Tetenal

[blockend]

In an era when anything old fashioned is sold hard as cool and boutique - with a price to match - it's good to find a company that packages their products in plain cardboard with black and white labels. It's why I like Tetenal, Foma and the late, great Orwo films.

 

[CMoore]

In an era when anything old fashioned is sold hard as cool and boutique - with a price to match - it's good to find a company that packages their products in plain cardboard with black and white labels. It's why I like Tetenal, Foma and the late, great Orwo films.

Hear Hear.....

 

[miha]

In September they kind of revived that idea by publishing this broshure. However I wonder where to find it. So far I only found it at their website. And only by going into their blog. And that I only found by accident. At their homepage is not the slightest hint at the blog, not even at the site map...

https://blog.tetenal.de/news/sonderdruck-best-of-classics/#more-3516

I have missed this post, nice brochure, thanks. Anything new on TT worth posting?

 

[AgX]

I guess I'll never see that broshure in print ( independant of Tenenal's financial situation).

No, no news from Tetenal themselves, but a competing distributor of ink-jet papers publically stated a week ago that there are meanwhile severe difficulties for Tetenal clients to obtain papers from Tetenal, reason would be that now a managing trustee is in charge (as I reported above).

 

[Nzoomed]

If tenenal goes under, i guess Kodak and Ferrania can pick up the pieces, both companies will be wanting to sell E6 chemistry anyway

 

[cmacd123]

If tenenal goes under, i guess Kodak and Ferrania can pick up the pieces, both companies will be wanting to sell E6 chemistry anyway

Since there are fairly strong hints that BOTH Kodak and Ilford use Tenenal as a contract manufacturer for their major chemistry line, they would both be scrambling to qualify another supplier. E-6 home kits are incidental to the market. UNICOLOR probably has that little nice under control.

 

[AgX]

What Nzoomed seemingly meant was that Kodak and Ferrania should take over that part of theTetenal production facility.

But Tetenal has no special equipment aside that for special conversions (granules, tablets), which likely would not be of interest. In most cases there is no need of special expertise either.
Their plant makes/made sense in overall cost effectiveness. Otherwise Kodak and Harman would not have them produce for them. Taking over a part of the facility or some of the equipment in that context would not make much sense with still competitors to Tetenal around.

 

[wyofilm]

Where is/are Tetenal's film chemistries produced?

 

[MattKing]

Where is/are Tetenal's film chemistries produced?

If I understand things correctly, Germany.

 

[wyofilm]

If I understand things correctly, Germany.

Thanks! I was wondering if production had moved to China and what that might mean.

 

[AgX]

Where is/are Tetenal's film chemistries produced?

At their own plant in Germany.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'd like to go back to one of the earlier posts in this thread. Where someone said that one of Tetenal's major supplier's could not supply them for several months with one of their main products. This product being color RA4 paper made by Kodak Alaris. I was under the impression this product was made by Alaris or by Carestream Health (former Kodak Healthcare and maker of X-Ray films, according to some myths makes all of Kodak's production emulsions under contract from Alaris). Does this foretell a problem with Alaris?

 

[mnemosyne]

I'd like to go back to one of the earlier posts in this thread. Where someone said that one of Tetenal's major supplier's could not supply them for several months with one of their main products. This product being color RA4 paper made by Kodak Alaris.

What was said is that it is unclear which of the several paper products they distribute caused the problem. Also we do not know, if the supplier could not supply them or would not supply them. What I means is, it may well be that the supplier required payment terms Tetenal could not meet because of their difficult financial situation.

We should also note, that while Tetenal does apparently produce chemistry for Kodak, AFAIK it is only the black and white chemistry. The Kodak color chemistry I haved had my hands on in recent years (mainly Flexicolor and Ektacolor kits) was all manufactured by Kodak Wuxi in the PR China.

 

[Wallendo]

I'd like to go back to one of the earlier posts in this thread. Where someone said that one of Tetenal's major supplier's could not supply them for several months with one of their main products. This product being color RA4 paper made by Kodak Alaris. I was under the impression this product was made by Alaris or by Carestream Health (former Kodak Healthcare and maker of X-Ray films, according to some myths makes all of Kodak's production emulsions under contract from Alaris). Does this foretell a problem with Alaris?

I have no personal knowledge of the situation, but it is hard for me to believe that KA was unable to supply paper to its sole European distributor without the shortage being discussed on Photrio.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Matt,
probably due to my horrible English I may have not been precise enough.
Tetenal explained in their letter adressed to their business partners that one major problem has been that a "color paper manufacturer" could not supply them for about five months. They don't mention a name. Tetenal is active in distributing both traditional silver-halide color paper (RA-4 process) and inkjet paper. Concerning silver-halide color paper they are distributor of Kodak Alaris paper.
But there is no official statement from them which supplier had the problems.

Best regards,
Henning

This post says it was a color paper product, and it was a could not issue. Perhaps Tentenal was lying to their shareholders about whether it was a could not/would not issue, but if we assume they are a trustworthy source and RA4 paper makes up a significant portion of their business -- which it probably is if they are the sole supplier in Europe -- then I think it is reasonable to worry.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I'd like to go back to one of the earlier posts in this thread. Where someone said that one of Tetenal's major supplier's could not supply them for several months with one of their main products. This product being color RA4 paper made by Kodak Alaris. I was under the impression this product was made by Alaris or by Carestream Health (former Kodak Healthcare and maker of X-Ray films, according to some myths makes all of Kodak's production emulsions under contract from Alaris). Does this foretell a problem with Alaris?

It may well be because Kodak shrank production of RA4 paper from both Harrow & Windsor to the Windsor site only. Apparently Fuji Europe has significantly shrunk production of RA4 too - and production transitions will always prioritise the availability of the manufacturer's own branded product rather than a third party rebrand.

 

[Berri]

It may well be because Kodak shrank production of RA4 paper from both Harrow & Windsor to the Windsor site only. Apparently Fuji Europe has significantly shrunk production of RA4 too - and production transitions will always prioritise the availability of the manufacturer's own branded product rather than a third party rebrand.

The londoL plant closed down years ago. RA4 paper is manufactured in USA now. In Italy it is nearly impossible to find Kodak paper, everybody stock Fuji. Years ago everybody was using Kodak paper.

 

[AgX]

The Kodak color chemistry I haved had my hands on in recent years (mainly Flexicolor and Ektacolor kits) was all manufactured by Kodak Wuxi in the PR China.

Shipping chemical blends, that easily could be made in Europe, over from China seems crazy to me. But we are living in a crazy world and I bettter not ask what is in all these cointainers in all these harbours. Let alone airplanes...

 

[Lachlan Young]

The londoL plant closed down years ago. RA4 paper is manufactured in USA now. In Italy it is nearly impossible to find Kodak paper, everybody stock Fuji. Years ago everybody was using Kodak paper.

It was two years ago - it should also be noted that Tetenal also sells Fuji papers too, and that nowhere in this thread has anyone worked out who it was who could not supply them with paper. It may well turn out to be a popular Crystal Archive product that was the problem. Or it may have been due to something like a substrate supply issue, not anything about business relationships - one of the most important, but often overlooked aspects of photo paper making is the supply of adequate base material.

 

[AgX]

...nowhere in this thread has anyone worked out who it was who could not supply them with paper.

Indeed.
But a weak point likely is this

Since 2004 Tetenal is distributor for Kodak colour papers. Since 2016 sole Europe distributor for these.

 

[fdonadio]

I have no personal knowledge of the situation, but it is hard for me to believe that KA was unable to supply paper to its sole European distributor without the shortage being discussed on Photrio.

Maybe I’m wrong, but i believe most active Photrio members print only black and white. Or, put in a different way, just a few active Photrio members print color.

From what I know, color paper is still sold mainly to labs, in rolls made to work with mini labs and such. I guess Kodak doesn’t even offer color paper in cut sheets anymore.

 

[AgX]

Tetenal's business consultant stated that Tetenal over many years in vain tried to save the company.
Now they try to use other than classic ways to restructure the company. By not following hierarchies but just relying on innovative potentials and free thinking of everyone in the company, people who know that this is their last chance as he put it.

The managing trustee stated his hope the potential investors may be attracted by that innovative potential. But he also called the situation extremely difficult, due to lack of money.

Both emphazised that maybe a Tetenal with a complete different business model may emerge, if at all.

Except for this all confirming what I wrote on this so far (and on what I was strongly critizised): nothing concrete...

 

[Berri]

Maybe I’m wrong, but i believe most active Photrio members print only black and white. Or, put in a different way, just a few active Photrio members print color.

From what I know, color paper is still sold mainly to labs, in rolls made to work with mini labs and such. I guess Kodak doesn’t even offer color paper in cut sheets anymore.

I am one of the few who prints colour. Paper comes indeed only in rolls from the manufacturers, but luckily enough it is easily available in cut sheets (at least in europe) at most online dealers. You can buy Fuji or Kodak in any size.
I must say though, that I do not buy Tetenal RA4 as it is much more expensive then other brands.

 

[Nzoomed]

Since there are fairly strong hints that BOTH Kodak and Ilford use Tenenal as a contract manufacturer for their major chemistry line, they would both be scrambling to qualify another supplier. E-6 home kits are incidental to the market. UNICOLOR probably has that little nice under control.

Im pretty sure that Kodak was producing e6 chemistry, and they certainly have the resources to produce it.
I remember them announcing that they would still continue to produce E6 chemicals and that it was only the film being discontinued.
Then shortly after E100D was dropped (this is still speculated to be the same film as E100G) Kodak then announced that they would discontinue the processing chemistry.
So it appears they were making the chemistry.

As far as Fuji goes, im assuming they still produce E6 chemicals?

 

[Nzoomed]

It was two years ago - it should also be noted that Tetenal also sells Fuji papers too, and that nowhere in this thread has anyone worked out who it was who could not supply them with paper. It may well turn out to be a popular Crystal Archive product that was the problem. Or it may have been due to something like a substrate supply issue, not anything about business relationships - one of the most important, but often overlooked aspects of photo paper making is the supply of adequate base material.

Are you saying that tetenal is the company that is making fuji Crystal Archive?
This stuff is supposed to be the next best thing to cibachrome as far as fade resistance goes.