn’t seen my posts, I am a former and soon to be returning large format, sheet film photographer.
I am in the process of figuring out what’s out there and how cheap I can get it for. I’ve got the camera on order: Intrepid 4x5. My first lens is here: 180mm Nikkor-W. (Future planned lenses are 120mm and 90mm Super Angulon clones by Fuji and Ilex respectively. .I will be developing in a Stearman Press 6-sheet daylight tank.

stuff like film processing supplies, focusing cloth, film holders, and most other odds and ends like cable releases, and so forth, I either have or can obtain easily. I was dreading finding out what light meters cost these days. Fortunately, I already have one: my iPhone. It turns out there are a number of spot meter apps, most supporting the zone system, I even found one that compensate for reciprocity effect, having the curves for a lot of popular films programmed into it. I haven’t given it the acid test of actual use, but assuming it works, it saves me both kit weight and money.

Where I am getting stuck is in several areas. First one would be tripods. Picking out a tripod is tricky for me. First off, I’m 6 foot two. Second I hate tripods that I have to pull or crank the center column up 2 feet from the tripod yoke. Third, I am not a spring chicken anymore and want it to be as light as possible. These requirements may seem to be mutually exclusive, but I did it way back when: when I was shooting large format before, I used a Linhof record giant tripod, which was amazingly light for its available height- on level terrain, I could get the camera high enough that I had to stand on something to see through it, without raising the center column at all. With a Bogen hex plate head, the whole thing weighed about 9 pounds and easily supported a monorail camera.

I have not been able to find one used nor even a picture of one, but that’s what I’m looking for or something like it. I welcome recommendations on tripods.

The other area where I am stuck is filters. I note that Wratten filters are still being made and sold. I haven’t been able to find filter holders. There also are, or were, other options like Cokin and Lee; still in the research phase on those. I could probably work with about six filters. I just don’t want to have to duplicate them across three lenses. Advice and recommendations welcomed here also.

I found a tripod with good height, although the legs are four section so it might take a while to put up. It also is inexpensive, enough so to make me wonder if it’s a piece of crap or not. Anyway, here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/Concept-Compact-Aluminum-K234A7-FH-03/dp/B0D2HPGJCZ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

Any advice or recommendations are welcome and thanks in advance.

 

[pbromaghin]

I'm not smart enough to answer any of your questions, but welcome back!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hello… Still a noob here… for anybody who hasn’t seen my posts, I am a former and soon to be returning large format, sheet film photographer.
I am in the process of figuring out what’s out there and how cheap I can get it for. I’ve got the camera on order: Intrepid 4x5. My first lens is here: 180mm Nikkor-W. (Future planned lenses are 120mm and 90mm Super Angulon clones by Fuji and Ilex respectively. .I will be developing in a Stearman Press 6-sheet daylight tank.

stuff like film processing supplies, focusing cloth, film holders, and most other odds and ends like cable releases, and so forth, I either have or can obtain easily. I was dreading finding out what light meters cost these days. Fortunately, I already have one: my iPhone. It turns out there are a number of spot meter apps, most supporting the zone system, I even found one that compensate for reciprocity effect, having the curves for a lot of popular films programmed into it. I haven’t given it the acid test of actual use, but assuming it works, it saves me both kit weight and money.

Where I am getting stuck is in several areas. First one would be tripods. Picking out a tripod is tricky for me. First off, I’m 6 foot two. Second I hate tripods that I have to pull or crank the center column up 2 feet from the tripod yoke. Third, I am not a spring chicken anymore and want it to be as light as possible. These requirements may seem to be mutually exclusive, but I did it way back when: when I was shooting large format before, I used a Linhof record giant tripod, which was amazingly light for its available height- on level terrain, I could get the camera high enough that I had to stand on something to see through it, without raising the center column at all. With a Bogen hex plate head, the whole thing weighed about 9 pounds and easily supported a monorail camera.

I have not been able to find one used nor even a picture of one, but that’s what I’m looking for or something like it. I welcome recommendations on tripods.

The other area where I am stuck is filters. I note that Wratten filters are still being made and sold. I haven’t been able to find filter holders. There also are, or were, other options like Cokin and Lee; still in the research phase on those. I could probably work with about six filters. I just don’t want to have to duplicate them across three lenses. Advice and recommendations welcomed here also.

I found a tripod with good height, although the legs are four section so it might take a while to put up. It also is inexpensive, enough so to make me wonder if it’s a piece of crap or not. Anyway, here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/Concept-Compact-Aluminum-K234A7-FH-03/dp/B0D2HPGJCZ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

Any advice or recommendations are welcome and thanks in advance.

when it comes to tripods, why would you get anything but a Manfrotto/Bogen?

 

[koraks]

I found a tripod with good height, although the legs are four section so it might take a while to put up. It also is inexpensive, enough so to make me wonder if it’s a piece of crap or not.

It states its rated for 5kg. Given the optimism in how manufacturers generally rate the maximum loads for tripods & heads, I'd consider that to be flimsy even for a light-weight, small Intrepid.
Of course, there's nothing wrong in principle to start out with this cheap option, use it for a time so you can understand what you require in a tripod, and then upgrade to something more sturdy, keeping this one as a spare or for use with small format cameras.

I hate tripods that I have to pull or crank the center column up 2 feet from the tripod yoke

You do realize that the tripod you linked to is exactly that, right? Its 2m or so total length is with the center column extended. It's rare to see tripods that reach this high without extending a center column - which probably has a lot to do with the average height of humans...

A tripod is a compromise as you implied, and this means that if you want something that's long, sturdy and yet lightweight, you're not going to find it below around $500 or so. Anything in the $100-200 price range will compromise away from the ideal, and that usually happens on the sturdiness dimension. Count on the K+R tripod you linked to acting as a wind vane, the gearing on the head will likely not lock up dependably with a large format camera mounted on it and the legs may or may not bend, making the tripod sway/torque with a decent weight on top of it. It may still be quite usable within these limitations, much like te Intrepid camera itself, which is of course also a compromise especially on the sturdiness axis!

 

[grain elevator]

when it comes to tripods, why would you get anything but a Manfrotto/Bogen?

Because used Gitzos are also available!

 

[grain elevator]

Because used Gitzos are also available!

Very decent, cheaper, but good and lightweight tripods are made by e.g. Feisol (from Taiwan) or Sirui (from China). I'd trust these brands over many other cheaper ones, they're dedicated tripod makers who have established themselves in the market after carbon fibre had taken over. But I don't have experience with their big models.

 

[Petrochemist]

It states its rated for 5kg. Given the optimism in how manufacturers generally rate the maximum loads for tripods & heads, I'd consider that to be flimsy even for a light-weight, small Intrepid.
Of course, there's nothing wrong in principle to start out with this cheap option, use it for a time so you can understand what you require in a tripod, and then upgrade to something more sturdy, keeping this one as a spare or for use with small format cameras.



You do realize that the tripod you linked to is exactly that, right? Its 2m or so total length is with the center column extended. It's rare to see tripods that reach this high without extending a center column - which probably has a lot to do with the average height of humans...

A tripod is a compromise as you implied, and this means that if you want something that's long, sturdy and yet lightweight, you're not going to find it below around $500 or so. Anything in the $100-200 price range will compromise away from the ideal, and that usually happens on the sturdiness dimension. Count on the K+R tripod you linked to acting as a wind vane, the gearing on the head will likely not lock up dependably with a large format camera mounted on it and the legs may or may not bend, making the tripod sway/torque with a decent weight on top of it. It may still be quite usable within these limitations, much like te Intrepid camera itself, which is of course also a compromise especially on the sturdiness axis!

It may be rare to find tripods that reach a good height without raising the central column, but they do exist. I have a couple of old heavy tripods that manage this.
If looking for a new tripod for LF use I would avoid any tripod having a central column (though my Manfrotto 058B which is one of those I referred to earlier does have one that I never use) FWIW it cost £100, but it's certainly not light!

wrt filters Cokin holders are still all over the place, but if you're not planning on using grads, appropriate stepping rings to bring all your lenses to the same filter size might be a better option. One possible cofusion is that Cokin has changed the names they give the various holder sizes - I don't know if this was after you last played with them or not...

 

[Hassasin]

https://www.amazon.com/Concept-Compact-Aluminum-K234A7-FH-03/dp/B0D2HPGJCZ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

This is 100% NOT a tripod you want to consider for what you are intending it for. The max height alone is only to handle a candle, not for serious shooting with LF, even if it is Intrepid. Intrepid may be light but physically is still a boat load in a wind. You do need something you used to use, but these days Manfrotto is just another brand.

Tripod to consider - I have the next larger version (see at adjacent option in the linked page), but these are really well put together. I think it is one of the better values on the market today. They do sell under other brands too.

 

[koraks]

If looking for a new tripod for LF use I would avoid any tripod having a central column (though my Manfrotto 058B which is one of those I referred to earlier does have one that I never use) FWIW it cost £100, but it's certainly not light!

Not sure if you're referring to the 058B with the 100GBP number, but I see the 058B retail new for around $700. Maybe you referred to a second hand price, or another type of tripod of a similar design?
Either way, I stick to what I said before: you won't find a new, $100 tripod that can objectively called sufficiently stable for LF work. You may be able to find something satisfactory in the second hand market around that price point, or a new tripod that's a workable compromise depending on your requirements.

 

[Grafmatic]

It may be rare to find tripods that reach a good height without raising the central column, but they do exist. I have a couple of old heavy tripods that manage this.
If looking for a new tripod for LF use I would avoid any tripod having a central column (though my Manfrotto 058B which is one of those I referred to earlier does have one that I never use) FWIW it cost £100, but it's certainly not light!

wrt filters Cokin holders are still all over the place, but if you're not planning on using grads, appropriate stepping rings to bring all your lenses to the same filter size might be a better option. One possible cofusion is that Cokin has changed the names they give the various holder sizes - I don't know if this was after you last played with them or not...

I actually have a pretty good idea of what I need in a tripod, I’ve just been out of the market so long that I’m not familiar with what’s out there. Cost is a consideration. If I could find a used Record Giant, I’d stop right there. That one is from before the Internet though so there’s a dearth of information on it. I couldn’t even find a picture.

I had a Manfrotto / Bogen back when, but it wasn’t quite up to the Linhof one. I wouldn’t rule them out, at least a used one. One of the things that makes buying a used tripod tricky unless you’re inspecting it in person is the absence of specs most of the time. How much does yours weigh? (I had a Majestic Which I think weighed almost as much as I did… Hated that one.

One response suggested a tripod without a center column. That’s one solution, and I had one of those back in the day also- the Zone VI. It was sturdy and reasonably light, but the disadvantage was that making even a small adjustment to the elevation required adjusting all three legs, as opposed to leveling the tripod and then making small elevationadjustments with the center column.

Anything in current production should have some kind of spec on the manufacturers website. My camera won’t arrive for about another six weeks, so still have some time to work this and hoping I can get some recommendations on specific models. If I can find a Record Giant, my search is over. I don’t care about cosmetics if it is in good functional order. No luck yet though. Whatever I buy is going to come from the used market for budget reasons.

The suggestion about step rings might be a good one as the Wratten and similar filters tend to be fragile.

Thanks for all the thoughtful suggestions. There’s something out there… I feel like Rip van Winkle trying to figure out what it is though,

 

[Petrochemist]

Not sure if you're referring to the 058B with the 100GBP number, but I see the 058B retail new for around $700. Maybe you referred to a second hand price, or another type of tripod of a similar design?
Either way, I stick to what I said before: you won't find a new, $100 tripod that can objectively called sufficiently stable for LF work. You may be able to find something satisfactory in the second hand market around that price point, or a new tripod that's a workable compromise depending on your requirements.

Yes it was used, I don't see the point in buying old designs new.

 

[loccdor]

My choice for a large, sturdy, and cheap tripod was a vintage aluminum Tiltall. It's much more stable than my compact Manfrotto travel tripod. I'm able to use a 300mm f/4 Canon FD lens on it with a teleconverter and gimbal. That would be about 5 pounds with the camera. They go for a little under $100. It doesn't have all the fancy features of a newer model.

 

[Grafmatic]

This is 100% NOT a tripod you want to consider for what you are intending it for. The max height alone is only to handle a candle, not for serious shooting with LF, even if it is Intrepid. Intrepid may be light but physically is still a boat load in a wind. You do need something you used to use, but these days Manfrotto is just another brand.

Tripod to consider - I have the next larger version (see at adjacent option in the linked page), but these are really well put together. I think it is one of the better values on the market today. They do sell under other brands too.

So it's not a crap brand per se. Good to know.

I will look at the Tiltall as well. Does yours have a model number or anything on it?

Maybe weight isn't as important as I think I will probably be influenced by Brett Weston's viewpoint in his later years: "If it's more than 100 feet from the road, it's not photogenic."

 

[koraks]

I'm able to use a 300mm f/4 Canon FD lens on it with a teleconverter and gimbal. That would be about 5 pounds with the camera.

That's a different category altogether than an LF camera. Your tripod looks fine for what you use it for, but it's decidedly on the flimsy side for large format.

 

[Grafmatic]

This is 100% NOT a tripod you want to consider for what you are intending it for. The max height alone is only to handle a candle, not for serious shooting with LF, even if it is Intrepid. Intrepid may be light but physically is still a boat load in a wind. You do need something you used to use, but these days Manfrotto is just another brand.

Tripod to consider - I have the next larger version (see at adjacent option in the linked page), but these are really well put together. I think it is one of the better values on the market today. They do sell under other brands too.

This one? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7BX47VW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?pd_rd_i=B0C7BX47VW&pd_rd_w=KCsrB&content-id=amzn1.sym.386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_p=386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_r=VPTW2C552BKW34RTERP8&pd_rd_wg=q6nZ2&pd_rd_r=13bb5f37-2fad-42a2-b5d9-36bb4e2ed0db&s=photo&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1

 

[Hassasin]

This one? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7BX47VW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?pd_rd_i=B0C7BX47VW&pd_rd_w=KCsrB&content-id=amzn1.sym.386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_p=386c274b-4bfe-4421-9052-a1a56db557ab&pf_rd_r=VPTW2C552BKW34RTERP8&pd_rd_wg=q6nZ2&pd_rd_r=13bb5f37-2fad-42a2-b5d9-36bb4e2ed0db&s=photo&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1

Innorel KT 404 or KT364

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The Intrepid 4x5 is light as a feather, so your options for a tripod are quite good.
I retired my Wratten filters a few years ago, after using them for decades. Glass filters now, and a few step-up rings. All my filters with the exception of one, are 77mm. This way I can use them on my RB, too. One really only needs a few colour filters. In my kit I have a blue, green, yellow, red, and an IR 720 (I shoot a lot of Rollei IR). I also have a few ND filters. All my glass filters are Marumi, with the exception of the 720 (Urth and Zomei).
I do have a light metre app in my phone, but have only used it when my battery died in my hand held metre. Seriously, get a proper metre. I found the phone apps a pain to use, and not as accurate. Minolta Spot F's are going for reasonable prices on ebay. Or get a metre that supports both incident and reflective.
Cheers and welcome to Photrio!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Look at Induro fiberglass tripods. First fiberglass tripods are strong but lighter than the other tripods. Second, Induro tripods can use parts and accessories from the big name tripods such as Swiss Arco, Gitzo and Manfrotto/Bogen.

 

[What About Bob]

https://www.amazon.com/Concept-Compact-Aluminum-K234A7-FH-03/dp/B0D2HPGJCZ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

Welcome back, Grafmatic!

I have the ball-head version of this very tripod by K&F. Bought it last year as a spare to my old Bogen that has been serving me well since 1995. I am not an LF shooter but I can say from my own experience with the K&F that I would not put a Hasselblad on it. I personally don't feel it is stable enough, tried it and then immediately removed the Hassie from the head. At most maybe a Rolleicord but even then I am still uneasy about it. Overall the K&F tripod doesn't feel durable enough, in my opinion. I prefer my all metal Bogen that "SNAPS" securely in place when connecting the hexagon plate to the head. To me that signals "secured lock confidence", in my mind. From this experience I will be saving up for a good spare tripod.

The model shown in that provided link; I do not know how much it would differ from the ball-head version but material-wise I wouldn't feel confident, that's just me. I wish I had held off, waited and saved up more for a good spare tripod. At the time I felt sort of rushed with my purchase and having the idea that "lighter would be better" because for all of my time with using my Bogen I have been carrying a beast for the longest time and sometimes that can take the fun out of photography, especially when you have only legs and no wheels to get anywhere. Carried weight feels progressively heavier the longer you have to carry it.

I have learned that one of the things to not skimp on when it comes to photography is a tripod. I have no knowledge about carbon fiber tripods except that they are lighter than standard ones. Since you mentioned about wanting to carry light, maybe a carbon version might be the way to go. Hopefully someone with experience can chime in about those. Back then I was thinking of getting a carbon version but they were beyond my reach. A good one costs but the idea that I get is that a good one will serve someone for a long while.

 

[Grafmatic]

Maybe I should reword/adjust my query. I think I need to start a more specific thread about the tripod. I'll try to keep from proliferating too much (because I obviously have lots of questions).

 

[loccdor]

That's a different category altogether than an LF camera. Your tripod looks fine for what you use it for, but it's decidedly on the flimsy side for large format.

Could be, but I think his camera/lens combination is under 5 pounds.

 

[Hassasin]

Could be, but I think his camera/lens combination is under 5 pounds.

Camera's weight is one thing, it's overall size another, it is still a 4x5 and a sail in a wind.

 

[koraks]

Camera's weight is one thing, it's overall size another, it is still a 4x5 and a sail in a wind.

That's right, and the weight distribution / center of gravity is also different from a typical SLR setup. The Intrepid is relatively lightweight, but as soon as you mount a somewhat serious lens on it, the center of gravity shifts to quite far away from the tripod head, which makes the whole think kind of rickety.

 

[loccdor]

Makes sense!

 

[Grafmatic]

Thanks for the input. Regarding the last several posts, the Intrepid weighs 2.8lb. I weighed my 180mm Nikkor (the only piece of gear I have so far) and it came to 14.5 oz (a pound for all intents and purposes). So let’s say four pounds. Some of these carbon fiber tripods don’t weigh much more than that. So when you got the center post extended a foot and a half to get your 60 inches elevation, you have a top-heavy assembly. I see what people are saying there. That’s one reason I’m looking to use the center post minimally What makes the decision hard is that I don’t have, say, a tilt all in front of me, all I would have to do is set a given tripod up, and I would be able to tell you whether it would work or not. Data on older tripods is hard to come by. That’s one reason I’m still holding out. Hope that I can find a used version of my Linhof tripod. Thanks again everybody. This is a great forum.