Stubborn screws: Milling out screw heads, recommendations for milling cutters

Mal Paso

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HSS is High Speed Steel which is an alloy that cuts plain steel like butter. There is also Carbide which is even harder.
 

koraks

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Reginald S said:
HSS is an old german term
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Sorry, couldn't help but chuckle about this.
See post above - HSS=High Speed Steel. The German transliteration would be something like HGS (Hochgeschwindigkeitsstahl), but in practice it's called Schnellarbeitsstahl, which would shorten to SAS. But the habit of making everything into an acronym is less common in the German language area, it seems, so I'm not sure if they use a proper German acronym in the first place.

It's conceivable that the concept of steel legers intended specifically for high-speed machining is German, though.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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I also bought the other two diamond cutters available in Germany and Austria from Dremel, so that I should be prepared for the last option when removing screws.

Diamantbestückter Fräser 2,0 mm Schnitzen/Gravieren | Dremel

Schnitzen/Gravieren Diamantbestückter Fräser 2,0 mm von hoher Qualität für Ihr Projekt. ✓Dauerhaft ✓Höchster Sicherheitsstandard ✓Perfekte Ergebnisse. Lesen Sie mehr!
www.dremel.com

Diamantbestückter Fräser 2,4 mm Schnitzen/Gravieren | Dremel

Langlebiger, zylinderförmiger, diamantbestückter Fräser 2,4 mm, perfekt zum Gravieren in harten Materialien.
www.dremel.com

There are other diamond cutter shapes on Dremel's US site.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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The German Wikipedia page for „HSS“:

Schnellarbeitsstahl – Wikipedia

de.m.wikipedia.org
 

Laurent

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As a matter of fact, I just discovered they can be bought on IFixit, so I ordered a pair. My soul is safe, I did not have to buy from Amazon!

They may be my last resort for a Canon Winder which has a stubborn screw in the battery holder in a place where I can't reach it with the Dremel, and the screw is screwed in a plastic part.
 

eli griggs

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One approach that might be tried out, with the Dremel or similar variable speed motor, is to use the Dremel Plunging Router, mounted onto a heavy Lexan sheet that is adjustable with legs that can be replaced in increments of one half inches (1.5") wooden dowel x4 @ length.

A fine blade in a chop saw will give repeatable lengths for each set's length.
, IMO.

Secure each screw head beneath the router-table and just by plunging, ensure the drill or mill is centered properly, and the plunge length is set to just the top of the screw head's top, before plugging the power cord in.

IMO, the camera can be held secured enough in a small milling vice or, don't laugh, a supporting surface for the camera of Legos, mounted on a second level board, with nesting pipes, used to connect to the Dremel Board's legs into one unit.

Power up and over the problem screw, secured flat, begin to dip the router into the screw head, in very small increments until you've reached your goal depth.

Reset up the camera, new screw placement, router height, etc and repeat.

You don't need a lot of downward force to keep the drill or mill moving into the screw's head or below. Just let the Dremel type tool, do the work, keep it steady and again make your depth.

I think this is easier than said, and should give repeatable results.

IMO
 

Laurent

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... and the pliers arrived today, I think this is the ultimate weapon for stubborn screws when the head is not countersunk. Took me 30s to get the screw out, I'm blown out!
 

eli griggs

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Laurent said:
... and the pliers arrived today, I think this is the ultimate weapon for stubborn screws when the head is not countersunk. Took me 30s to get the screw out, I'm blown out!
Click to expand...

Post a link, please, to the plyers you bought, so those of us that need a pair can find their own.

Glad to hear you had success!

Godspeed
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Laurent

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eli griggs said:
Post a link, please, to the plyers you bought, so those of us that need a pair can find their own.

Glad to hear you had success!

Godspeed
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Andreas was faster than me for the link (Thanks @Andreas Thaler )
 

Reginald S

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koraks said:
Sorry, couldn't help but chuckle about this.
See post above - HSS=High Speed Steel. The German transliteration would be something like HGS (Hochgeschwindigkeitsstahl), but in practice it's called Schnellarbeitsstahl
Click to expand...

Sorry for being late.
More than 100 years ago we have had to use relatively soft steel for our tools.
Then the HSS arrived which for sure meant High Speed Steel in comparism to the before being common steel.
The german meaning of HSS was and is Schnellarbeitsstahl which has been said for High Speed ability as in your countries.

But.
Today these terms practically have nothing to do with speed - if you want speed, you have to chose HM Hard Metal or ceramic tools.
Today the only reason for HSS usage is the lower price (it's good enough for cutting aluminium and buttersmooth steel), and a good grinding behaviour which allows for grinding your own tools, let's say tools with special shapes.
You can grind it fast with simple Corund grinding tools.
For other usage I gave up using HSS long time ago.

The other thing is the hardness of steels.
HSS, often sold cheap as HSSR in craftman's supermarket is the weakest material which neither stands for long times nor is it able to cut or drill harder steel or stainless steel.

If you want to drill stainless steel you will switch to HSSE whereas "E" stands for an alloy with 8% Cobalt.
If you want more HM Hard Metal is the answer.
Try to mill wood with a handhold mill and HSS milling cutter; you will learn within minutes about steel not being able to drive fast and to stay long.
 

eli griggs

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Interesting viewpoint, but in the vast majority of photographic kit, cameras and lenses, etc, is there any regular applications that HSS won't handle with ease?

I like Cobalt or HSSE as you designate it, and, would love to have a quality Machinist set, but I've not yet run into a camera or lens that'll call for Cobalt Steel, over HHS but the I've never drilled Titanium cameras or shutters for that matter.

If you know of any actual kit that'll need more than HHS, please share what you've come up against.

Cheers
 

Reginald S

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Andreas Thaler said:

HSS cutter

View attachment 370011
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eli griggs said:
Interesting viewpoint, but in the vast majority of photographic kit, cameras and lenses, etc, is there any regular applications that HSS won't handle with ease?
Click to expand...

Obvisiously, yes.
Srews usually are harder than camera bodies.
High Speed metal/woodworking correlates with heat but HSS isn't designed for heat resistance so from today's view it isn't designed for High Speed.

Not a viewpoint but coming from data sheets and ancient experience.
There are no secrets about metalworking and correlations like base material, rpm speed, required tools - and some other important points.
All written down in table books and always taught to the next generations.
 

eli griggs

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Yes, but it in most cases of stuck screws, we're speaking about decades old metallurgy, no?
 

Reginald S

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I have made my statements based on some lathe work, drilling and milling practice, founded with some technical aspects and historical meanings of terms.
Everybody here feels free to work again with HSS and 10.000 Dremel rpm, of course.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Reginald S said:
I have made my statements based on some lathe work, drilling and milling practice, founded with some technical aspects and historical meanings of terms.
Everybody here feels free to work again with HSS and 10.000 Dremel rpm, of course.
Click to expand...

I didn't get anywhere with my camera screws using HSS bits on a Dremel. Tungsten carbide and diamond burrs helped.

But I'm hoping for this elegant method now:

Loosen stubborn screws: Boa Micro Grabit Extractors

Screws that cannot be loosened and whose screw head is damaged by attempts to unscrew it, so that nothing works anymore: every craftsman's nightmare. When dismantling cameras and lenses, it often happens that a screw does not want to come out. Be it rust or a thread being fixed with glue - the...
www.photrio.com
 

Reginald S

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As Drew has mentioned before - and what I can say from my experience - this extractors are the perfect tools for this jobs. If the exctractors are of high quality
My first extractor set 40 years ago has been a sheap buy of sheap stuff, and they broke like mumified bones.

Normally I can rescue my stubborn screws with two simple tricks:
I turn the screwdriver clockwise before turning anticlockwise.
I give the screwdriver (already placed in the head of the screw) a little ding, in your case of tiny screws with a very small hammer.
Needless to say that the screwdriver has to be of high quality.

In the case of glued screws, heat will do the trick. Which could lead to melted camera bodies.

If you ever meet an old aluminium screw fitted in an aluminium block or nut, in probably 98% you will have to bore deep and to pray loud.
 

eli griggs

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Harbor Freight sells tiny screwdrivers, including one with UHMW plastic polymer and a brass head.

They have other, useful hammers, with both wood and nylon handles, but, if you buy peen hammers, be sure to make the ball ends smooth, polished and snag free.

HF also has a larger than Dremel hand tool/drill motor, which is powerful but cheaper and more heavier than a Dremel.

IIRC, there is a cable handle to and they carry other Dremel drill types, sanders polishers, etc consumables.

They do sell a cheap soldering iron and a wood burner's iron with brass heads, which I like better.

The really interesting things you'll find there, are sets of micro mills and drills, which are divided into two packages, of identical pieces, for a second chance with each type.

Cheers,
Eli
 
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Andreas Thaler

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When it comes to removing steel screw heads - as a last resort when all else fails - I now rely on milling freehand with Dremel diamond milling bits.



This allows me to work in a controlled and precise manner with the Dremel without damaging the surrounding area too much.

Beforehand, part of the screw head can be drilled out, which is more precise and quicker.

The remaining screw thread can then be unscrewed using the Nejisaurus pliers. Or it can stay in the camera.

This approach is often the only way for me to be able to continue working on the device.

I recently did this again with a Canon T70 where a screw in the bottom of the camera refused to loosen.
 
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Ron (Netherlands)

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Hmm, do you consider the photo an example of your statement "work in a controlled and precise manner"?
Although I have experience with several dremels, I do not consider them a professional piece of equipment, and certainly not adequate for this type of very fine work. Like is said before, they are meant for work round the house and used free hand - also suggested more than once in this thread - it certainly gives a big risk of not providing a professional result......but that is - with all respect - perhaps not really what you are striving for?
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Ron (Netherlands) said:
Hmm, do you consider the photo an example of your statement "work in a controlled and precise manner"?
Click to expand...
Yes I do.

Ron (Netherlands) said:
Although I have experience with several dremels, I do not consider them a professional piece of equipment, and certainly not adequate for this type of very fine work.
Click to expand...

It depends on which tool you attach to the Dremel and what skills you have to work with it.

The tungsten carbide cutters mill out the screw heads too quickly and are therefore difficult to control. That's why I switched to the diamond cutters, which are smaller and finer. This allows for much more control.


What is wrong with the result, see last picture? The screw head is cleanly severed with minimal collateral damage all around.

The scratch on the bottom left is my fault; I was careless.

The Dremel is a reliable tool, you can also do fine work with it. In my experience, there is nothing wrong with it. I mostly work freehand with it. When power is not important, I use the small Dremel Stylo.

If stubborn screws become a problem when disassembling a camera that you want to repair, you should weigh up whether to abandon the repair project or accept the loss of a screw and possible collateral damage. As already mentioned, milling out screw heads is the very last resort if all other methods fail.

What techniques and tools do you use for this task, what are your experiences and results, can you show examples of „professional“ results from your or others work for comparison?

I am very interested in this topic
 
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Andreas Thaler

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forest bagger said:
I think the main problem is the remaining stump which you can not get out any more.
Click to expand...

That's something you have to expect, although the PZ-57 pliers can do a lot.

PZ-57 | ENGINEER INC.-Global

How to remove stripped and damaged screws? 5-inch Screw Removal Pliers for electronic components, PCB, mobile phone, game console, etc. 120mm small-sized body and ESD-safe handles. PZ-57 NEJI-SAURUS
www.engineertools-jp.com
 
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