stability of 'sunny 16'

Paul Howell · Sunday at 1:47 PM

I normally see a 1/2 to full stop between a reflective and incident and meters depending on the scene, how much sky, or very bight and large reflective surfaces may be present. It is my understanding that Nikon optimized their version of matrix or evaluative meting for slides, not sure if true or not, with my F4 I use avenging mode for black and white. A few weeks ago I did shoot a roll of Foma 400 rated at 400 in my Nikon F using sunny 16, developed in Diafine. Lighting was good, used the old Kodak sunny 16 caculator from my Kodak Feild, without a desemotoery not sure if I can see any differance between sunny 16 and my Nikon F4 or Minolta 9.

RalphLambrecht · Sunday at 9:19 PM

Craig said:
I measured just now, in several ways. I used a Gossen Lunasix 3, with it's proper mercury battery, Minolta Autometer III, Nikon F4 and Nikon F6. I measured using the both incident (where possible) and reflective off a Kodak grey card (all). All meters set to ISO 100.

Measurements were taken with meters pointing at the sun ( incident), or pointed at the grey card (reflective), which itself was perpendicular to the sun. Clear sky, 3 hours before solar noon in Calgary, Alberta, latitude 51 deg N. The results:

Nikon F4: 250 F11 EV 15
Nikon F6: 250 F8 1/3 EV 14 1/3
Luna6: 250 F8 2/3 EV 14 2/3 (reflective and incident identical)
Minolta: 250 F16 EV 16 (incident)
250 F11 8/10 EV 15.8 (reflective)

So between the 4 meters, I have a range of almost 2 stops. I have achieved excellent results on slide film from the Nikon F6, so I tend to believe that, along with the Gossen. The Minolta seems to be an outlier, I have not used it enough to say anything about results using it's readings.

reading off agraycard, which is pointed at the sun is prone to varibility dueto the angle at which is measured. thevariability is in your method, not in the sun!

DREW WILEY · Sunday at 9:38 PM

What is the meaning of "sunny"? That happens a out two months out of the year here on the coast.

And what is a "gray card"? I once measured a stack of about 24 of them with an industrial quality reflection spectrophotometer, and they were all over the place, some as much as 15% off; and they even varied within the same brand. The only thing spot on was the middle gray patch of the MacBeth Color Checker Chart.

mshchem · Sunday at 10:16 PM

The sun is about as constant as it gets.

Atmospheric conditions are something else. Kodak backing paper, in the good old days had great recommended settings.

foc · Monday at 4:44 AM

I live on the northwest coast of Ireland and consequently don't have to worry about the sun.

BrianShaw · Monday at 9:13 AM

mshchem said:
Kodak backing paper, in the good old days had great recommended settings.

… when photographers were more interested in getting a picture rather than questing for technical perfection.

My Dad was an avid amateur photographer and us kids were his favorite subjects. The most painful memory of that experience was him buying a real light meter.

Alan Edward Klein · Monday at 9:20 AM

BrianShaw said:
… when photographers were more interested in getting a picture rather than questing for technical perfection.

My Dad was an avid amateur photographer and us kids were his favorite subjects. The most painful memory of that experience was him buying a real light meter.

Film was very mistake-proof back then. Remember those little yellow exposure guides inside the film boxes? Here's a picture of one of them. SImple. Hard to make a mistake.

kodak exposure guide chart - Yahoo Image Search Results

BrianShaw · Monday at 9:34 AM

Alan Edward Klein said:
Film was very mistake-proof back then. Remember those little yellow exposure guides inside the film boxes? Here's a picture of one of them. SImple. Hard to make a mistake.

kodak exposure guide chart - Yahoo Image Search Results

Good point. In hindsight, he bought the light meter because Kodachrome was so difficult to properly expose. So I should really blame Kodachrome for making part of my childhood miserable rather than blaming the light meter. If only I met you before years of therapy… LOL

wiltw · Monday at 1:45 PM

RalphLambrecht said:
reading off agraycard, which is pointed at the sun is prone to varibility dueto the angle at which is measured. thevariability is in your method, not in the sun!

Illustrating the point about variability of the light reflecting off an 18% gray card, varying with the angle to the sun...this shot series made years ago, admitted;y with inclusion of exaggerated angles for illustration how surface sheen contributes to variability, first row illustrating vertical angle variability, second row illustrating horizontal and vertical angle variability..e

...why Kodak instructions for minimizing variability said to, "Aim the surface of the gray card toward a point one third of the compound angle between your camera and (the light source)
(2007). (Note: these instructions do not appear on all versions of Kodak instructions...for example, they are not part of instuctions in 1948.)

Paul Howell · Monday at 3:38 PM

wiltw said:
Illustrating the point about variability of the light reflecting off an 18% gray card, varying with the angle to the sun...this shot series made years ago, admitted;y with inclusion of exaggerated angles for illustration how surface sheen contributes to variability, first row illustrating vertical angle variability, second row illustrating horizontal and vertical angle variability..e

...why Kodak instructions for minimizing variability said to, "Aim the surface of the gray card toward a point one third of the compound angle between your camera and (the light source)
(2007). (Note: these instructions do not appear on all versions of Kodak instructions...for example, they are not part of instuctions in 1948.)

In college and Air Force tech school we were taught that an incident meter is the most consistent method of metering, gray card is doable buy why use a gray card when you can use an incident meter just as easily?

Chan Tran · Monday at 3:46 PM

Paul Howell said:
In college and Air Force tech school we were taught that an incident meter is the most consistent method of metering, gray card is doable buy why use a gray card when you can use an incident meter just as easily?

Incident meter is easier than the gray card. But of course there are situation where neither would work.

Paul Howell · Monday at 6:34 PM

Chan Tran said:
Incident meter is easier than the gray card. But of course there are situation where neither would work.

That's why in really tricky lighting, spot meter or bracket or both.

Stephen Benskin · Monday at 6:56 PM

RalphLambrecht said:
reading off agraycard, which is pointed at the sun is prone to varibility dueto the angle at which is measured. thevariability is in your method, not in the sun!

foc · Tuesday at 4:59 AM

Paul Howell said:
That's why in really tricky lighting, spot meter or bracket or both.

When I studied photography, many, many years ago, we were taught "if in doubt, bracket. Film is cheap, client's time is not".

Chan Tran · Tuesday at 6:05 AM

foc said:
When I studied photography, many, many years ago, we were taught "if in doubt, bracket. Film is cheap, client's time is not".

But today film is not cheap and I don't have a paying client.

Paul Howell · Tuesday at 1:07 PM

I find that in good lighting 90% of the time I can use TTL metering, or a hand held meter in average or SLR with matrix, with backlit spot metering. Tricky lighting such as a woodland scene with layers of shadows and sun I bracket. When I shot my last roll with my Nikon F using sunny 16, decent lighting, full sun early to mid-morning, a few passing clouds, some shadows between buildings, the negatives are printable. I did cheat with sunny 16 as I used an old Kodak Master Photo-guide, with a cacluator for both B&W and color. The Color is not much use, but the black and white worked fine for shadows, open vs dark.

stability of 'sunny 16'

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