Showcase for Your HCWP's

[nmp]

Learn something new every day! I knew about potassium oxalate but I didn't know about this. Thanks, something new to try sometime!

I would think sulfite works like an alkali - as in bleaching, although more gently than sodium carbonate etc. Sodium/potassium oxalate, citrate etc actually dissolve ferric ferrocyanide so that fading is irreversible.

:Niranjan.

 

[NedL]

Thanks Niranjan, that makes sense. A mild alkali "bleach" rather than an actual "reducer". I've wondered if a very weak potassium oxalate solution might add "pop" like farmer's reducer can for a silver print. Maybe make highlights brighter, and potentially help with the common problem in toning cyanotypes that there seems to be prussian white or something else in all highlight areas, and not just paper + small amounts of PB... that often turns pink or otherwise fails to stay white through the toning process.... another thing on a long list of things to try!

 

[KYsailor]

+1… The balcony print is revelatory for me…I”ve always associated cyanotypes with Pictorialism, but this one almost feels like a photogravure.

Otherwise, much appreciation for Andrew’s work as well—very curious how he will frame these…I’m assuming a float mount on a mat board that is “colder” than the image/paper?

I just happen to have run this balcony image as a photogravure, for comparison ..... although it did make an interesting cyanotype before toning/bleaching.

 

[fgorga]

I am working on an edition of twelve cyanotypes for a group portfolio... one print from each of twelve people; each contributor receives a copy of the complete folio.

In working on this project, I am trying to decide if I want to include the untoned cyanotype of the image I have chosen (which I like well enough) or whether to tone the prints. Toward this end, I have done some testing with the results shown below.

The prints were toned with the indicated materials using the method described by Annette Golaz (see: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781003093169/cyanotype-toning-annette-golaz).

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

 

[koraks]

this balcony image as a photogravure

Gorgeous! That scene works so incredibly well in this process. Very well done.

Comments appreciated.

I agree it's a lovely scene in each of the tonings you've shown, but I remain partial to what you're achieving with the Sumac. Also in this case. For me, that one is really a leap ahead of the pack.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Frank, all prints look great to me. If I were to pick only one, I would vote for Sumac with Wattle being a close second.

 

[MattKing]

My choice would be the Wattle version, because of the shadows.

 

[KYsailor]

I am working on an edition of twelve cyanotypes for a group portfolio... one print from each of twelve people; each contributor receives a copy of the complete folio.

In working on this project, I am trying to decide if I want to include the untoned cyanotype of the image I have chosen (which I like well enough) or whether to tone the prints. Toward this end, I have done some testing with the results shown below.

The prints were toned with the indicated materials using the method described by Annette Golaz (see: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781003093169/cyanotype-toning-annette-golaz).

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

View attachment 394867

I like the wattle version - the best blacks are in the Sumac, however I do not care for the slight purplish tinge ( at least on my monitor) the wattle blacks are almost as good I find the overall tint most pleasing.



Dave Najewicz

 

[AndrewBurns]

Nice Andrew. You can bleach cyanotypes with sulfite if you want to make them lighter.

You guys have me jonesing to make some alt prints but sadly my printer took a bow last year. I really need to fix it or replace it. Just have to get around to it.

Yeah I've been avoiding bleaching these prints because I don't like the loss of shadow density I seem to get. Once I get more of the fluid paper in I'll have a good comparison (unfortunately it's out of stock in the entire country so I had to order it from overseas).

Andrew, these are all absolute beautiful.

Thanks!

Really nice work - I was so inspired, yesterday I took a few of my (less than perfect) cyano's and decided to do some toning - had some tannic acid powder - made up a 10% solution and tried brush toning..... direct toning did not seem to much of anything, so I bleached (washing soda) them a bit and retoned and got some results ( see below ) I have come to the conclusion it's all about the paper. The Arches Aquarelle WC stained pretty badly - won't eve show the results. The flowers are on Canson Bristol XL - I think I left them in the bleach too long - the print looks grainy now. The balcony image was on Sumi-e and really stained badly as you can see. While I did get some backs the midtones have that purplish cast, which I do not care for... will have to give that Fluid 300 HP a try....but thanks for getting me started on toning cyano's again - with the right paper and toning agent the results can be really wonderful as you have shown.

Dave

Nice, as people have mentioned I like how sharp the balcony print is. People don't tend to associate cyanotype with fine details in prints but there's no reason you can't get that with an appropriate starting image and a good smooth paper.

+1… The balcony print is revelatory for me…I”ve always associated cyanotypes with Pictorialism, but this one almost feels like a photogravure.

Otherwise, much appreciation for Andrew’s work as well—very curious how he will frame these…I’m assuming a float mount on a mat board that is “colder” than the image/paper?

To be honest I don't have a plan for these prints. I've been churning out what is starting to feel like a cohesive body of prints in A4/8x10 size which I'm considering seeing if I can get into a local gallery as an exhibition. I've sent a few to some other photographers I know as part of a print swap. However if I were to actually show them I'd want to print them at least twice their current size and I don't have a way of doing that yet.

As far as framing goes again I'd probably have to experiment. I have a few early prints framed in a very basic way in my stairwell and they look nice, but my concern particularly with very dark prints is that any kind of glazing will result in too much reflection which could spoil the effect. I'm thinking of ways of mounting/framing without glass and maybe trying to protect the print with some kind of wax-based varnish.

I am working on an edition of twelve cyanotypes for a group portfolio... one print from each of twelve people; each contributor receives a copy of the complete folio.

In working on this project, I am trying to decide if I want to include the untoned cyanotype of the image I have chosen (which I like well enough) or whether to tone the prints. Toward this end, I have done some testing with the results shown below.

The prints were toned with the indicated materials using the method described by Annette Golaz (see: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9781003093169/cyanotype-toning-annette-golaz).

Comments appreciated. Thanks.

View attachment 394867

Have you ever experimented with either combining toning agents or multiple toning sessions? I'd be interested to see what wattle and sumac toning together looks like, the combination of the two might result in a more neutral tone overall.

 

[nmp]

Thanks Niranjan, that makes sense. A mild alkali "bleach" rather than an actual "reducer". I've wondered if a very weak potassium oxalate solution might add "pop" like farmer's reducer can for a silver print. Maybe make highlights brighter, and potentially help with the common problem in toning cyanotypes that there seems to be prussian white or something else in all highlight areas, and not just paper + small amounts of PB... that often turns pink or otherwise fails to stay white through the toning process.... another thing on a long list of things to try!

Yeah, I worked on this possibility once upon a time. The problem was, as I recall, unlike Farmer's which attacks the lighter parts first leaving the denser relatively less touched, potassium oxalate also reduced the Dmax while it lightened up the highlight areas. So the "pop" was not as impressive. Print just lost density everywhere more or less - like proportional reducers.

:Niranjan.

 

[NedL]

My choice would be the Wattle version, because of the shadows.

Interesting. I had the same thought! I like the color too.

 

[NedL]

Yeah, I worked on this possibility once upon a time. The problem was, as I recall, unlike Farmer's which attacks the lighter parts first leaving the denser relatively less touched, potassium oxalate also reduced the Dmax while it lightened up the highlight areas. So the "pop" was not as impressive. Print just lost density everywhere more or less - like proportional reducers.

:Niranjan.

In that case I will put off buying potassium oxalate. Probably could be applied selectively with a paintbrush....

 

[fgorga]

Gorgeous! That scene works so incredibly well in this process. Very well done.

I agree it's a lovely scene in each of the tonings you've shown, but I remain partial to what you're achieving with the Sumac. Also in this case. For me, that one is really a leap ahead of the pack.

Frank, all prints look great to me. If I were to pick only one, I would vote for Sumac with Wattle being a close second.

@koraks and @Raghu Kuvempunagar

Thanks for your comments. The sumac toning is interesting... folks either really like it or hate it. Personally, I like it for many subjects.

My choice would be the Wattle version, because of the shadows.

Thanks for the comment. I agree the shadows in the barley grass are too light. But I do like the color.

This is the first print I have toned with barley grass so I had no clue what to expect. It clearly bleaches the cyanotype some. Next time I try it, I'll over expose the cyanotype and see what happens.

I like the wattle version - the best blacks are in the Sumac, however I do not care for the slight purplish tinge ( at least on my monitor) the wattle blacks are almost as good I find the overall tint most pleasing.

Thank for your comment. The sumac toned prints are definitely a purple-brown tone. As I said above, some folks really like it others don't.

Yeah I've been avoiding bleaching these prints because I don't like the loss of shadow density I seem to get.

Regarding bleaching/toning... you don't say what you have used as a bleach. Most folks use sodium carbonate (washing soda) which is probably the strongest (most alkaline) choice.

By switching to a weaker base you will get different effects both in terms of the density and the color. Other choices of base include ammonia and bicarbonate. See this post for some examples: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/on-the-toning-of-cyanotypes.175185/

Most recently, following Annette Golaz' method, I have been using calcium carbonate (chalk) in the same solution as the toning agent. Thus 'bleaching' and toning occur simultaneously.

Calcium carbonate is quite insoluble in water and thus this limits how high the pH can go, so the pH is much lower that when using sodium carbonate.

I hope that I am not offending anyone by repeatedly mentions Golaz' toning method but it is really a new and different from the traditional methods of toning cyanotypes. It is, in my humble opinion, well worth considering if you like cyanotypes.

Nice, as people have mentioned I like how sharp the balcony print is. People don't tend to associate cyanotype with fine details in prints but there's no reason you can't get that with an appropriate starting image and a good smooth paper.

Yep! 'Good smooth paper' is the key. Cold press watercolor paper (which many folks start with) is just fine for photograms. However, a nice smooth paper works much better for photographs.

Most folks stick with watercolor papers for cyanotype and there is nothing wrong with a smooth hot press watercolor paper. However, there are many other nice smooth papers (mostly for printmaking) that also work for cyanotype (and other alt processes) that are worth exploring. I think that @koraks is one the same page (pardon the pun) as me on this subject.

Two papers I particularly like are Stonehenge (which is available in lots of colors but I am partial to the 'warm' variety) and Lenox 100. Both are 100% cotton, about 250 gsm and relatively inexpensive. They are distributed by Legion Paper (a US company) so I don't know about the availability in other parts of the world.

Have you ever experimented with either combining toning agents or multiple toning sessions? I'd be interested to see what wattle and sumac toning together looks like, the combination of the two might result in a more neutral tone overall.

I'll be honest... I've not even though of doing this! It is a great idea though. I'll try some experiments when I get the time and you will be the first to see the results. Thanks for the idea.

Interesting. I had the same thought! I like the color too.

Thanks for the comment.

 

[koraks]

I think that @koraks is one the same page (pardon the pun) as me on this subject.

Certainly, at least to an extent. Personally, for alt. prints I prefer papers with a subtle, fine texture. I've also printed on smooth, hot-pressed papers before. While the detail rendering on those papers tends to be excellent, I find the surface a little too 'technical'. The sweet spot, for me, are printmaking/etching papers with a fine texture and a little tooth, and preferably pure white, with no optical brightening agents. It's of course all very personal, and one of the great things about alt. processes is that there's so much freedom of choice!

 

[AndrewBurns]

Regarding bleaching/toning... you don't say what you have used as a bleach. Most folks use sodium carbonate (washing soda) which is probably the strongest (most alkaline) choice.

By switching to a weaker base you will get different effects both in terms of the density and the color. Other choices of base include ammonia and bicarbonate. See this post for some examples: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/on-the-toning-of-cyanotypes.175185/

Most recently, following Annette Golaz' method, I have been using calcium carbonate (chalk) in the same solution as the toning agent. Thus 'bleaching' and toning occur simultaneously.

Calcium carbonate is quite insoluble in water and thus this limits how high the pH can go, so the pH is much lower that when using sodium carbonate.

I hope that I am not offending anyone by repeatedly mentions Golaz' toning method but it is really a new and different from the traditional methods of toning cyanotypes. It is, in my humble opinion, well worth considering if you like cyanotypes.

I'm not currently bleaching at all, just straight into toning the print. I tone twice for 10 minutes each time and the tone seems to get stronger which each cycle of application and wash. I believe my tap water is acting as an extremely weak bleaching agent due to its chlorine content as soaking the prints in water makes a notable change to the tone of the initial cyanotype (changes from a darker blue to a much lighter cyan colour after a minute or two in tap water) but not really any change to overall density.

 

[KYsailor]

Printed some new photogravures over the weekend - using a new three part QTR profile Clay Harmon has developed with Richard Boutwell (B&W Mastery) it seems to work pretty well. I photographed these with my phone and downsized - seem to have some artifacts in the jpgs but overall I really like them.

As an aside to Andrew - I just had some fluid HP delivered today - going to make another pass at toned cyano's - I really liked yourresults, hopefully using this paper/process will help.

Dave

 

[AndrewBurns]

Printed some new photogravures over the weekend - using a new three part QTR profile Clay Harmon has developed with Richard Boutwell (B&W Mastery) it seems to work pretty well. I photographed these with my phone and downsized - seem to have some artifacts in the jpgs but overall I really like them.

As an aside to Andrew - I just had some fluid HP delivered today - going to make another pass at toned cyano's - I really liked yourresults, hopefully using this paper/process will help.

Dave


View attachment 395486 View attachment 395487

Very nice, do you have any more information about your process? I think I'd like to try photo/photopolymer gravure sometime but there seems to be 100 different ways to do the process and I know nothing about it...

I've been waiting for 2 weeks for more paper now, had to order it from the UK because it's out of stock everywhere in NZ (in the sizes I want at least).

 

[koraks]

Printed some new photogravures over the weekend

Very beautiful; I particularly like the hue in the cyan/blue-toned seascape.

 

[KYsailor]

Very beautiful; I particularly like the hue in the cyan/blue-toned seascape.

Thanks, I have started to mix some other colors in with the black ink, in this case a prussian blue, and I like the results.

 

[KYsailor]

Very nice, do you have any more information about your process? I think I'd like to try photo/photopolymer gravure sometime but there seems to be 100 different ways to do the process and I know nothing about it...

I've been waiting for 2 weeks for more paper now, had to order it from the UK because it's out of stock everywhere in NZ (in the sizes I want at least).

Andrew - Photogravure seems to have undergone several advances in the last few years and I can understand why it appears there are so many processes. I took a course from Clay Harmon ( Asheville, NC) who runs a small studio and teaches the DTP ( Direct to Plate) method. Essentially it is using a photopolymer coated thin steel plate, and directly printing on it using an Epson printer. The photopolymer plate is a "positive" process and once it is printed with the right curve/RIP profile, it is then exposed to UV ( must be 365nm, the 380-400 nm doesn't work). It is developed in tap water with a soft brush to create the relief on the plate. Then it is back in the UV to harden the plate. Printing is done by inking the pate and "wiping" it with several stages of cloths and/or newspaper. The plate is then placed on the bed of a press ( usually used for intaglio or etchings) covered with dampened paper and the usual "blankets"

Here is a link to clay's pages about the process https://clayharmonblog.com/posts/dtp-quick-start. I believe it can be done with a ""positive" on inkjet film as well but requiring an messotint screen - I really don't know much about that, it was an earlier process before DTP. Intaglio presses are pretty big and expensive; however in the US there are a lot of printmaking studios around in larger cities - I belong to one for a monthly fee. The plates are relatively expensive they cost me abou $17 for an 8x10, I purchase mine from Clay at "mountain Intaglio"... Jon Cone ( inkjet mall) in Vermont also runs courses and sells materials - he has some good videos as well https://shop.inkjetmall.com/DTP-ZOOM.html#attr=. Hope that helps

Dave

 

[koraks]

Thanks, I have started to mix some other colors in with the black ink, in this case a prussian blue, and I like the results.

Yes, I recognize it; in the brief period I did photopolymer that was a combination I also very much liked!