Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

[Pieter12]

Also, make sure your film back is snug in the keepers.

I'm sure if the back is not snug there would be an apparent light leak as well.

 

[Dave Krueger]

Did you download the 'extra' manual that explains one way to set the focus offset? In the description he is using a digital back and trial-and-error. In fact the "-" and "+" adjustment is downplayed. Just adjust until it is right. Film will be the same method, it will take longer, because the film has to be processed.
Also, make sure your film back is snug in the keepers.

Oops. Sorry. I forgot to answer this. Yes, if you're referring to Geoff's "primer". In fact, I couldn't find anything about offsets in the regular user manual available from rolleiflex.us, so the "extra" manual is crucial.

 

[Dave Krueger]

Also, make sure your film back is snug in the keepers.

I did look at the film back to see if I might not have had it securely latched or had the insert installed wrong and I couldn't see any way to screw that up.

I should be getting a couple more lenses tomorrow, so I will try them and see if they have the same offset issue. That should help me identify whether the problem is with the body or the lens.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I shot the pictures of the test setup I laid out on the floor, but left two frames for tomorrow so I can check the focus at infinity. If they accounted for that in their offset adjustment design, I should still be able to get infinity focus wide open. And just for the hell of it, I did a shot of the floor setup from the same position using my old Rolleiflex 3.5E wide open. The floor setup isn't designed for precision, though. I'm pretty sure the Hy6 offset adjustment over the range of -30 to +30 will move the focus by a number of feet even at a distance of only 12 feet.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I'm sure if the back is not snug there would be an apparent light leak as well.

I didn't get light leaks, but I noticed tonight that one side latches a little more easily than the other.

 

[Dave Krueger]

Since I know, deep down inside, that you guys never want to see this thread end, I have a couple more questions.

I got the 40mm f3.5 manual focus lens today and noticed that the Focus value under STATUS II stays at Infinity and the Target value bounces back and forth between 0.0 and Infinity. I'm assuming that's because manual focus lenses don't supply distance datato the camera body. Is that correct?

Also, the 40mm has a little window just to the rear of the aperture ring with a white pointer in it that points at 3.5 all the time. Does anyone know what that is for and what makes it move?

Just kidding about never wanting to see this end. You guys have been amazing and I appreciate every bot of info you've posted.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I got the autofocus 50mm lens today and it seems to be acting just like the 80mm lens. It requires the same high offset in order for the image on the focusing screen to be in focus after autofocusing. I have not shot any film through it yet, though. That makes it look like the this issue is something related to the body and not the lens.

I also haven't developed yesterday's film yet. Just juggling to much stuff at one time these days.

 

[Dave Krueger]

Here's another little factoid: My RB-67 Pro S with the foggy 127mm lens, film back, and metering prism weighs 3156 g. The Hy6 with 80mm, film back, and 45 degree prism weighs 2074 g. That's 1082 grams less. That's a big difference to someone who is getting older, grayer, shorter, and weaker with every passing day.

 

[ic-racer]

One more thing on the focus screen, to show how it can not be fully snapped in to position after a screen change:

 

[ic-racer]

S
Also, the 40mm has a little window just to the rear of the aperture ring with a white pointer in it that points at 3.5 all the time. Does anyone know what that is for and what makes it move?

I hope it does not point to f3.5 all the time. Non-movement of that pointer is the problem with my old 6008i that broke this month!

 

[Pieter12]

Also, the 40mm has a little window just to the rear of the aperture ring with a white pointer in it that points at 3.5 all the time. Does anyone know what that is for and what makes it move?

The pointer should move to the selected aperture when you press the preview button and when you make the actual exposure.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I hope it does not point to f3.5 all the time. Non-movement of that pointer is the problem with my old 6008i that broke this month!

Ah-ha! It does move. Thanks. I've never seen that on a lens before.

 

[Dave Krueger]

One more thing on the focus screen, to show how it can not be fully snapped in to position after a screen change:

I checked out the screen again. It doesn't really seem to hang up like that, but I'll pay attention to it next time I have to lift it up.

 

[ic-racer]

I hope you tests don't show that the focus screen and film plane are that far off. If so maybe the camera needs to go back. One other thing that can cause a difference like that is the mirror down stop, maybe some flocking or foreign material is holding it up slightly.

 

[Dave Krueger]

The result of the film test using the arrangement I set up on the floor was not good. The black on white grid focusing target target was 12 feet away from the camera with white lines on the floor every six inches from 3.5 feet behind the target to 4 feet in front of the target. All exposures were with the lens wide open and the focusing area set to small. After each change in offset, I defocused manually, activated autofocus, and made sure the focusing had stopped before releasing the auto focus button. The camera was set to single focus, The offset values were -30, -20, -10, 0, +10, +20, +30. The results were that the focusing started at about 4 feet in front of the target (at -30 offset), moved incrementally, and ended up focusing 1 foot in front of the target (at +30 offset). At no time throughout the entire range of offsets, was the 12 foot target ever in good focus. Increasing the offset to +33 from +30 had only a negligible effect.

Furthermore, I shot the last two frames outdoors with the camera on a tripod, aiming down the street, with the lens wide open (using a red filter and 100 speed film). I manually adjusted the mechanical focusing ring up against the hard infinity stop. No autofocusing was done. The negatives show that the camera focused at a point about 50-75 feet away, with everything before and after out of focus. The only way you could get a sharp image at infinity with this camera is to stop the lens down. A lot.

There is nothing loose in the camera and no signs of any shock or other damage. It looks completely fine. I have not identified anything that I have done wrong that could account for this very repeatable failure, so I am convinced that the camera needs to go back to the factory for repair. It's very disappointing to have to send a brand new camera in for repair within days of receiving it. I think the camera is a great camera, but only if it works as designed. This one doesn't. Not even close.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I hope you tests don't show that the focus screen and film plane are that far off. If so maybe the camera needs to go back. One other thing that can cause a difference like that is the mirror down stop, maybe some flocking or foreign material is holding it up slightly.

That's an interesting theory, but I think the mirror only affects the image on the focusing screen. If the focus sensor is behind the mirror the mirror angle shouldn't have an effect because the sensor is acting on light passing through the mirror, not reflecting off of it, in which case the auto focus would still be accurate but the viewing screen image would be out of focus. That's just a guess. We're getting into territory I don't know much about. Hell, all of this is new to me.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I hope you tests don't show that the focus screen and film plane are that far off.

You're right that this doesn't seem possible. A broken camera is one thing, but a completely functional camera that can't even mechanically focus at infinity? And, by the way, the split image was in agreement that the lens was not able to focus on infinity. It seems like anything that far off would have to be apparent. Too bad I don't have another camera to compare it with. I'll take lots of pictures of it before I send it in and compare them with the camera after it's been fixed. LOL!

 

[ic-racer]

If the screen and the film agree, then the lens may not be collimated correctly for infinity. But that does not explain the issue focusing at 12 ft. That test suggests the focus screen and film don't agree.

Maybe you have done enough testing to send it back at this point. Before 3 weeks you, theoretically can get a new one, rather than have this one repaired.

DW-Photo provides a two year warrantee on their cameras and lenses, and they cover new purchases with an exchange program. In the unlikely event a problem is discovered on purchase, or up to three weeks afterwards, DW will exchange that item with a new one instead of repairing it.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I hope it does not point to f3.5 all the time. Non-movement of that pointer is the problem with my old 6008i that broke this month!

How old was it? Are you going to try and get it fixed? I have the feeling that the 40 will be my favorite lens.

 

[ic-racer]

How old was it? Are you going to try and get it fixed? I have the feeling that the 40 will be my favorite lens.

The 6008i with faulty aperture control is around 1991. I got a newer one (1998) from Pieter12 last week. Personally I don't think it is repairable without a new PC board, so I don't know if it is worth the trouble to ship it anywhere. It could be used as a portrait camera as it always exposes with the lens wide open.

 

[ic-racer]

I upgraded my old monster Distagon 40 for the newer Super Angulon 40 about a year ago. The size difference is mind boggling.

 

[GG12]

The 40 is a wonderful lens at f 3.5 too! Small and delightful. I sold mine too hastily when I found it was a wee bit soft on the edges with a digital back (40x54, it was fine with the earlier smaller ones), in a huff. Probably not the smartest move.... the only Schneider lens that did that. Certainly livable.

 

[Pieter12]

If the screen and the film agree, then the lens may not be collimated correctly for infinity. But that does not explain the issue focusing at 12 ft. That test suggests the focus screen and film don't agree.

Maybe you have done enough testing to send it back at this point. Before 3 weeks you, theoretically can get a new one, rather than have this one repaired.

I have found Eric to be more responsive than the factory in Germany. Perhaps because of the time difference, or that Eric is the US distributor and sold the camera originally?

 

[GG12]

Factories are often closed-mouthed about errors or complications; German ones even moreso. They are worried about being misquoted or misunderstood, of people taking their comments out of context, and thus remain quiet about issues. There was a story back many years ago of a new Leica with a problem, continually denied by the factory. Once it was shipped back to them, and they had their hands on the camera, they made good and immediately sent a new camera. And that is typical: they will stand behind their work and correct it, but the interface can be a bit.... difficult.
Eric has always been upfront about issues or difficulties, and is easy to deal with. Proves his worth as a good dealer for these cameras.
Personally, I've had no issues with the factory, they've been very responsive and quick, but then again, the relationship goes over many years.

 

[Arthurwg]

All this is well and good. But I'd like to see some photos from such an exceptional camera.