The definitive word (I hope) on color stabilzers!

Rudeofus · Apr 24, 2015

Just for the record: I had a conversation with Simon Galley from Ilford regarding Ilfotol and C-41 STAB. His statements can be summarized as:

Yes, Ilfotol does contain a biostat, and it is the compound I identified as such
The purpose of this compound in Ilfotol is to protect Ilfotol concentrate, not film treated with Ilfotol working solution
The concentration of this compound reflects this, and properly mixed Ilfotol working solution would likely not stop germ growth.
Ilford neither recommends nor endorses Ilfotol for this application.

My personal experience with Ilfotol is, that it works very well if used together with Formalin instead of Photoflo in (there was a url link here which no longer exists), but obviously I have no credible long term data to back up my claim.

rbultman · Aug 7, 2015

Is the recipe for stabilizer given by PE in the OP meant to be used one-shot? I recently got the Arista E-6 kit for my first foray into home E-6 and noticed it does not include stabilizer. It seems like making stabilizer is the cheapest route since I already have the kit, as opposed to buying a new kit with stabilizer like the Tetenal.

Thanks,
Rob

Photo Engineer · Aug 7, 2015

The stabilizer is not one-shot. You can use it to the extent of most of the C41 chemistry and then some. It is quite stable.

PE

rbultman · Aug 7, 2015

Good to know. Although the 37% formalin is somewhat expensive (~$18/500mL), reuse makes it quite economical. Assuming 15 rolls/L of working solution, works out to $0.024 per roll. Seems like cheap insurance.

Regards,
Rob

Truzi · Aug 7, 2015

Since it contains surfactant, could this home-mixed stabilizer be used on B&W film? (In an effort to reduce the number of solutions at hand.)

Photo Engineer · Aug 7, 2015

Yes, but it is wasteful.

PE

mts · Aug 8, 2015

I have long used the same stabilizer for both B&W where only wetting agent is really needed and for C-41 and E-6, mostly for convenience of storage. Stabilizer does last a long time. Discard it when you no longer smell formalin odor. Considering how long it lasts it is not very wasteful at all.

Photo Engineer · Aug 8, 2015

Using any color stabilizer or final rinse on B&W products is wasteful of the active ingredient. Considering whether to do it or how much use it could take if you did do it is not wasteful.

PE

Truzi · Aug 8, 2015

My interest in stabilizer is renewed since I think I've finally gotten the hang of Photo Flo solutions for B&W (in other words, finally no spots or residue - I'm quite pleased with myself). My procrastination on C-41 processing is nearing its end.

I can easily track the amount of film I've used in a solution, but I don't process often, so am more concerned with the the solutions going bad before they reach capacity (though I suspect a solution containing Formalin will last a long time). I've mixed D-76 in the past, and used it so infrequently that I saw precipitate form, then disappear, in a repeating cycle (completely full, sealed, unused bottles with consistent storage temperatures). It may have been fine, but I didn't trust it - so disposed of it. Longevity is the sole reason I've started playing with T-Max and HC-110 concentrates (Diafine and Rodinal I've played with to see what they are like).
I've formed quite an appreciation for HC-110.

Clips tests for developer, fix, and bleach seem easy enough (though I know there are shortcomings).
How accurate is it to base a judgment on the odor of a formalin stabilizer?
Is there any good test of a Photo Flo solution other than noticing the dried film has spots?

I've searched and read APUG extensively, but as you know, consensus can be difficult to reach for some things. In these cases, there are a few here to whom I defer.
PE, if I do something contrary to what you suggest, it is either experimentation or out of necessity (or laziness). I do not question your experience and expertise, and try to follow your advice as closely I am able.

Photo Engineer · Aug 8, 2015

It is hard to judge the capacity of a stabilizer or final rinse as the bad results often don't show up for years and years. And, the results depend on keeping conditions.

So, I have no advice to give except to say that these solutions are so inexpensive to make, compared to those used in the rest of the process, that it is hardly worth worrying about. Just mix up a fresh batch.

Actually, mixing one up is so bothersome to me at this point, I just order some premixed.

PE

Rudeofus · Aug 8, 2015

When it comes to STAB capacity, the limits come not necessarily from depletion of its active agents, but actually from carry over from wash water. Most people mix STAB with deionized water to prevent water marks, yet the preceding wash steps are usually carried out with regular tap water. Given that a film tank for 120 format roll film carries over between 10 and 20 ml of previous liquid per process run, I would discard STAB in sync with FD and CD, and even earlier when STAB gets this dreaded pink coloration or when water marks show up on processed film strips.

Truzi · Aug 8, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
It is hard to judge the capacity of a stabilizer or final rinse as the bad results often don't show up for years and years.

Thanx, that is valuable advice. I keep forgetting that problems may not show up for a long time. Even if I mess up the developing, as long as I get some sort of images, I want them to last. I have 500ml of Photo Flo 200 and one liter of 37% formalin, and as you point out, they were not expensive. It's best I don't push the capacity, as I cannot know for sure when efficacy is compromised.

When I finally start processing color I will collect my film and develop in spurts (a few times a year) - at least until I feel some confidence in not having to use an whole 1-liter kit in one session (that procrastination thing in regard to shelf-life). This means about 3 to 6 months between color sessions, at least initially. I do B&W about once a month, so could use left-over stabilizer with that, since it won't hurt and it's failure shouldn't cause long-term problems. It may be wasteful of the formalin, but for these reasons will probably be less overall waste for my situation.

I have one of those aerating film washers that attaches to a faucet, and have recently begun using distilled water for all my solutions (though obviously not in the washer). I have moved to stainless steel, so have designated one of my plastic tanks for Photo Flo solution - fewer foam problems when I dip the reels as opposed to pouring over the reels.

In the distant past I had only developed B&W as part of (2) photography classes. The reason I recently got into B&W (circa 2010) was merely as a preparation for doing my own color; though it has given me a true appreciation of B&W, and I certainly intend to continue with it. Even after getting up to speed with B&W, there was no way I was going to attempt color until I could defeat water spots and residue. This indirectly makes stabilizer the penultimate piece of the puzzle for me.

Trainmaster · Aug 16, 2015

Thanks so much for posting this. I can now enjoy my cheapo Arista kit!

barzune · Aug 17, 2015

I have just found a source for formalin, which will deliver to Canada by surface shipping:

http://www.sciencecompany.com/Search.aspx?k=formalin

barzune · Aug 24, 2015

A question for PE:

I have yet to try developing C41, but I've accumulated both kits, and separately some Kodak chemistry for the purpose.
One of the individual solutions that I have is Kodak Flexicolour Final Rinse and Replenisher (CAT 813 6368)
The ingredients do NOT include Formalin.

1- Should I forget this compound, and use the formula for Stabilizer, which you've provided;

2- Should I add the appropriate amount of Formalin to this compound;

3- Would it be useful to treat the film with BOTH, the Final Rinse, then the Stabilizer;

or 4- Do you have any other suggestions?

I have, by the way, a supply of Photoflo 200, and a half-litre of Formalin 37% on hand.

A lot of my colour film is pre-2000 bulk film (both Kodak and Agfa), stored in the deep-freezer.

While I've read this, and several other, streams, several times, this is a whole new area of venture for me, and I appreciate your advice, before I get off on the wrong track.

Dan

Photo Engineer · Aug 24, 2015

Dan:

C41 films made before about 2000 need formalin but those after that date do not!

ALL E6 films need formalin somewhere in the process.

No color or B&W film will suffer from the use of formalin, but old C41 films and all E6 films will suffer from a lack of formalin.

PE

barzune · Aug 24, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
Dan:

C41 films made before about 2000 need formalin but those after that date do not!

ALL E6 films need formalin somewhere in the process.

No color or B&W film will suffer from the use of formalin, but old C41 films and all E6 films will suffer from a lack of formalin.

PE

PE:

Thanks for the quick reply!

What I'll do, then, is add 10 ml/Lit of Formalin to the working solution of Final Rinse?
Any problems with that?

Dan

Photo Engineer · Aug 24, 2015

I did not say that.

IDK what the chemical used in the final rinse will do when mixed with Formalin. It might not be good, so please do not interpret me.

PE

barzune · Aug 24, 2015

I apologize for my misunderstanding.
I'll best use your formula for Stabilizer (PhotoFlo + formalin) for pre-2000 film, rather than the Final Rinse.
Thank you for clarifying.

Dan

Dcarubia · Sep 2, 2015

It's been years since I devloped E6 film. I used a 3 bath process at the time (around 2004/2005 time frame).

Film developed was from 2001 and before.

Just for insurance, should I go back to these developed films and bathe them with PE's formalin stabilizer mix?

DC

Photo Engineer · Sep 2, 2015

YES.

Eventually, they will fade without formalin treatment. This is true of all E6 films even unto today.

PE

mts · Sep 3, 2015

And so will I, even with formalin treatment.

Joel_L · Sep 4, 2015

Is the 37% formaldehyde solution I find for aquariums going to work for this or will it have other ingredients that are harmful for film? I did find some other formalin solutions but they had 15% methanol. What should I be looking for?

Thanks

Joel

Truzi · Sep 4, 2015

I've read a number of APUG threads on this, and I think it is fine, but wait for someone else to weigh in, as I don't know that much.

There are other places to find it. I got some Formalin from Amazon or ebay, and it was not very expensive. It came sealed in nice amber glass bottles.

Photo Engineer · Sep 4, 2015

IDK if aquarium formalin is suitable.

PE

The definitive word (I hope) on color stabilzers!

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