Showcase for Your HCWP's

[KYsailor]

One more classic cyanotype toned with Sumac extract on Canson XL Watercolor 300 gsm paper:

View attachment 372165

Barn Door. Frederick ,MD.

Thought the rust and faded paint would look better on a brown print.

Might be the last one for a while (hopefully not never) before I move to my new place and figure out how to set my work flow all over again.

:Niranjan.

Niranjan,

lovely print - I am intrigued with the sumac toning. I have experimented with other plant based toners when I first became interested in cyanotypes, but dropped it as I moved on to other processes. I may give this a try again - I see the sumac extract is commercially available so somewhat easy to obtain. I have used that paper for cyano in the past and had great results. Good luck on you move and setting up a new workflow. Again a really nice print


Dave

 

[nmp]

Niranjan,

lovely print - I am intrigued with the sumac toning. I have experimented with other plant based toners when I first became interested in cyanotypes, but dropped it as I moved on to other processes. I may give this a try again - I see the sumac extract is commercially available so somewhat easy to obtain. I have used that paper for cyano in the past and had great results. Good luck on you move and setting up a new workflow. Again a really nice print


Dave

Thanks Dave.

I tried a number of alternative tannins and found this one to give the best characteristics in terms of most toning (retaining Dmax) with least staining. Close second were oak gall extract, tara extract, and ACS grade tanninc acid which all gave much better results than the usual suspects like coffee, tea, etc. This print was treated for 10 min in 1% toner after bleaching a freshly made print without drying in between.

I bought it from an on-line shop not too far from you (Roanoke, VA):

Natural Dyes - Sumac Gallnut Extract

Natural Dyes - Sumac Gallnut Extract Sumac Gallnut Extract Sumac Gallnut is a natural extract prepared from Rhus semialata Murr Any fiber can be dyed with Sumac gallnuts. It is used to increase light-fastness. Sumac Gallnut can be used to create dark shades with madder or indigo on wool and silk

www.theyarntree.com

A bit pricey, but I like the results - particularly the color. I used only 1g per sheet (6"x6") to make 100 ml solution that was used one-shot.

:Niranjan.

P.S. Earlier I made an error in answering a question from @koraks, I think I said it was extract from the bark of Sumac tree. I guess when I bought some I ended up, without knowing the difference, ordering extract from gallnuts of Sumac tree instead.

 

[koraks]

P.S. Earlier I made an error in answering a question from @koraks, I think I said it was extract from the bark of Sumac tree. I guess when I bought some I ended up, without knowing the difference, ordering extract from gallnuts of Sumac tree instead.

Ah, thanks; I was wondering about this. I'm familiar with the seasoning sumac, which I think is the dried fruit of the 'sumac' tree. I'm not a botanist, but I think there's quite a few rather different trees or shrubs out there that are all referred to as 'sumac'. The sumac that's used for culinary purposes has a slightly acidic, tangy taste, but it's a far cry from the levels of tannic acid you find in stuff like acorns, oak galls etc. I doubt the culinary sumac will do much in the way of toning cyanotypes.

Coincidentally, I also did experiments (years ago) with oak-based concoctions for cyanotype toning. I found that boiling the de-husked acorns and then reducing the liquid yielded a very good toner concentrate that indeed gave pleasing magenta/purple tones with relatively little staining. I was looking for something brown/black at the time, so I didn't do much with it apart from a couple of tests. Maybe I should revisit this when autumn comes.

 

[nmp]

Ah, thanks; I was wondering about this. I'm familiar with the seasoning sumac, which I think is the dried fruit of the 'sumac' tree. I'm not a botanist, but I think there's quite a few rather different trees or shrubs out there that are all referred to as 'sumac'. The sumac that's used for culinary purposes has a slightly acidic, tangy taste, but it's a far cry from the levels of tannic acid you find in stuff like acorns, oak galls etc. I doubt the culinary sumac will do much in the way of toning cyanotypes.

Coincidentally, I also did experiments (years ago) with oak-based concoctions for cyanotype toning. I found that boiling the de-husked acorns and then reducing the liquid yielded a very good toner concentrate that indeed gave pleasing magenta/purple tones with relatively little staining. I was looking for something brown/black at the time, so I didn't do much with it apart from a couple of tests. Maybe I should revisit this when autumn comes.

I did the same thing some time ago since I also have an ample supply of oak acorns right outside my building that rain down in the fall and hurt you if you are not watching. The problems with those I found was when you boil them after taking the outer shell out, the liquid also contains some other components like fats, carbs and proteins, which by the way they are full of actually making them quite nutritious if you remove the tannins. Native Americans used to do that by putting them in a bag and hanging them in flowing water. Apparently, squirrels do not dig and bury them only to store them for the winter but also to allow the tannins to be absorbed by the moisture from the soil, making them eminently more palatable. Smart, those squirrels! Anyway, these other ingredients tended to mess up the paper. I am sure there is probably way to purify the concoction but that looked like too much work so I abandoned the effort.

:Niranjan.

 

[koraks]

I mostly remember a very heavy, hairy mat of mold growing on top of the concoction when I dug up the jar a few weeks after having done my initial testing. Something very nutritious must have been in there for sure.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Supplemental and off topic, mainly.

If you store the tannin concoction in a jar with a handful of rusty nails for a few months until it turns black, and add a drop of photoflow, you have made a very nice iron-gall permanent fountain pen ink. Don't spill any on your clothes, it really is permanent. Don't use a fountain pen, you say - hrmph, well what are you doing using a film camera, eh?

If you do cyanotypes you can skip the aging step by adding Ferric Amonium Citrate instead of the rusty nails.

And you can make an ink using pyro, catechol or other developing agents and FAC. Some variants are clear until in contact with paper, at which time they turn black. So that you could see what you were writing these inks were often mixed with blue pigment/dye. Hence the term "blue-black ink" - goes on blue, turns black as it dries.

Tanins and their relatives are made by plants to repel (well, kill) insects and to 'sterilize' any wounds. Catechols are why apples and bananas turn brown.

Interestingly, most plant based 'drugs of abuse' are insecticides: opium, cocaine, THC, lysergic acid (aka 'sleepy grass', ergot/rye - same fungus family infecting both) ...

Insects that feast on coca leaves get so jittery they can't hold on and fall to the ground. Horses that eat 'sleepy grass' stand around immobile, staring into space for a day or two - and never touch sleepy grass again.

 

[maverickaesthetics]

Since we're talking about toning cyanotypes, I'm feeling like in semi-familiar terrain... As mentioned by @nmp above, a lot of the toners stain the paper quite substantially. But sometimes, that's the compromise you have to make.
In terms of turning a cyanotype to a fairly neutral black and white print (without excessive staining), the best thing that I have found was an infusion of young-ish birch leaves. Virtually no stain and beautiful grey tones. But, of course, we can get similar tones with a number of silver processes, too. As for the sumac-toned print, I think it's gorgeous as it is. I'm not sure what and how much a multi-colour print would bring to the table.
One thing that I've done a bit of is to combine (toned) kallitypes with straight cyanotypes. They combine very nicely (you have to print the kallitype first and fullly tone it, otherwise it will bleach from the application of the cyanotype chemicals). A different kind of duo-tone (that looks more like an extension of a monochrome print).

 

[koraks]

I'm not sure what and how much a multi-colour print would bring to the table.

To clarify, I wasn't talking about that particular print; I was musing about the usefulness of sumac toner for the magenta layer of a tricolor cyanotype because of the apparently low staining.

Thanks for the suggestion about the birch leaves; I might give that a go!

 

[maverickaesthetics]

I was musing about the usefulness of sumac toner for the magenta layer of a tricolor cyanotype because of the apparently low staining.

Ok, I get it. However, it appears quite 'brown'. TBH, madder root is also far from a pure magenta, but it's much closer than the colour in this print. a madder-toned print looks a bit bluer than magenta, more in the lilac direction, but more 'red' than the sumac in this print. But I'm keen to find other magenta alternatives that don't stain so much.

 

[nmp]

Ok, I get it. However, it appears quite 'brown'. TBH, madder root is also far from a pure magenta, but it's much closer than the colour in this print. a madder-toned print looks a bit bluer than magenta, more in the lilac direction, but more 'red' than the sumac in this print. But I'm keen to find other magenta alternatives that don't stain so much.

If you print thio-cuprotype over cyanotype, you can get megenta-ish color:

https://groups.io/g/altphotolist/message/7303

Probably will need to play around with cyano and cupro densities to get a correct hue.

:Niranjan.

 

[KYsailor]

Since we're talking about toning cyanotypes, I'm feeling like in semi-familiar terrain... As mentioned by @nmp above, a lot of the toners stain the paper quite substantially. But sometimes, that's the compromise you have to make.
In terms of turning a cyanotype to a fairly neutral black and white print (without excessive staining), the best thing that I have found was an infusion of young-ish birch leaves. Virtually no stain and beautiful grey tones. But, of course, we can get similar tones with a number of silver processes, too. As for the sumac-toned print, I think it's gorgeous as it is. I'm not sure what and how much a multi-colour print would bring to the table.
One thing that I've done a bit of is to combine (toned) kallitypes with straight cyanotypes. They combine very nicely (you have to print the kallitype first and fullly tone it, otherwise it will bleach from the application of the cyanotype chemicals). A different kind of duo-tone (that looks more like an extension of a monochrome print).

Thanks so much for this information, as I mentioned I have experimented with the usual cyano toning agents, coffee, espresso, tea, wine tannin and even sweet potato skins with only so-so success. As you noted, staining of the light tones was a problem. However as I am typing this, I am looking out my window at the large white birch tree just outside, I realized I have another option. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dave

 

[nmp]

Thanks so much for this information, as I mentioned I have experimented with the usual cyano toning agents, coffee, espresso, tea, wine tannin and even sweet potato skins with only so-so success. As you noted, staining of the light tones was a problem. However as I am typing this, I am looking out my window at the large white birch tree just outside, I realized I have another option. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dave

Yeah, birch leaves sound intriguing. Have a large number of birch trees in the park I go to every day for a walk. That would be free too. I am assuming @maverickaesthetics is talking about un-bleached cyanotype. Mine is after full bleaching, by the way. I am biased towards warm prints so I did not try to tone an unbleached (or partially bleached) print to get a more neutral tone.

:Niranjan.

 

[maverickaesthetics]

However as I am typing this, I am looking out my window at the large white birch tree just outside, I realized I have another option. Thanks for the suggestion

Yeah, birch leaves sound intriguing. Have a large number of birch trees in the park I go to every day for a walk. That would be free too. I am assuming @maverickaesthetics is talking about un-bleached cyanotype. Mine is after full bleaching, by the way. I am biased towards warm prints so I did not try to tone an unbleached (or partially bleached) print to get a more neutral tone.

To not fully hijack this thread with cyanotype toning, I've started a new thread on the subject. Niranjan, you are right, I personally am using unbleached prints. But I've posted an example of a bleached print toned with birch leaves in the first post of the new thread as well. If you bleach your cyanotype first, the resulting print after toning is a warmish brown.

 

[maverickaesthetics]

I like to combine cyanotype with other processes. This one I printed a couple of years ago or so. Cyanotype over palladium. One of my all-time favourite prints.


Minimalism I - Birdling's Flat

 

[koraks]

One of my all-time favourite prints.

Easy to see why. It's gorgeous.

 

[nmp]

I like to combine cyanotype with other processes. This one I printed a couple of years ago or so. Cyanotype over palladium. One of my all-time favourite prints.


Minimalism I - Birdling's Flat

View attachment 372470

Now if you make a giant print of this and change your name to Gursky, you can sell it for $5M.

:Niranjan.

Edit: Just in case, I meant it as a complement....I like the image/print very much!

 

[maverickaesthetics]

Now if you make a giant print of this and change your name to Gursky, you can sell it for $5M.

:Niranjan.

Edit: Just in case, I meant it as a complement....I like the image/print very much!

I know. I wasn't aware of his image at the time I made this image and print, but a certain similarity has been pointed out to me before. I had to look it up.
BTW, taken as a compliment. I know for myself that I didn't try to "plagiarise" Gursky's image, so I can only take it for a compliment ;-)

 

[NedL]

Minimalism I - Birdling's Flat...

That is excellent.

 

[AndrewBurns]

A cyanotype contact print using a transparent LCD screen in-place of a traditional negative (although the original image was shot on 4x5):

 

[KYsailor]

Andrew,

This is very interesting - can you give some details on the type and resolution of the LCD and the UV source. Really fascinating idea for alt photo processes.

Dave

 

[fgorga]

Andrew,

This is very interesting - can you give some details on the type and resolution of the LCD and the UV source. Really fascinating idea for alt photo processes.

Dave

Andrew,

I, too, am very interested in the details of your 'machine'.

I've had passing thoughts about a similar device, mainly while tossing around ideas with a young fellow who was building a UV enlarger. However, I have never proceeded past thought experiments.

Regards,

--- Frank

 

[AndrewBurns]

I've probably done enough work now that I should make a separate thread about it, so I will and post a link when I do rather than cluttering up this thread.

 

[MattKing]

I've probably done enough work now that I should make a separate thread about it, so I will and post a link when I do rather than cluttering up this thread.

Good idea - please include a link to that thread here.

 

[AndrewBurns]

Ok here's the thread I made covering my LCD screen process:

Using an LCD screen as a 'digital negative' in alt-process contact prints

Earlier this year I attempted to use a modified laser cutter (fitted with a low-power 405nm UV laser) to make alternative process prints. I started with Cyanotypes as they presented a fairly fast and easy way to test my process. Long story short my laser exposure process worked but it was...

www.photrio.com

There's a lot to cover so I'll probably make several replies in that thread over a few days with more info.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

I've been printing a lot. Here's one.