The myth of smoothness of leicas

[250swb]

How about we agree that whoever wants to to preventive CLAs with their gear can do so, and whoever want to wait and see until a piece of gear breaks, can also do so? These two approaches can co-exist peacefully.

Do you know what CLA means, it mean Clean, Lube, and Adjust, it doesn't mean repair or even repair in anticipation. So it's very easy to throw around 'oh your camera or lens needs a CLA' when in reality if adjustments aren't needed and there's nothing to repair it's a waste of money.

 

[Axelwik]

Do you know what CLA means, it mean Clean, Lube, and Adjust, it doesn't mean repair or even repair in anticipation. So it's very easy to throw around 'oh your camera or lens needs a CLA' when in reality if adjustments aren't needed and there's nothing to repair it's a waste of money.

About 90% of the time a camera or lens "repair" is nothing more than a CLA - typically no broken parts to replace. The most common failure is dried out and/or sticky lubricants that aren't doing their job anymore and need to be replaced, hence disassembly, cleaning of the components, reassembly with new and proper lubrication, and adjustment as necessary. In short, a CLA restores the function of the camera or lens. The old organic lubricants (whale oil in some cases) can't be expected to last forever and tend to gum up the works. Modern synthetic lubricants will probably last longer.

Up to the photographer when he/she wants to get this done. Recently my old Leica iiif was starting to give me inconsistent shutter speeds. Took it to a friend/technician who specializes in screw and M mount Leicas and watched while he did a CLA. That's all it needed. Now the camera is smoother than it ever has been since I had it. He also maintains my large format shutters/lenses.I've never had to buy a part - it's always been a CLA to get things working again.

 

[chuckroast]

About 90% of the time a camera or lens "repair" is nothing more than a CLA - typically no broken parts to replace. The most common failure is dried out and/or sticky lubricants that aren't doing their job anymore and need to be replaced, hence disassembly, cleaning of the components, reassembly with new and proper lubrication, and adjustment as necessary. In short, a CLA restores the function of the camera or lens. The old organic lubricants (whale oil in some cases) can't be expected to last forever and tend to gum up the works. Modern synthetic lubricants will probably last longer.

Up to the photographer when he/she wants to get this done. Recently my old Leica iiif was starting to give me inconsistent shutter speeds. Took it to a friend/technician who specializes in screw and M mount Leicas and watched while he did a CLA. That's all it needed. Now the camera is smoother than it ever has been since I had it. He also maintains my large format shutters/lenses.I've never had to buy a part - it's always been a CLA to get things working again.

I have a IIIf, M2, and M5 all of which have been CLAed within the last year. Why? Because the people who know how to do this are dwindling in numbers and parts are getting harder to get (depending on the part). By having the cameras tuned and checked (mine needed no new parts other than some vulcanite replacement), I am reasonably well assured that they will last the remainder of my photographic life.

A quality machine like a Leica or Nikon doesn't need a CLA frequently, but the cameras in question were made in 1955, 1961, and 1974 respectively and it didn't seem excessive to have a great repair person (YYE for the IIIf and DAG for the Ms) go through them. They are all now pretty much whisper quiet and run flawlessly.

 

[brbo]

About 90% of the time a camera or lens "repair" is nothing more than a CLA - typically no broken parts to replace. The most common failure is dried out and/or sticky lubricants that aren't doing their job anymore and need to be replaced, hence disassembly, cleaning of the components, reassembly with new and proper lubrication, and adjustment as necessary. In short, a CLA restores the function of the camera or lens. The old organic lubricants (whale oil in some cases) can't be expected to last forever and tend to gum up the works. Modern synthetic lubricants will probably last longer.

Up to the photographer when he/she wants to get this done. Recently my old Leica iiif was starting to give me inconsistent shutter speeds. Took it to a friend/technician who specializes in screw and M mount Leicas and watched while he did a CLA. That's all it needed. Now the camera is smoother than it ever has been since I had it. He also maintains my large format shutters/lenses.I've never had to buy a part - it's always been a CLA to get things working again.

You were sooooooo lucky.

If you'd read this thread earlier you'd have known that cameras are designed to be serviced regularly or else there will be far more catastrophic failures (broken parts, stripped gears...) if you wait until you can see/feel something is wrong with the camera.

 

[Axelwik]

You were sooooooo lucky.

If you'd read this thread earlier you'd have known that cameras are designed to be serviced regularly or else there will be far more catastrophic failures (broken parts, stripped gears...) if you wait until you can see/feel something is wrong with the camera.

If it's a camera that I depend on and don't know its history, then I'll have it serviced (I don't buy many new cameras anymore). Most of my Leica and Hasselblad cameras fit into this category, as well as the large format lenses/shutters that get regular use.

If it's a camera that I don't depend on (not taking it on an expensive international trip for example), then it gets put aside at the first sign of trouble, then maybe it will get serviced as funds become available (or my camera tech has time - his primary business is watchmaker).

Not everything fits into a neat category, but when I depend on something, such as my M2 on a recent trip to Australia and Papua New Guinea, you better believe it's been serviced within the last 5 or so years.

 

[Axelwik]

I have a IIIf, M2, and M5 all of which have been CLAed within the last year. Why? Because the people who know how to do this are dwindling in numbers and parts are getting harder to get (depending on the part). By having the cameras tuned and checked (mine needed no new parts other than some vulcanite replacement), I am reasonably well assured that they will last the remainder of my photographic life.

A quality machine like a Leica or Nikon doesn't need a CLA frequently, but the cameras in question were made in 1955, 1961, and 1974 respectively and it didn't seem excessive to have a great repair person (YYE for the IIIf and DAG for the Ms) go through them. They are all now pretty much whisper quiet and run flawlessly.

Yep, the old lubricants do wear out, dry out, and gum up the works. I think a proper CLA with modern and proper lubricants applied sparingly only where they are needed on freshly cleaned parts will help a camera or lens function properly for a very long time.

Of course the cloth shutter curtains in Leicas need replacement once in a while; sometimes age, other times carless photographers who point their lenses at the sun or physically damage them in some way - I suspect that there are very few LTM Leicas with their original curtains.

 

[chuckroast]

Yep, the old lubricants do wear out, dry out, and gum up the works. I think a proper CLA with modern and proper lubricants applied sparingly only where they are needed on freshly cleaned parts will help a camera or lens function properly for a very long time.

Of course the cloth shutter curtains in Leicas need replacement once in a while; sometimes age, other times carless photographers who point their lenses at the sun or physically damage them in some way - I suspect that there are very few LTM Leicas with their original curtains.

I have done some basic CLA type work on other cameras and my consistent experience is that they more often need (C)leaning, than (L)ubing, or (A)dusting. A judicious application of naptha to flush out old grunge often brings old mechanisms back into fine fighting form.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Question from a technical layman with two left hands:

Why would one NOT remove dust or old oil from a delicate thing such a fine camera?!

 

[Axelwik]

I have done some basic CLA type work on other cameras and my consistent experience is that they more often need (C)leaning, than (L)ubing, or (A)dusting. A judicious application of naptha to flush out old grunge often brings old mechanisms back into fine fighting form.

Flushing with a solvent might do more harm than good. Sure, it might get it working temporarily, but probably not the best way to do it.

 

[chuckroast]

Flushing with a solvent might do more harm than good. Sure, it might get it working temporarily, but probably not the best way to do it.

I wouldn't describe it as "flushing". It's a very light application to the affected area. I actually learned about doing this from talking to Frank Marshman.

You're right, it's not a real or permanent fix in some cases, but it others, it works really well.

 

[warden]

I have a IIIf, M2, and M5 all of which have been CLAed within the last year. Why? Because the people who know how to do this are dwindling in numbers and parts are getting harder to get (depending on the part). By having the cameras tuned and checked (mine needed no new parts other than some vulcanite replacement), I am reasonably well assured that they will last the remainder of my photographic life.

A quality machine like a Leica or Nikon doesn't need a CLA frequently, but the cameras in question were made in 1955, 1961, and 1974 respectively and it didn't seem excessive to have a great repair person (YYE for the IIIf and DAG for the Ms) go through them. They are all now pretty much whisper quiet and run flawlessly.

Same here. When I bought my Yashicamat LM (and quickly fell in love with that lens) I wanted it serviced by Mark Hama asap because he assembled Yashicamats back in the day and was near retirement age. It’ll likely not need service again in my lifetime and works perfectly thanks to Mr. Hama.

 

[chuckroast]

Same here. When I bought my Yashicamat LM (and quickly fell in love with that lens) I wanted it serviced by Mark Hama asap because he assembled Yashicamats back in the day and was near retirement age. It’ll likely not need service again in my lifetime and works perfectly thanks to Mr. Hama.

Odd you should mention him. I have this pretty much flawless Yashica MAT-124G that was developing a very slight case of haze and had a flakey meter. It was- and is otherwise pretty much like new. He just went through it and did a CLA, lens cleanup, and meter tune up so it really is like new.

Sadly, I do not use it enough to justify owning the camera so I think it's going to go out with the next thinning of the herd...

 

[warden]

Odd you should mention him. I have this pretty much flawless Yashica MAT-124G that was developing a very slight case of haze and had a flakey meter. It was- and is otherwise pretty much like new. He just went through it and did a CLA, lens cleanup, and meter tune up so it really is like new.

Sadly, I do not use it enough to justify owning the camera so I think it's going to go out with the next thinning of the herd...

My LM is one of my least used MF cameras (love the lens, don’t love the TLR way of doing things) but I always like the images it makes, and hey it doesn’t take up that much space on the shelf.