Tutorial - 70mm Film to 120/220/620: A Guide on Hand-Rolling Medium Format Film (with PICTURES!)

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
197,366
Messages
2,757,968
Members
99,471
Latest member
jetttt
Recent bookmarks
0
OP
OP

MCB18

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 16, 2023
Messages
824
Location
Colorado
Format
Medium Format
Could some one explain all the reasons for having back paper on roll film instead for possibility to load roll in to the camera on the light?
Assuming that emulsion and film base in most cases are similar on the rolls and 35 mm film, so does it without back paper makes problems in film transport in the camera or it is connected with reflection of back light from the door and other parts in the camera?
I have seen examples of Agfa aviphot PE 200 and to me it promises a lot, but it looks to me like it was shoot on the moon, more like film for astronauts, astrophot.
What we can do instead using filters to avoid unnatural tonality or it is inherent for IR emulsions?

If I understand your question, you are asking why paper is all along the back of 120 film, instead of only having paper at the beginning and end of the roll. Well, when 120 was introduced, roll film formats were all like that. You had paper to protect the film, and to keep the camera’s simple, they simply put numbers on the backing paper that users would manually wind to.

A lot of the more recent 120 cameras do it automatically. But some, like Holgas and other inexpensive cameras, still use it. Without the paper, the window would ruin the film, which is not good at all. Some people like these types of cameras. I personally don’t, as I find the numbers hard to see.

However, your idea is definitely not unwarranted. There is a rollfilm format with paper only at the ends. It is 220 film. It makes it so that you can fit twice as much film into each roll, but you must have a more complex mechanism for transporting the film, as the red window cannot be used. A lot of people here also miss it, as almost no one is making it at a large scale anymore. And it seems like there are very few people that even bother to make it for themselves.

As for Aviphot 200 and it looking strange, I’m not sure what specifically you mean. I have used it as a normal black and white film, and it looks fine. You could definitely try adding a filter meant to add/reduce contrast of B&W film, but this is a personal taste.

Anyway, hope this answers your questions!
 

svetoklik

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2023
Messages
48
Location
Bg
Format
Medium Format
If I understand your question, you are asking why paper is all along the back of 120 film, instead of only having paper at the beginning and end of the roll. Well, when 120 was introduced, roll film formats were all like that. You had paper to protect the film, and to keep the camera’s simple, they simply put numbers on the backing paper that users would manually wind to.

A lot of the more recent 120 cameras do it automatically. But some, like Holgas and other inexpensive cameras, still use it. Without the paper, the window would ruin the film, which is not good at all. Some people like these types of cameras. I personally don’t, as I find the numbers hard to see.

However, your idea is definitely not unwarranted. There is a rollfilm format with paper only at the ends. It is 220 film. It makes it so that you can fit twice as much film into each roll, but you must have a more complex mechanism for transporting the film, as the red window cannot be used. A lot of people here also miss it, as almost no one is making it at a large scale anymore. And it seems like there are very few people that even bother to make it for themselves.

As for Aviphot 200 and it looking strange, I’m not sure what specifically you mean. I have used it as a normal black and white film, and it looks fine. You could definitely try adding a filter meant to add/reduce contrast of B&W film, but this is a personal taste.

Anyway, hope this answers your questions!

Thank you for your answer, I will go in experiment without paper and make modifications on red window if there is need for it. If aviphot looks good directly to you than there is possibility to gain tonality with different developers and dilutions. I will post it here in next week.
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6,652
Format
35mm
My Aviphot came in. I'll have to dig up an IR filter at some point. Sending a test roll through my M645 right now @ ISO 200.
 

Nicholas Lindan

Advertiser
Advertiser
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
4,211
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Format
Multi Format
A small caveat. Some adhesive tapes are tribo-electric,

I think all adhesive tapes are triboluminescent. Do it right and you can have cold-fusion right on your darkroom bench (er, stretching things a bit):

 

svetoklik

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2023
Messages
48
Location
Bg
Format
Medium Format
Do it right

X-rays tape aginst Alienphot.

1675840228416.png
 

Daniela

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
997
Location
France
Format
Multi Format

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6,652
Format
35mm
Here's some Aviphot 200 shot @ 200 developed in D-76 1:1 for 14 min. This was the first roll off the reel, I assume the mottling should clear up further on into the reel. I hope. I used a Mamiya M645 80mm 2.8

Ejag0Ig.jpg

pTq5DRf.jpg

A3oSjIB.jpg

aENCsOL.jpg


I rolled this up by hand. It has potential.
 

blee1996

Subscriber
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,080
Location
SF Bay Area, California
Format
Multi Format
A few photos of classic manual cameras from the 70mm Aviphot Aero film.

Kiev 4 with Jupiter 8M lens - Linhof_Xenar150f45_Aviphot_016 by Zheng, on Flickr

Voigtlander Prominent with Skoparon 35/3.5 lens - Linhof_Xenar150f45_Aviphot_008 by Zheng, on Flickr

Ikoflex Ia TLR with Novar 75/3.5 lens - Linhof_Xenar150f45_Aviphot_002 by Zheng, on Flickr

I was trying to test two things:

1) Agfa Aviphot Aero 200 film, which is unperforated and comes in 150 feet rolls. I shot the film at ISO 100, but forgot to factor in the bellows extension due to macro distance. So overall I could use 1 stop more of exposure. But otherwise, the negatives looks quite healthy with nice contrast.

2) Graflex GH-50 roll film back for 70mm film. I got the later lever version which has two soft foam rollers that can work with unperforated 70mm film. It worked quite well: kept the film flat, and produced even spacing. The spacing is a bit bigger than Pentax 6x7, so I cut the film into 2 frames per strip. This works fine with scanner carrier and film storage sleeves.

Technical info:

- Camera: Linhof Tech V
- Lens: Schneider Xenar 150mm f/4.5
- Film back: Graflex GH-50
- Film: Agfa Aviphot Aero 200
- Development: Clayton F76+, 1+9, 7min@68F
- Scanning: Epson V700 with Epson Scan
- PostPro: Adobe Lightroom
 

blee1996

Subscriber
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,080
Location
SF Bay Area, California
Format
Multi Format
@Cholentpot look at the indoor photo of the coffee mug from you: the grain on the wall is very similar to the grain on my recent photos. The grain texture seems unique to Aviphot, and a bit different from every other B&W film I have used in the past.
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6,652
Format
35mm
@Cholentpot look at the indoor photo of the coffee mug from you: the grain on the wall is very similar to the grain on my recent photos. The grain texture seems unique to Aviphot, and a bit different from every other B&W film I have used in the past.

I don't think it's grain. I think it's mottling. The photo of the laundry room and chair are smooth, no evidence of the mottled look. Unless the acts like this when under exposed. That would make more sense.
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6,652
Format
35mm
From which date it is?

Just about the same time. I'm going to chew through a few more rolls. Experience has shown that the first few yards tend to be a little messed up. And if it's all like that I'll embrace it, it's cheap enough.
 
OP
OP

MCB18

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 16, 2023
Messages
824
Location
Colorado
Format
Medium Format
I am realizing that 220 is a lot of pictures. I’m only on frame 4, and my camera has had this roll in it since last week…
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6,652
Format
35mm
I am realizing that 220 is a lot of pictures. I’m only on frame 4, and my camera has had this roll in it since last week…

Yep. That's why I stopped 220ing. It's too many photos for medium format for me. I'm doing half-frames 120 now and 24 frames is a lot of frames.
 
OP
OP

MCB18

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 16, 2023
Messages
824
Location
Colorado
Format
Medium Format
Yep. That's why I stopped 220ing. It's too many photos for medium format for me. I'm doing half-frames 120 now and 24 frames is a lot of frames.

My AT-1 has had a 36 exposure roll of 250D in it for months now, lol. Not much to photograph in winter.
 
OP
OP

MCB18

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 16, 2023
Messages
824
Location
Colorado
Format
Medium Format
You know, it just occurred to me that I saw your name crop up on a thread. You don’t like cutting 70mm down?
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
6,652
Format
35mm
You know, it just occurred to me that I saw your name crop up on a thread. You don’t like cutting 70mm down?

I'd rather be able to afford buying 120 as is but I can't afford it. Where I stand I enjoy cutting down 70mm because it allows me to shoot 120 when otherwise I wouldn't really be able to shoot much of it. But in a perfect word I'd rather just buy it. Then again, in a perfect world I'd have a lab develop my film and get the stuff drum scanned.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
1,233
Location
Calexico, CA
Format
Multi Format
What we can do instead using filters to avoid unnatural tonality or it is inherent for IR emulsions?

Well this film was formulated with improved IR sensibility in order to pass through atmospheric haze so it is different than normal film. However, I get results I like using POTA developers, which is designed for improved grays on high contrast film. Have used both Aviphot 40 and 200 (both bulk loaded) and had pleasant results with this developers than, say D76.

Also, developer dilution, temperature, development and agitation rutine may give you pleasant results.
 

svetoklik

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2023
Messages
48
Location
Bg
Format
Medium Format
Not much to photograph in winter.
It is lab time, otherwise we will have it re branded as a Moon Digiphot from Lomo. Grain like noise, white holes for ruining composition, highlights roll of like from cheap semiconductors.
:"Also, developer dilution, temperature, development and agitation routine may give you pleasant results"
 

svetoklik

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2023
Messages
48
Location
Bg
Format
Medium Format
However, I get results I like using POTA developers, which is designed for improved grays on high contrast film. Have used both Aviphot 40 and 200 (both bulk loaded) and had pleasant results

Would you be so kind and post some examples and more information about POTA developers?
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom