Slide film shooting and hopelessness

[George Mann]

KR1.5... that's a B+W designation... UV(0)??

It's a color correction filter that is similar to a 1B.

 

[ntenny]

[on “make something of the sunlight from hell”]

Yes. But it results in ugly images.

I don’t know how your personal aesthetic taste runs, but if you really don’t think any image with your local winter sunlight/deep shadows will do it for you, maybe winter is a time to stay indoors and do something like still lifes.

But I tend to think there must be *something* that works: shapes of shadows, sunlit scenes framed in shadow, fallen leaves cut by the long shadows of the tree trunks, etc., plus subjects in open shade with a warming filter as already mentioned. In similar stuck situations, I’ve sometimes tried going back through my archives of old shots from similar conditions, looking for the ones that worked and trying to figure out why. Have you brought home any shots from this time of year that worked for you?

-NT

 

[George Mann]

Have you brought home any shots from this time of year that worked for you?

Yes, but not enough to waste a roll of slide film on.

 

[MFstooges]

I shot 35mm in the past because I had slide projector. After I lost the projector it was just because it is easier to scan than color negs and I haven't shot it for quite a while now.

 

[jk0592]

I use slide film (MF) very seldom, 1 roll of Ektachrome per 2 years or so, mostly to evaluate my usage of a spotmeter.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I love the look of projected slides, yet I have not bothered to set up the projector for years now.

Why? For one thing my old Kodak Carousel projector makes a lot of noise. Not just fan noise, but also a sort of rattle I can't seem to eliminate. I hope it still works. Seems like the last few times I've turned it on there was some kind of problem which required taking the damn thing apart (no easy task) and replacing some kind of plastic part or gear that failed due to age. I would rather go to the dentist than work on that slide projector.

Another factor -- slides have not just gone out of style, but seem to have aquired a negative conotation -- a kind of stigma. Slide shows are almost a joke like prunes, or beans, or accordians.

But I really do need to see what my b&w positives look like projected. But first I'll have to mount them.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Another factor -- slides have not just gone out of style, but seem to have aquired a negative conotation -- a kind of stigma. Slide shows are almost a joke like prunes, or beans, or accordians.

Style never goes out of fashion.

Don't have slide shows?
Then have print shows: prints from slides, bespoke printed, museum-grade conservation matted and framed.
People won't believe their eyes. Those of us who worked in photogravure, pre-press and magazine publishing 30-40 years ago could foresee then that slides would make way for the speed and relatively less work of digital. Today, it is not universally held that magazines accept only digital files, but also slides, but you had best make sure your exposure, subject matter, composition and other qualities are up to scratch!

I can well imagine the types of folk who hold negative connotations towards slides (of all benign things...), much like they can easily dream up negative connotations of induction cooktops, electric cars, wind power, Maccas and neutered cats!

 

[MattKing]

Slide shows are almost a joke like prunes, or beans, or accordians.

 

[mshchem]

Rock on!

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Another factor -- slides have not just gone out of style, but seem to have aquired a negative conotation -- a kind of stigma. Slide shows are almost a joke like prunes, or beans, or accordians.

I didn't receive the message here in Europe. And if I'd received it, I wouldn't let something silly like that to influence my choices. Quite the opposite, but that's me - I don't give a damn about such social evaluations.
It seems that in US everyone killed each other with poor slideshows back when slides were accessible
Probably the same as with unfiltered Facebook albums/streams today.
You gave to curate your work, treat guest time with respect. No fillers, just bangers.

Project quality slide with good lens, on projection screen and in light-controlled room. You'll realize how hard would it be to replicate the quality you see on different medium at that size and price.

In digital terms I'd call such a slide projection lossless. Paper starts to limit and to introduce it's own "coloring" to the "signal" and TV's/ Monitors do the same + limit color gamut, displaying also mountain of limits that come from digitization (scanner, digital camera "scan") and software of choice where post was done in.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Sorry, didn’t mean to trigger anyone with my observation about some peoples reaction to slide shows.

To be clear, I love slide shows - and prunes and beans and accordion music. So when ignorant people make jokes and roll their eyes, that’s their problem, not mine. ;-)

 

[DREW WILEY]

No, Taylor, KR 1.5 is the Euro designation for a red-amber filter just slightly warmer than a 1B pinkish skylight filter. It's not colorless at all. Then a KR3 is exactly double that, just as if two KR 1.5's were sandwiched together. Depending on the strength you need for a particular kind of lighting, these offset the excessive cyan/blue response of Ektar.

These are not in fact directly equivalent to 81A and 81C warming filters, according to Wratten designations, which are more yellow-amber, though still potentially quite useful when shooting Ektar. (81C is a bit extreme, though I've found it useful for correcting deep blue shadows at high altitude under open sunlight).

For my 1B, 81A, and 81C, I use HMC Hoya multicoated glass filters. The no.0 colorless has only been useful in conjunction with Ektachrome color film in relation to high-altitude distance shots; it has no real value to me with Ektar CN film. For Fujichrome, the Hoya 1B works better in that application. If I just wanted to leave the same filter on my lens all the time when shooting Ektar, it would be the following :

My favorite general filter for Ektar is the Sing-Ray KN, which is just about halfway between a 1B skylight and an 81A warming filter. I think this has been renamed the Hi-Lux Warming Filter; these are quite expensive.

 

[perkeleellinen]

Sorry, didn’t mean to trigger anyone with my observation about some peoples reaction to slide shows.

It's true what you say, some shows in the past were dreadul. It's not really the slides themselves, more like the projectionist's poor editing of the slides. Sometimes I suspect no editing took place and people had to endure all manner of terrible images whilst sitting in a darkened room trying not to fall asleep after a glass or two of wine.

I've been thinking a lot about this and how to liven things up, I do very short shows, less than one minute, ten or so images maximum, people standing around watching, never sitting. I put it on loop and people can come and go. What works for me is more pictures of people we know, that gets attention, but it's hard to keep attention that seems to be getting even harder.

 

[BradS]

When the light isn't conducive, one must put the camera(s) away and find something else to do.

Get out the maps and plan a road trip, try color crayons, make candles, learn to bake bread, make prints, make a photo book, visit the library....don't force it!
Don't keep photographing in crappy light....especially with expensive film!

 

[BradS]

• make prints
• load up a roll of Ilford HP5+ and make the harsh light the subject
• go indoors and do macro photos
• learn to use artificial light(s)
• crash a wedding (and take pictures)
• plan a road trip
• take a road trip
• make postcards and get local shops to add them to their stock.
• make photos of dried pears in the style of Edward Weston's peppers
• binge watch an entire season of "Breaking Bad"
• get your self a 4x5 Crown Graphic and a hundred sheets of 4x5 Ektachrome learn the real meaning of "expensive"
• get a stack of nice clean newsprint and some finger paints...and think like a five year old.
• sell it all and buy a (new) Leica M6 and a 35mm Summicron....or a Leica Q3
• talk to a doctor about seasonal affective disorder.

 

[AnselMortensen]

• get your self a 4x5 Crown Graphic and a hundred sheets of 4x5 Ektachrome learn the real meaning of "expensive".

Ummm... if you really want to know what "expensive" is, check the price of fresh Fujichrome Provia in 8x10.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Ummm... if you really want to know what "expensive" is, check the price of fresh Fujichrome Provia in 8x10.

Film in any format is now vastly more expensive than it was say 5-6 years ago, and several orders of magnitude higher than 20 to 30 years ago; I can go back four decades and the losses of many films far outweigh the piecemeal gains over that time. The expense of using film over "cheaper, faster means..." frequently comes up in conversations. If film prices continually increase, as it is bound to do in 2025, this certainly will not be an incentive to new users or returning users to embrace analogue with enthusiasm — quite the reverse actually, and all the gradual positive gains we have witnessed in recent times of a "resurgence" in film will be lost. Large format analogue is now too (read: ridiculously) expensive for me; I use digital for that.

 

[DREW WILEY]

But Taylor, it's exactly what large format film can do which typical digital capture falls so hopelessly short of - unless you're just talking about stock photo images going to be published or presented small anyway. Lots of magazines once carried reductions of large format images, rather than enlargements, which might seem counterintuitive, but not back when the selection was made atop a light box.

In any event, shooting large format tends to be slow and methodical anyway, although there are still a number of machine gunners out there. Everything else is going up in price too, so it's all relative. But I'll certainly be consuming 8X10 film a lot more cautiously than I once did.

And from everything I am encountering among the younger crowd, film is regaining ground regardless. No, most of them will not be able to afford a personal darkroom space or end up shooting large format, but a few inevitably will. Once you're hooked, you're hooked.

Yeah, film has gone way up; and that's why I bought a freezer, back when sheet film prices were much better. But if you want to talk about dramatic price increases, just look at what has happened to decent used film cameras in any format category - many have doubled in price the last few years, yet are selling out very quickly.

I even had a nine year old boy walk up to me on the trail a few days ago complementing me on my well-worn Ries wooden tripod. He showed me some of his own black and white cell phone shots from the same day, then added that his Grandma had purchased him a thousand dollar film camera, but it hadn't arrived by Christmas yet. Nice Grandma. I didn't ask what kind of camera it was; the kid is already off to a good start. That was just one of five similar encounters just this week; all of them were interested in film. The only people around here I see shooting serious digital cameras are birders and pro wildlife photographers.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I've been thinking a lot about this and how to liven things up, I do very short shows, less than one minute, ten or so images maximum, people standing around watching, never sitting.

Here's my experience: I throw slide shows to my friends acquaintances once or two a year and do a public projection about every 5th.
Dark room, slides and consciously picked/curated music to go as a background to set the respective mood shown in slides:
- URBEX shots call for Industrial Dark Ambient;
- Cityscapes for some instrumental Synthwave/Post-Punk;
- Nature - for Ambient/Dark Ambient with field recordings of nature's sounds like water, birds, winds...
- Chernobyl slides - handpicked Dark Ambient/Ambient where respective public announcements and "Pripyat" sounds are featured;
- And then there's Psychedelic slides that call for darkest Ritual Dark Ambient that easily creates a heavy, dark and scary ambiance to endure and to enjoy.

It's all purposeful, tight and dark and easily for an hour or two, taking a little break per every tray of 50 slides to have a chat and drug of choice (Coffee, Tea, Alcohol, Tobacco, Weed, Shrooms)
They keep asking for more, for longer shows, but I take with me only up to two, to leave them wanting more. That's the best approach.


I'm a merciless curator - I often discard what later could have some nostalgic value, but doesn't work as a standalone shot. I keep waaaay less then I shoot. At the end of the day, it's not about quantity, but quality time and perhaps - a message and not being random/all over the place.


It's fun to take that Dark Ambient on vinyl and to play back it at reduced speed - maaan, that makes things really visceral, psyche responds interesting to that

 

[perkeleellinen]

Here's my experience:

That is excellent. Ivo, I think we may have similar taste in music.

 

[miha]

Has it ever made you seriously evaluate the continued use of film?

Currently, I have 40 sheets of Provia 100F in 4x5, about 15 rolls in 120, and one roll in 135 stored in my fridge. I plan to shoot this in 2025, and I fear this will mark the bitter end of slide film for me, perhaps even for color film in general. The cost of color film in larger formats, as well as E6 developing, is becoming prohibitively expensive.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

That is excellent. Ivo

Thanks! Reading threads like these I'm forced to conclude that:
- curation matters and possibly even more than the raw output to be curated - the art of exclusion and being coherent;
- that or I'm blessed to have people around me that gladly give 2 hours of their time to see my slides.
- The truth is probably somewhere in-between good curation, decently composed and exposed subject matter (of interest to the public) and music consciously selected to compliment the atmospheres present, and vice-versa.
- Slide projection can be interesting as a tech on it's own as it's rarely seen by general public and I love to crush the stereotype of film being inferior, love the comments about fidelity, color, sharpness, character and
there being zero pixels/grid on the screen - silky smooth presentation instead.

Sometimes I wonder if I have put more time into music selection or shooting/developing my slides. Music has whole worlds for me and I'm usually into raw, emotive, powerful and uncompromising music - usually on the dark side of things. Happy sounds just empty to me, disgusting even
And I dislike the corporate piracy that is Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal and every other streaming service out there that pays shit to artists and have devalued music into oblivion. Hence my love for physical media - especially if purchased directly from artists or at venues. I like to support countless artists I love, not the dirty thief in suits.


If interested in my tastes, I have compiled numerous Spotify playlists:

https://open.spotify.com/user/11157205794/playlists

And these two are curated for my Urban Exploration slides:
URBEX:


RUREX:

The cost of color film in larger formats, as well as E6 developing, is becoming prohibitively expensive.

That's why I picked up BW Reversal - one Provia 100F developed costs about 30EUR. I can have 4-5 excellent BW "Slide Films" for that price, developed. The math just doesn't support color for hobby application. It's as if they consciously want that E-6 film to be inaccessible to general public.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Slide film shooters, do you ever feel that it has become a waste of time (let alone cost) to even attempt to find something worth shooting in your neck of the woods? Do you agonize over it to the point of taking your digital camera out instead?

How many times are you willing to use expensive slide film to repeatedly shoot the same scenes and subjects?

Has it ever made you seriously evaluate the continued use of film?

I use slide film (120 size Provia 100f, around €12/roll in the EU), processed myself using Bellini/Tetenal/Adox kits, to make medium format stereo colour slides. As regards image quality, no current digital display can match the overall quality of properly exposed and processed slide film ... not even Apple's Vision One display. So digital ... at least for now ... is definitely second best.

As for subjects, I make 3 or 4 short trips to various places in Europe each year, shooting around 5 or 6 rolls on each trip ... so no shortage of new subjects.

I also shoot stereo B&W reversal, not because it's less expensive, but because it's a different look.

But of course I also use my Fujifilm X-T30 camera all the time for "normal" photography.

I think if you love photography, you love all formats and modalities. I've been using my Minox C recently with ISO12 film ... great fun!

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I think if you love photography, you love all formats and modalities.

Not necessarily.

around €12/roll in the EU

Where? Do they have a webstore?

 

[ChrisGalway]

Not necessarily.

I'm not going to dispute that!

Where? Do they have a webstore?

FotoKoch, Foto Erhardt, Maco Direct, Ars-Imago (Italy store), Retro, BCG ... probably more. (FotoImpex quotes charging €18/roll.) Of course, none of these stores have it in stock! But you can back order and/or subscribe to stock alerts from most of them. Yes, actually getting hold of the film takes some patience but I seem to acquire 4-6 boxes of 120 size a year (arriving pretty randomly). I got 2 boxes delivered last week from FotoKoch.