Tariffs and Film and Paper prices

GregY · Sunday at 6:22 PM

GregY said:
Craig, At the same time, why would Harman choose to invest/build in a country with high wages & economic volatility?

MattKing said:
Someone, somewhere, has probably tried to develop film in instant ramen!

Ramenol ??

GregY · Sunday at 6:28 PM

AnselMortensen said:
Yes...yet another reason I'll be eating less of it.

Excellent fresh ramen is offered in Japan, but the cheap commercial packaged stuff is largely made by Nissan Foods...& they have plants in Lancaster Pennsylvania....

GregY · Sunday at 6:30 PM

Craig said:
I can't imagine Adox wants to disclose their trade secrets and formulas to a competitor. Even if they did, there is additional cost to having a third party coat, package and distribute their products. I suspect that would end up being more expensive than paying a tariff, even if Adox wanted to go that way.

Exactly.....

DREW WILEY · Sunday at 7:48 PM

There was a giant new Saki plant built only a block away from my old work place. It's still going strong. But you'd have to drink a lot of even saki to get inebriated enough to think that any kind of film or paper developer would warrant that scale of production investment.
The building permit itself was two million dollars; and that was before even the demolition of a former commercial interest on the same lot. (That particular expense was terribly underestimated; the former business manufactured and distributed aircraft cable; and they used their own surplus of it to reinforce the foundation, rather than conventional rebar. Well, it made helluva lot stronger foundation, but also a helluva lot harder foundation to break up and remove when the incoming Saki plant figured out they needed a different configuration). Murphy's law once again. I'm pretty sure Mr. Murphy is now synonymous with someone else; but I won't go there.

Don_ih · Sunday at 8:34 PM

BobUK said:
@koraks seems to have just beaten me with a similar thought.

That thought was put forward in plenty of already deleted comments.

mshchem · Sunday at 10:04 PM

GregY said:
Excellent fresh ramen is offered in Japan, but the cheap commercial packaged stuff is largely made by Nissan Foods...& they have plants in Lancaster Pennsylvania....

Pennsylvania Ramen! Oh the Humanity!!!!

koraks · Monday at 1:46 AM

Don_ih said:
That thought was put forward in plenty of already deleted comments.

As well as plenty of non-deleted ones, too. By and large, the thoughts expressed in this thread or in most forum posts on the internet are not very novel, original or unique.
I'd wager to say that the comment about Fuji's paper business was fairly specific and original, however.

Don_ih · Monday at 5:39 AM

koraks said:
By and large, the thoughts expressed in this thread or in most forum posts on the internet are not very novel, original or unique.

If a thought needed to be unique to be expressed or deemed valuable, no one would have any right to speak whatsoever.

pentaxuser · Monday at 7:50 AM

Don_ih said:
If a thought needed to be unique to be expressed or deemed valuable, no one would have any right to speak whatsoever.

Yes there is little that meets either criterion in the world let alone in Photrio

pentaxuser

Alan Edward Klein · Monday at 9:26 AM

If people never thought out of the box, there would be no photography. Our memories of what our deceased family looked like would only be in our heads.

Carnie Bob · Monday at 10:15 AM

Luckily Palladium is 1/2 the price of a couple of years ago , this is my only purchase that right now affects me personally

bfilm · Monday at 12:46 PM

koraks said:
And Fuji's paper business will take a significant hit due to these tariffs, which will accelerate its inevitable demise.

I think the Fujifilm silver halide chemicals and paper are doing fairly well.

They have a dedicated website for the photographic paper and chemicals.

The remaining Fujfilm factories are paper in the Netherlands and chemicals in Belgium and Singapore.

And Fujifilm gave an informative interview in 2023:

David Honey, general manager, Sales & Marketing, Fujifilm Europe:

"What we are concerned about now is the ecosystem of silver halide. How to keep silver halide as the premium quality photographic system. Particularly for printing. So a lot of the work we are doing in Holland is around sustaining this silver halide ecosystem."

Tom De Rop, business manager, Photo Imaging Products, photo chemicals business Belgium:

"chemistry for CN16/C41 films and E6 films is very much part of the future."

"Our senior management stresses on keeping a full ecosystem of paper and chemistry in hand, in close cooperation with the equipment manufacturers."

"Our plant has enough capacity, raw materials and packaging materials to respond to any kind of demand that the market lays upon us -- [existing] customers or prospects."

Fujifilm is also evidently working on a biodegradable photographic paper.

Richard van den Bergh, business manager, Photo Imaging Products, photo paper business Netherlands:

"We take out the polyethylene layers and use a bio-plastic. We had the first test samples at end of March and those were looking good... so in June we will do the first production with our (bulk paper stock) supplier Felix Schoeller."

"I think in the industry our competitors like HP or Canon often refer to silver halide as being old and dirty, which is not the case in my humble opinion. We are developing a more closed and better process."

"We are still investing heavily in the factory. In people and machines."

"The love for photo imaging within Fujifilm is very, very big. It’s really still a very important part of our DNA as well as our product turnover. We are still very much committed to the complete ecosystem."

ChrisGalway · Monday at 12:53 PM

mshchem said:
Exactly, what kind of lunatic would want to invest with such turmoil.

Unfortunately the core of this discussion is something that can't really be discussed.

That's OK, I'm more than happy to discuss pre-washing film

OK, so what are the pros and cons of pre-washing? (Since we are not permitted to discuss anything else ...).

Pieter12 · Monday at 1:16 PM

Alan Edward Klein said:
If people never thought out of the box, there would be no photography. Our memories of what our deceased family looked like would only be in our heads.

If there would be no photography, people would still draw. It was common for folks to keep a sketchbook, for itinerant artists to draw and paint family portraits. So there would be images of friends and family for some.

Don_ih · Monday at 1:29 PM

It also wasn't "out of the box" thinking that made photography a reality. It was a lot of general and particular experimentation and observation and a lot of different people engaged in a lot of different study and practice (most of which was mundane) that brought together all the necessary elements of understanding to make it possible. Just like with everything else meaningful that comes into existence.

pentaxuser · Monday at 3:24 PM

bfilm said:
I think the Fujifilm silver halide chemicals and paper are doing fairly well.

bfilm said:
And Fujifilm gave an informative interview in 2023:

Not wishing to sound like a "Dismal Jimmy" but 2023 seems like a long time ago in the context of what is occurring now and possibly in the coming weeks and months

pentaxuser

koraks · Monday at 3:45 PM

bfilm said:
I think the Fujifilm silver halide chemicals and paper are doing fairly well.

I wish them the best and hope they'll keep manufacturing color paper for quite some time to come. How much time that is, is anyone's guess - but the general direction is very clear for all involved. Although that's not the story they'll tell in an interview, and even if you talk to these people directly, some are more candid about it than others.

mshchem · Monday at 4:04 PM

ChrisGalway said:
OK, so what are the pros and cons of pre-washing? (Since we are not permitted to discuss anything else ...).

I prewash when I want to see the pretty dyes. I have found little difference. It's fun to listen to the banter of the pros and cons

mshchem · Monday at 4:09 PM

I just ordered a used lens from MAP camera in Japan. I asked and they are covering any potential added tariffs. Must be a nightmare for Ebay and online people. No way Leica can operate with a 25% tariff added to their products. There will be plenty of cameras for everyone outside of the US.

GregY · Monday at 4:28 PM

mshchem said:
I just ordered a used lens from MAP camera in Japan. I asked and they are covering any potential added tariffs. Must be a nightmare for Ebay and online people. No way Leica can operate with a 25% tariff added to their products. There will be plenty of cameras for everyone outside of the US.

I don't even see how MAP can do it.... 25% wipes out profits. No Ebay seller is going to cover duty/taxes/tariffs....for someone in another country. Those are by nature on the buyer's dime.....
In theory it will work like this. You'll pay for your lens and shipping. You'll be contacted when the goods arrive in the USA by the courier or USPS....stating "the following amount is due on your goods." You'll have to pay before you receive the goods. Will MAP reimburse you?.....
The tariffs will upset a lot of photo trade. I remember when the EU was forming and Italy was changing frrom the lire to the €. There was much uncertainty. A pro photo friend of mine in Italy could not buy a Nikon F3....even though they were in stock. I happened to be in Japan and brought him one.

bfilm · Monday at 4:57 PM

koraks said:
I wish them the best and hope they'll keep manufacturing color paper for quite some time to come. How much time that is, is anyone's guess - but the general direction is very clear for all involved. Although that's not the story they'll tell in an interview, and even if you talk to these people directly, some are more candid about it than others.

I have the impression that, while it is perhaps not what it once was (as with everything in analog photography), the business in silver halide printing is pretty strong and even growing. I think we are in okay condition in this regard, at least for the near future.

And because silver halide prints are not a very expensive item, I think even if a large portion of the tariff has to be added to the cost in the United States, that it will not significantly affect the business.

And silver halide minilab printers are still being manufactured by Fujifilm and Noritsu. Although, the Fujifilm models might be made by Noritsu. And larger silver halide printers are still being manufactured by Polielettronica.

bfilm · Monday at 5:07 PM

While I hope plenty of people continue to make analog darkroom color prints, one thing silver halide printing has going for it business-wise that silver halide film does not is that since so much of the printing is done now from digital files, it is not only film scans but also digitally recorded images that people are printing. In other words, it is not only analog photographers getting silver halide prints but also many digital users.

DREW WILEY · Monday at 7:32 PM

B&W silver gelatin printing paper has already gone through the roof recently in terms of price. Color printing in the darkroom is actually cheaper. Very few actual silver prints are made from digital files. It's clumsy to do it that way. They might opt for a black and white only file for sake of a chromogenic RA4 printing paper, or for inkjet output, but those are entirely different.

bfilm · Monday at 7:44 PM

DREW WILEY said:
B&W silver gelatin printing paper has already gone through the roof recently in terms of price. Color printing in the darkroom is actually cheaper. Very few actual silver prints are made from digital files. It's clumsy to do it that way. They might opt for a black and white only file for sake of a chromogenic RA4 printing paper, or for inkjet output, but those are entirely different.

Analog darkroom black & white prints are the ideal, but Harman makes a dedicated black & white silver gelatin paper for the laser exposure prints from digital files. There are fewer labs, though, that offer prints on this true black & white paper.

Harman GDS paper

"HARMAN GDS... has been designed using the very latest black and white silver halide emulsion technology."

"It has spectral sensitivity and exposure characteristics specially suited to optical digital exposure with tricolour
laser enlarger systems produced by Durst, Océ, Polielettronica and others."

mshchem · Monday at 9:12 PM

bfilm said:
Analog darkroom black & white prints are the ideal, but Harman makes a dedicated black & white silver gelatin paper for the laser exposure prints from digital files. There are fewer labs, though, that offer prints on this true black & white paper.

Harman GDS paper

"HARMAN GDS... has been designed using the very latest black and white silver halide emulsion technology."

"It has spectral sensitivity and exposure characteristics specially suited to optical digital exposure with tricolour
laser enlarger systems produced by Durst, Océ, Polielettronica and others."

Is this stuff still made?

Tariffs and Film and Paper prices

GregY

GregY

GregY

DREW WILEY

Don_ih

mshchem

koraks

Moderator

Don_ih

pentaxuser

Alan Edward Klein

Carnie Bob

bfilm

ChrisGalway

Pieter12

Don_ih

pentaxuser

koraks

Moderator

mshchem

mshchem

GregY

bfilm

bfilm

DREW WILEY

bfilm

mshchem

Tariffs and Film and Paper prices

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency