Tariffs and Film and Paper prices

[gbroadbridge]

My guess is when the crap starts getting bad the tariffs will be abandoned by Congress. They after all have the power to do so.

Perhaps, but supply chains will have changed (it is happening rapidly here).

I am considering buying a couple years worth of film just in case.

The big problem which has already been mentioned is the decrease in demand. That could prove fatal for some things. Prices tend to not go back down either.

There may well be significant fall in demand in some places, but stable or even increased demand elsewhere as some dumping will necessarily occur on perishable product.

 

[djdister]

I guess this could push me back to using Kodak film instead of Ilford, but Ilford would have to get really expensive. Still, my experience with Kodak 120 film that showed shadows of text from the paper backing in the negatives made me wary of Kodak's quality control.

 

[pentaxuser]

It is obvious you're taking sides, which is political. So, I suspect both yours and this post will soon disappear.

I was simply pointing out that Photrio can exert no influence on tariffs and discussion on the elephant, assuming that the elephant to which Chris refers, is the originator of the tariff policy then it is that discussion which is likely to lead to a full scale political discussion which gets the thread locked but achieves nothing in the interim except strife amongst Photrio members

I am truly at a loss to see where my post was political or taking sides but equally sorry that you have interpreted it that way but if that is the way you view it then that's fine also

pentaxuser

 

[pentaxuser]

I guess this could push me back to using Kodak film instead of Ilford, but Ilford would have to get really expensive.

We just have to wait and see what happens to prices from all affected parties . This may not be known for a few weeks yet

pentaxuser

 

[BrianShaw]

We just have to wait and see what happens to prices from all affected parties . This may not be known for a few weeks yet

pentaxuser

This should have peen post #2!

 

[FotoD]

I am truly at a loss to see where my post was political or taking sides

Me too.

 

[MattKing]

I am truly at a loss to see where my post was political or taking sides

Posts about politics and political issues and the like are equally problematic.
If they are mainly about photography, they are okay.

 

[pentaxuser]

This should have peen post #2!

Yes I am always "late to the game" as the phrase in the U.K. goes

pentaxuser

 

[mshchem]

Politics aside

Free markets = better goods at lower prices

Doesn't guarantee that the freedom won't disrupt jobs and livelihoods.

These tariffs will raise prices on all film everywhere.

If the price of product A goes up in most real world situations, the substitute, Product B goes up.

It's a bit like soybean oil vs corn oil.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Kodak's quality control is the best of them all. The brief backing paper incident due to their former sources being unable to supply it any longer analogously affected Ilford too for awhile.

And just like Fuji is now the future of color darkroom paper, Kodak pretty much dominates the destiny of color film. Maybe the Chinese will come up with something suitable for the amateur market outside the US; but it won't satisfy those needing serious quality. Most of the pros have already switched to digital anyway. But that route itself is going to get awfully rough due to steep tariffs on that kind of equipment. Back to cave painting, I guess.

 

[Milpool]

We are not discussing the elephant in the room. 219 posts but we're not allowed by the Moderators to discuss the real problem!

I this case I think elephants everywhere would be extremely insulted. Please leave animals out of this.

 

[Milpool]

Kodak's quality control is the best of them all. The brief backing paper incident due to their former sources being unable to supply it any longer analogously affected Ilford too for awhile.

And just like Fuji is now the future of color darkroom paper, Kodak pretty much dominates the destiny of color film. Maybe the Chinese will come up with something suitable for the amateur market outside the US; but it won't satisfy those needing serious quality. Most of the pros have already switched to digital anyway. But that route itself is going to get awfully rough due to steep tariffs on that kind of equipment. Back to cave painting, I guess.

For me at least when it comes to sheet film it’s Kodak or bust. Since I’m not too far from busted I suspect my LF days are numbered.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Politics aside

Free markets = better goods at lower prices

Doesn't guarantee that the freedom won't disrupt jobs and livelihoods.

These tariffs will raise prices on all film everywhere.

If the price of product A goes up in most real world situations, the substitute, Product B goes up.

It's a bit like soybean oil vs corn oil.

There wont be any increase on the cost of a new camera or new camera phone made in Japan or China for me as I am not burdened by any import tariffs. The same for photographic supplies like film/chemistry made in Europe.

Prices will not increase everywhere as trade routes and settlement methods are changing faster than I envisaged.

 

[FotoD]

Last time the US had tariffs of this caliber was apparently in 1909. I'm assuming it was less of a problem for photographers then as dryplates and carbon or platinum papers were mostly made by the photographer herself or a company closeby.

 

[lecarp]

Well, my Toyo 810m had a lens hanging on it today that looked like a trunk. It felt like an Elephant moving it about today. It will eat me out of house and home if given a chance!
And, I will continue to feed it!

 

[mshchem]

There wont be any increase on the cost of a new camera or new camera phone made in Japan or China for me as I am not burdened by any import tariffs. The same for photographic supplies like film/chemistry made in Europe.

Prices will not increase everywhere as trade routes and settlement methods are changing faster than I envisaged.

The USA has 0% VAT. Iowa, my state adds 6% sales tax. So when I bought my Leica MP a couple years back I was able to buy the camera from a UK dealer, tax free with a vary favorable exchange rate. Ended up costing much less than buying through a US Leica company store.

How this all shakes out is anyone's guess. One thing I feel is pretty sure and certain is it's all going to change.

MHOFWIW

 

[mshchem]

Last time the US had tariffs of this caliber was apparently in 1909. I'm assuming it was less of a problem for photographers then as dryplates and carbon or platinum papers were mostly made by the photographer herself or a company closeby.

 

[Craig]

The other thing to consider is the cost and availability of skilled labour. Right now there is zero expertise in building SLR cameras in the USA, while Japan has considerable experience. I can't imagine that Nikon, Canon et al are considerating building a camera factory in the USA and there is zero skilled workers, and zero infrastructure and supplier support compared to Japan.

Cameras are a shrinking market, it makes no sense for Nikon to double their overhead to build another factory in a foreign country and probably turn building cameras from profitable to unprofitable. Instead, USA consumers will simply have to pay more for cameras.

I expect the same can be said for Harman, there is no way they are building another coating factory to make film and paper.

 

[GregY]

The other thing to consider is the cost and availability of skilled labour. Right now there is zero expertise in building SLR cameras in the USA, while Japan has considerable experience. I can't imagine that Nikon, Canon et al are considerating building a camera factory in the USA and there is zero skilled workers, and zero infrastructure and supplier support compared to Japan.

Cameras are a shrinking market, it makes no sense for Nikon to double their overhead to build another factory in a foreign country and probably turn building cameras from profitable to unprofitable. Instead, USA consumers will simply have to pay more for cameras.

I expect the same can be said for Harman, there is no way they are building another coating factory to make film and paper.

Craig, At the same time, why would Harman or Nikon choose to invest/build in a country with high wages, building costs & unfavourable economic volatility?

 

[gbroadbridge]

The other thing to consider is the cost and availability of skilled labour. Right now there is zero expertise in building SLR cameras in the USA, while Japan has considerable experience. I can't imagine that Nikon, Canon et al are considerating building a camera factory in the USA and there is zero skilled workers, and zero infrastructure and supplier support compared to Japan.

Cameras are a shrinking market, it makes no sense for Nikon to double their overhead to build another factory in a foreign country and probably turn building cameras from profitable to unprofitable. Instead, USA consumers will simply have to pay more for cameras.

I expect the same can be said for Harman, there is no way they are building another coating factory to make film and paper.

The only thing any business would be making in the current climate would be vague and empty promises.

 

[Craig]

Craig, At the same time, why would Harman or Nikon choose to invest/build in a country with high wages, building costs & unfavourable economic volatility?

That too! Plus an unstable political environment is something businesses always try and avoid.

 

[mshchem]

That too! Plus an unstable political environment is something businesses always try and avoid.

Exactly, what kind of lunatic would want to invest with such turmoil.

Unfortunately the core of this discussion is something that can't really be discussed.

That's OK, I'm more than happy to discuss pre-washing film

 

[koraks]

Posts about politics and political issues and the like are equally problematic.
If they are mainly about photography, they are okay.

And on this basis, I did some more pruning.

There's plenty of opportunity on the internet and offline to discuss elephants, rooms, the color orange as well as other colors, and the degree to which markets are free. Photrio just doesn't happen to be among those millions of places.

 

[DevStopFix]

Everything is going to be OK. We've already been through the most inflationary period in my 68 year life. And that's a fact. I'm confident that an equilibrium is at hand on trade deficits and we'll all be better off for it in the long term. Look at it this way... photographic paper prices are presently prohibitive to a paralyzing degree. The only possible direction in that can only be an improvement at this juncture.

Not true regarding most inflationary period. That’s not a fact at all. And the rest of your assertion is notional and speculative.

 

[gary mulder]

Let us face the fact that the photographic industry has a hard time to make itself profitable. Individual countries are good at making different things, based on their own natural resources and willingness to invest in smal scale enterprises. If it's impossible to manufacture where the circumstances are optimal maybe there will be no profit at all.