Tetenal

[mshchem]

Is a well known chemical factory and they produce their own photochemicals. They also acquired "ornano" brand wich Is a very well known and historical photochemical companies here in Italy.
The E6 kit is the long process

This is great news. I hope just hope there's enough business to go around. I think Adox has the best business plan. I have not bought much from them, but seems that everything is being sized correctly. They don't have debt etc.
Tetenal will need to be moving forward with profitable business, fast, if they will continue .

 

[Kino]

I don't think the chemical manufactures will be selling directly to the public. Rather we need to buy from resellers and those that formulate products from bulk chemicals.

Photographer's Formulary
Bostick-Sullivan
Artcraft Chemicals

I don't mix my own photochemistry reagents at home, so I don't have a good list of sources for chemicals made available to the public. Adox is jumping in with both feet?

Bad wording on my part: a list of kits prepared by chemical manufacturers and their availability.

 

[mshchem]

Bellini, how come I've never heard of these guys?. It looks like they make everything and package raw chemicals for formulating solutions.

If Ferrania ever gets color film going they won't need to go far for chemistry.

http://bellinifoto.it/index.php

 

[Martin Rickards]

They don't seem to have much interest outside Italy for their amateur packs. In Spain their official distributor doesn't handle them. The only exception seems to be in the UK, where https://ntphotoworks.com/shop/product-category/chems/bellini-foto-chemistry/ appears to be pushing the brand.

 

[Kirth Gersen]

I have used the Bellini kit. Got it through Nik and Trick (40 mins drive away). They swear by it, and it is slightly cheaper than the Tetenal kit. I didn't get on with it though as the only instructions are for 38C, which I find difficult to control. I asked about timing for 30C but got no reply. Will give another try if Tetenal go under and they come up with timings for 30C.

 

[Schwedenstahl]

I have used the Bellini kit. Got it through Nik and Trick (40 mins drive away). They swear by it, and it is slightly cheaper than the Tetenal kit. I didn't get on with it though as the only instructions are for 38C, which I find difficult to control. I asked about timing for 30C but got no reply. Will give another try if Tetenal go under and they come up with timings for 30C.

We at PhotoKlassik international made some tests with the Bellini Kit vs. the Tetenal 3 Bath Kit. Both are capable for excellent results. The Tetenal 3 bath kit is because of the fact that you need only 3 containers for the chemicals (instead of 6 for the Bellini kit) much less complicated to use and reduces the processing time significantly. Especially for those without a processor thats a very important point.
In Germany the Bellini Kit is difficult to get so Nick & Trick is also a good adress cause they ship also to Germany.

Changing the temperature is always very risky! I would not recommend (personal opinion) the 30°C for both kits.

In our PhotoKlassik International first special edition we described the chemical and technical background of the E6 process in detail.

 

[Kirth Gersen]

Always had good results working at 30°C with Tetenal. Their manual publishes figures for that temp.

 

[Schwedenstahl]

Always had good results working at 30°C with Tetenal. Their manual publishes figures for that temp.

I have no doubt about this. As I said it is a personal opinion!

 

[subsole]

https://petapixel.com/2019/02/01/a-closer-look-at-tetenal-a-photo-firm-thats-too-important-to-fail/

 

[AgX]

I grew up with Tetenal so to say, they were an icon, but the wording "too important to fail" immediately makes me the think the government to subsidize them...
I think many overestimate Tetenal's importance. They have their special abilities but those are not needed for what is discussed here.

 

[AgX]

From that articel at Petapixel:
"An example of non-existent marketing: Many don’t know that Tetenal produces a wide array of superb black and white photographic papers."

Tetenal never manufactured in the true sense photographic paper. At best they had paper produced for them to their specification.

But yes, today their products have a low visibility, but that is true for nearly all film related products, especially lab related ones.
They wanted to spread a broshure but of course that money already was gone.

 

[Schwedenstahl]

From that articel at Petapixel:
"An example of non-existent marketing:

They wanted to spread a broshure but of course that money already was gone.

The brochure about darkroom printing you have mentioned is already printed and available. We had them on our Workshops as handout.

 

[Schwedenstahl]

Tetenal never manufactured in the true sense photographic paper. At best they had paper produced for them to their specification.

This is not relevant who manufacturered what. We don't ask this for Ilford or Kodak. They offered always a wide range of Paper. Fiber and RC. With their brand "WORK by Tetenal" they also offer a very good non multigrad paper for a quite low price mainly targeted for students and schools.

The fiber paper is also available as multigrade. Their paper can be considered as well as ADOX or Ilford of good quality. That is the most important message.

 

[AgX]

The brochure about darkroom printing you have mentioned is already printed and available. We had them on our Workshops as handout.

Where is it available? Not at my camera store (a major one).

 

[Schwedenstahl]

Not at my camera store (a major one).

Write Tetenal an e-mail. It was never ment for sale and as I am informed it is free of charge. I think the marketing department is at the moment not really working. That's the reason why it was not promoted.

 

[AgX]

A broshure about nobody knows that has to be ordered is likely not the best means to get more visibility. You are too young to know but in the past Tetenal had a broshure in kind of newspaper style, with portraits of some of their products and tricks and tips for darkroom work, It was to be picked from photo stores. Amaloco had something similar.
However I have to be fair: Instax was veiled in Germany for about two decades and then suddenly goes off without any classic advertizing attempts, and for sure not at camera stores.
Tetetanal however was in a more difficult situation. Selling instant-fun cameras is something different than making peole even process their films, let alone papers.

 

[Schwedenstahl]

. You are too young to know but in the past Tetenal had a broshure in kind of newspaper style, with portraits of some of their products and tricks and tips for darkroom work, It was to be picked from photo stores.

Don't worry I am quite old still know the old Tetenal brochures and learned a lot out of them. I used also all their creative kits in the late 80ies and early 90ies. They also had always darkroom literature for B&W as well as for Color photography.
The brochure just came out of print a few weeks before the unexpected insolvency started. I worked with Tetenal for a long time on this brochure. The idea was to reach exactly the young generation. Petra Roll from Tetenal marketing was about to spread this just after the Photokina. She lost unfortunatly her job just a few days ago. This is by the way very sad cause she worked at Tetenal her entire worklife, and still knew what was important. Beside that she also knew very well the needs of the film community.

We had already plans with bloggers and influencers world wide to spread the word.

Just made a short video have a look if you like. It contains nearly everything from the first b&w negative development for beginners till RA4 enlarging in your darkroom.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9m9cehxb9cmvfln/20180913_144813.mp4?dl=0

 

[cmacd123]

Just made a short video have a look if you like. It contains nearly everything from the first b&w negative development for beginners till RA4 enlarging in your darkroom.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9m9cehxb9cmvfln/20180913_144813.mp4?dl=0

That is an expensive looking Brochure. they would have to sell a average of a LOT of kits to each customer to earn back the cost

 

[Schwedenstahl]

That is an expensive looking Brochure.

Indeed it is very well printed. The Idea was to give young photographers something of value that could be used as a reference source for a longer periode. That was also the reason not to offer it as a pdf download.
We tried also to focus on the needs of todays generation which does often not have enough space in a small student apartment.

Darkroom printing can be done onn several levels, just for fun as a one time expierience, but also as a long exciting journey. This brochure should give you an easy start but should also give a hint what's possible.

Todays photography is not the same as for example the film photography in the 80ies or 90ies. We have a total different generation that wa born in a digial world. They are exploring analog photography in a total different way.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

https://petapixel.com/2019/02/01/a-closer-look-at-tetenal-a-photo-firm-thats-too-important-to-fail/

I tried to comment on PetaPixel but they kept moving my reply down into the "no one reads this" section. No clue why.
So here´s my sum up from the articles obvious mistakes:

1) Tetenal can manufacture less than 10.000 Liters. 10.000 is their maximum, not their minimum as stated in the article (which is very good)
2) B&W developers cannot be made in tablets (because of their pH- which is unfortunate)
3) Tetenal never manufactured for Kodak, Ilford or Agfa in the heydays. Kodak produced in France, Ilford in Mobberley and Marly and Agfa in Vaihingen. TT took this over after the bankrupcies of the competition which was a smart moove but we shall be historically correct.

Mirko

 

[mshchem]

Would it be reasonable to assume that Bellini sells 6 bath kits because, it manufactures, and packages, these chemicals for large, commercial, 6 bath processing equipment?

 

[Martin Rickards]

Would it be reasonable to assume that Bellini sells 6 bath kits because, it manufactures, and packages, these chemicals for large, commercial, 6 bath processing equipment?

Probably so, because, in Spain at least, that is the only business in which their distributor is interested; they are not interested in the amateur market.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Would it be reasonable to assume that Bellini sells 6 bath kits because, it manufactures, and packages, these chemicals for large, commercial, 6 bath processing equipment?

Some people inquired about "our" RA-4 kit. It has vanished because we did not mix it. Rather we filled it from 200 Liter barrels. The supply dried up due to our supplier exiting the photographic market. We calculated a remanufacture but if we sourced all chemicals and mixed them ourselves we can never compete with TT´s or Fujis current prices. There was another interesting information in the PetaPixel articel. This was also not completely correct but the logic behind it works the same way. If you reach certain thresholds you need to comply with REACH which is a eurocratic monster and prohibitive for most markets and products, especially those who are very competiviely priced as everything in the imaging world is. Chemical regulation leeds in this respect to a natural monoply. In the artilce was disclosed that there is a duopol between TT and Fuji on the CD´s because they shared the REACH registration. This makes me wonder how others do it. They either manufacture small amounts and will be limited in growth/economies of scale or are tapped onto TT. In my opinion one can never really compete. This is a nice asset in TT.
So in a nutshell: The ADOX´s, Bellinis and others can secure supply for all amateurs and enthusiasts but only TT and Fuji can make enough color chemistry for all large finishers. This is why we need them and this is -among personal reasons- why ADOX will do everything to support TT in this respect rather than "taking a chance" in C-41/E-6 now.

Mirko

 

[Ian Grant]

2) B&W developers cannot be made in tablets (because of their pH- which is unfortunate),
Mirko

Burroughs Wellcome made "Tabloid" developers of various types and sold them for a few decades, so it can be done. The way around the pH issue is to use a pair of tablets. Of course being primarily a drug company they had plenty of experience of packaging products as tablets.

Ian

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

The way around the pH issue is to use a pair of tablets.

Interesting solution
Anyways the way it was put in the article seemed incorrect to me.