Showcase for Your HCWP's

[koraks]

toned with sumac gall

Really pretty! The black looks very strong, too. Is the scan representative of the actual print, or is it a little punchier than in the real world? Very minimal staining, too!

 

[bdial]

...For the springs on the back of my contact frame, I picked up 1/8”x3/4” aluminum strips from Lowes. I may swap them out for steel if I can find some thin enough, as I worry a little that they aren’t giving me enough pressure for good contact. ...

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[fgorga]

Really pretty! The black looks very strong, too. Is the scan representative of the actual print, or is it a little punchier than in the real world? Very minimal staining, too!

Thanks! The scan is close to the actual print.

Sumac gall gives a nice eggplant color (black with a tinge of purple) and, as you say, very little staining.

I am using the method described in Annette Golaz's book (https://www.routledge.com/Cyanotype...ueprints-Naturally/Golaz/p/book/9780367553548). In a nutshell... no bleaching and tone with hot extract.

The sumac gall toner also contains some calcium carbonate. Some toners work best with the carbonate others (such as the tarragon) work better just in distilled water.

 

[koraks]

Ah, I suppose the calcium carbonate bleaches the print, which then immediately tones in the presence of the sumac gall extract. Btw, I'm familiar with sumac as a kitchen spice, but never heard about sumac galls; do you have a link to a commercial product/ seller?

 

[nmp]

Ah, I suppose the calcium carbonate bleaches the print, which then immediately tones in the presence of the sumac gall extract. Btw, I'm familiar with sumac as a kitchen spice, but never heard about sumac galls; do you have a link to a commercial product/ seller?

I doubt calcium carbonate would be an effective/appreciable bleaching agent - plus it is virtually insoluble in water. I suspect what it might be doing is de-protonating phenols in tannic acid, forming calcium salt of tannic acid which would be more reactive to ferric ferrocyanide, as I have seen reported in literature somewhere in old journals. I have tried adding sodium carbonate which does indeed make for a fast toner, but in my experience it also tended to stain more so I abandoned the idea. The toner also didn't keep well (due to oxidation?) and got really dark after a couple of hours. Perhaps, calcium carbonate is better behaved in this regard.

:Niramjan.

 

[koraks]

I doubt calcium carbonate would be an effective/appreciable bleaching agent

I think it is, though, based on the experience of having left cyanotypes for quite some time in hard (tap) water, resulting in them bleaching back almost entirely over the course of several hours. However, its of course possible (likely) that your proposed route is responsible for the majority of the bleaching.

 

[nmp]

I think it is, though, based on the experience of having left cyanotypes for quite some time in hard (tap) water, resulting in them bleaching back almost entirely over the course of several hours. However, its of course possible (likely) that your proposed route is responsible for the majority of the bleaching.

I think there are two types of "bleaching" actions. One is when left in running water, as in your example, Prussian blue simply gets dissolved and floats away from the paper making the image dimmer or even disappear. This is irreversible. There is no way to get the image back by treating it with potassium ferrocyanide, for example. (Come to think of it, I actually have never done this experiment, so it is a conjecture on my part.) The other is in the context of toning - where an alkali converts ferric ferrocyanide into yellowish ferric hydroxide with a ferrocyanide as by-product. The color change from stark blue to yellow makes it look like it has "bleached," particularly in the highlights where it blends with the paper color - but this is reversible. If the ferrocyanide is still in the tray, just adding an acid and bringing the pH below 7 would get back most of Prussian blue. If print has been washed, then treating with external ferrocyanide will bring the blue image back. (This I have done myself.)

We obviously want to minimize the former and maximize the latter to retain the Dmax in the print when toning.

:Niranjan.

 

[fgorga]

@koraks and @nmp ... I'll try to respond to your recent posts about alkali and cyanotypes in a unified reply.

CaCO3 was chosen for this application specifically because of its low solubility. In fact the concentration I use (1g/L) is probably saturated... the toning solutions containing it are certainly turbid. The limited solubility means that the pH is limited to roughly 8.5 and thus the bleaching action is slow.

I believe that @koraks idea that bleaching and toning occur simultaneously with this method is correct.

As for two "bleaching" mechanisms, I don't think that the initial washing out of Prussian Blue in the first tray after exposure counts as bleaching as usually defined in photography (i.e. a reversible process). Rather, I think that this is simply the washing out of pigment that is not well embedded in the fibers of the paper.

The fading effect of prolonged exposure of cyanotypes to hard water or the rapid effect with higher pH solutions (sodium carbonate, or ammonium hydroxide in the traditionally cyanotype toning methods is the result of the hydrolysis of Prussian Blue. This effect is reversible by adding back ferricyanide to regenerate the Prussian Blue as mentioned by Niranjan or by adding polyphenols (tannins) which generates other pigments resulting in the toning.

It is interesting to note that the folks who dye cloth or yarn with some traditional botanical dye stuffs often further treat the dyed fibers with a solution of iron sulfate. This treatments results in color shifts and in more light fast pigments

I have hard water (from my private well), in general, and that hardness changes seasonally begin especially high this time of year. In the past, this has caused me troubles with cyanotypes fading as I wash them. I avoid these troubles by adding small amounts (1-2 ml of vinegar per liter of wash water, except for the last two trays. (I don't have running water in my dim room so I wash prints with five trays of water, 5-10 min per tray.)

 

[fgorga]

Btw, I'm familiar with sumac as a kitchen spice, but never heard about sumac galls; do you have a link to a commercial product/ seller?

I have been purchasing "sumac gall tannin extract" from a local (to me) supplier of natural dye stuffs (specifically https://longridgefarm.com/product/sumac-gallic-tannin-extract/).

Similar products (the exact names vary) seem to be available from other suppliers of natural dye stuffs. Thus you might be able to find a source in the EU.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I really like the Hahn. Bamboo Mixed Media paper. I'm on my second block of the 9x12ish size that I have been using for the final prints of a series of toned cyanotypes I am working on.

Given that my working principle is that one can not have too much or too many types of paper, I say go for it and buy a test batch!!!

As for acid in the first tray for processing cyanotypes, I don't think that the nature of the acid is important as the only thing that matters is having a mildly acidic pH for the first tray.

I am interested to hear about your method of adding citric acid directly to the sensitizer. I have not heard of anyone doing that before. Do you do this in addition to using citric acid in the first tray?

FYI... to have a saturated solution of anything, there must be solid compound (citric acid in this case) remaining at the bottom of the container. I'm not sure if that is waht you wanted to ask about, but there it is.

I do agree about "anything to get around acidifying paper". Life is too short!!!

I'll have to give that Bamboo a try. Sounds good. And yeah, we obviously subscribe to the same philosophy with piles of paper. Lol. Variety is the spice of life and all.

Not much to tell as far as adding Citric Acid to the sensitizer. It stems from my laziness. I didn't want to do the extra step of acidifying paper so I thought I'd give the acid in the mix a try. I think I have a saturated(ish) solution, but you would know better than me. Curious what a saturated solution of Citric Acid would be.

I've found it does the job for the most part. Some papers that don't need a lot of acidification work well. I noticed acidifying the paper can make it last a long time after coating. Like weeks at times. I never write things down but I think acidifying the mix does something similar, though not to the extent of acidifying the paper. Some papers last longer than others. I usually don't use the paper right away after coating, though I try to use it within a week or so. I've acidified paper with Citric Acid and Sulfamic Acid. I don't really have a preference. If I don't feel like going outside, I use Citric. I never use vinegar. Not fond of the smell.

My mix for the Citric Acid solution is purely random. I mix 29g in 58ml of distilled water. I don't know where I got that amount, but I probably looked it up somewhere. Someone like you might know if that is accurate. Then I just put as many drops as ml for A and B. So 20ml A, 20ml B, then 20 drops. Like I said, totally random. Easy to remember though. I also used to add LFN but I've been using Tween lately. I don't know if there is a difference aside from viscosity. I think I need to thin my Tween down though.

One thing I do know after thousands of cyanotypes and experimenting all the time is that keeping everything acidic makes for better prints with few exceptions. The speed is higher and the tonality is better and it is a pretty dramatic difference too. Stonehenge for example will not print a highlight without acid. Adding the CA to the mix has worked out fine, so I keep doing it, even when I acidify the paper first, though in that case it probably isn't needed.

I hope that makes sense. That was quite the word salad! Give it a try though. Like you said, anything to shorten the trip.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Frank those Sumac prints are something else. No staining!

 

[koraks]

@fgirga thanks for this excellent information!

 

[KYsailor]

those toned cyanotypes are greaat - I really like the sumac ones. I recently tried to tone a few of my overexposed cyano's, first bleaching and then with "tree nut tannin" ( I think this was for wine making), while I did get some decent blacks, it really stained the Revere Platinum and the canson bristol papers I was using....will have to try to try the sumac.

I do remember on some earlier toning experiments with a toner made from sweet potato skins. I added the calcium carbonate per Annette Golaz's book. I live in Kentucky where all of the rocks are limestone ( calcium carbonate basically) so I finely ground up a bit and added it - not very soluble, but I guess it may have helped. Will try the sumac. I just ordered some tannic acid from artcraft and will see how that works as well. Ultimately if I can get the cyanotypes to give a nice black, I will try it as a base layer for some gum bichromate prints, although the blue cyanotypes also work as a cyan layer ....

Dave

 

[fgorga]

I'll have to give that Bamboo a try. Sounds good. And yeah, we obviously subscribe to the same philosophy with piles of paper. Lol. Variety is the spice of life and all.

Not much to tell as far as adding Citric Acid to the sensitizer. It stems from my laziness. I didn't want to do the extra step of acidifying paper so I thought I'd give the acid in the mix a try. I think I have a saturated(ish) solution, but you would know better than me. Curious what a saturated solution of Citric Acid would be.

I've found it does the job for the most part. Some papers that don't need a lot of acidification work well. I noticed acidifying the paper can make it last a long time after coating. Like weeks at times. I never write things down but I think acidifying the mix does something similar, though not to the extent of acidifying the paper. Some papers last longer than others. I usually don't use the paper right away after coating, though I try to use it within a week or so. I've acidified paper with Citric Acid and Sulfamic Acid. I don't really have a preference. If I don't feel like going outside, I use Citric. I never use vinegar. Not fond of the smell.

My mix for the Citric Acid solution is purely random. I mix 29g in 58ml of distilled water. I don't know where I got that amount, but I probably looked it up somewhere. Someone like you might know if that is accurate. Then I just put as many drops as ml for A and B. So 20ml A, 20ml B, then 20 drops. Like I said, totally random. Easy to remember though. I also used to add LFN but I've been using Tween lately. I don't know if there is a difference aside from viscosity. I think I need to thin my Tween down though.

One thing I do know after thousands of cyanotypes and experimenting all the time is that keeping everything acidic makes for better prints with few exceptions. The speed is higher and the tonality is better and it is a pretty dramatic difference too. Stonehenge for example will not print a highlight without acid. Adding the CA to the mix has worked out fine, so I keep doing it, even when I acidify the paper first, though in that case it probably isn't needed.

I hope that makes sense. That was quite the word salad! Give it a try though. Like you said, anything to shorten the trip.

Thanks for the info.

It looks like I'll have to do some testing. I'll keep good notes though... this is second nature to me as a scientist!

 

[fgorga]

Frank those Sumac prints are something else. No staining!

Yup. Sumac gall is the least staining cyanotype toner that I have tried.

However, I have only used it with method outline in Annette Golaz's book. I've not tried it with the traditional bleach and then tone method.

I think that the Hahn. Bamboo Mixed Media paper also helps in this regard. Ms. Golaz cites this paper as particularly good with respect to minimal staining... at least I think so, I can't find her comment in a quick look through her book.

 

[fgorga]

those toned cyanotypes are greaat - I really like the sumac ones. I recently tried to tone a few of my overexposed cyano's, first bleaching and then with "tree nut tannin" ( I think this was for wine making), while I did get some decent blacks, it really stained the Revere Platinum and the canson bristol papers I was using....will have to try to try the sumac.

I do remember on some earlier toning experiments with a toner made from sweet potato skins. I added the calcium carbonate per Annette Golaz's book. I live in Kentucky where all of the rocks are limestone ( calcium carbonate basically) so I finely ground up a bit and added it - not very soluble, but I guess it may have helped. Will try the sumac. I just ordered some tannic acid from artcraft and will see how that works as well. Ultimately if I can get the cyanotypes to give a nice black, I will try it as a base layer for some gum bichromate prints, although the blue cyanotypes also work as a cyan layer ....

Dave

Thanks for the "like".

Yup. There are a lot of toners out there that give a horrible stain along with toning.

I also think that the exact method used for toning plays a role and that Golaz's method is a bit more robust than the traditional method.

But the new method is not a cure-all for staining. Want nice pink paper and highlights, try madder root! Want nice murky brown prints, try walnut husks! Both results from recent tests using Goalz's method.

Beware that "tannin" is a very generic term for a whole family of compounds. Thus, the exact plant source of the "tannin" will have a large effect on the outcome when toning. This is because different plants (even different parts of the same plant) will have a different mix of compound that are generically tannins.

As for calcium carbonate, it is very insoluble in water (maybe 20 mg/L near room temp). I use 1 g /L and my toning solutions are distinctly turbid even at temperatures where is is uncomfortable to stick your fingers in the solution.

 

[AndrewBurns]

I had another shot at printing with the Magnani Portofino but this time I printed on the back side of the paper, as this side appeared to have less of the diagonal texture that I didn't like so much on the front side. Have to say I'm pretty happy with how it turned out, definitely less diagonal pattern showing through in the print but otherwise the back surface of the paper seemed to coat and print in exactly the same way as the front. It also feels quite good and solid when wet vs. the lighter cartridge paper I've been using.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I had a few sheets of paper left over from the last batch of cyanotypes I coated for the exchange so last night I took a look through negs I've printed but never used and made a couple prints. The coating was pretty blue/old but the prints came out ok.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

This one was done on Revere Platinum.

 

[fgorga]

A couple of new images printed as cyanotypes with two different toning variations...

Toning: sumac/CaCO3

Toning: wattle/dH2O

Toning: sumac/CaCO3

Toning: wattle/dH2O

 

[koraks]

sumac/CaCO3

That is particularly sumptuous! Keep them coming, please!

 

[KYsailor]

Been awhile, learning tri color gum printing.... a few early ones - not the greatest but kind of fun and very time consuming. Have found best results starting with cyanotype for cyan layer and building from there....

Dave

.

 

[koraks]

Those leaves have a nice color contrast going on. Lovely.

 

[KYsailor]

Thanks for the compliment, but considering this was the original - I lost some of the subtlety of the water - but not bad for a first try ....I have learned cyanotype, Kallitype, VDB and photogravure... but this has been the most difficult.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Been spending the last week crawling up the Argyrotype learning curve.

First stab at an image (Haisla First Nation Totem Pole, Kitamaat, BC) after days & days of step wedges and curve adjustments. Need to control the highlights, then I'll try toning, humidifying, etc.

Paper is 30gsm Chinese machine made 100% mulberry bark. Has some blotchy issues, but I've got a 24"x384" roll of it and not worried about filling the garbage can. (crappy iPhone shot...so had to dial back contrast & the boost in colour to try and match the print)