Very strange fine-lined, wavy, marks on film?

Tom Kershaw · Oct 15, 2019

What About Bob said:
I will keep it going. I really wanted those lines to be there in those two rolls. I could have used those rolls for something important. Well at least I have times and temperatures down pat for Pan F Plus and Rodinal at 1:50 so I guess it wasn't a total waste. Now this last roll: If I shoot something important the lines will show up, if I shoot poo-poo pictures I bet I get no lines, lol. Feeling Lucky?

Pan F Plus and Rodinal should make a good combination. In better news, I managed to make some good test prints from FP4 Plus / Ultrafin 1+24 negatives today on some fairly old (pre-Harman) Kentmere Fineprint gloss fibre base paper which still seems to be working fine.

Kino · Oct 15, 2019

Tom Kershaw said:
This is a good point. I'm not sure of the current situation but historically I believe ILFORD buy in the substrate, coat the emulsion and confection in house.

Same as ORWO

What About Bob · Oct 16, 2019

Ilford got back with me. I still have one last roll from that batch that I will be shooting so I will be crossing fingers that this one will have that defect. I did send Sue the sine wave example graphic that I posted here. Sadly it's all I could send to her. She knows of the defect from what happened about 5 years ago. Without a sample no one would be able to make a connection to anything recent. She mentioned that it maybe could be a new "mis-lace" issue. What is a mis-lace?

1/2 arc wavy lines, as she called them. Good description of the problem I saw.

I will still keep updated with this.

What About Bob · Oct 16, 2019

I forgot: Also it was mentioned that 5 years ago there was a stress or rubbing issue with films that affected only 10 meters of film due to a mis-lace.

AgX · Oct 17, 2019

What About Bob said:
She mentioned that it maybe could be a new "mis-lace" issue. What is a mis-lace?

A mishap at splicing two rolls of film base.

MattKing · Oct 17, 2019

AgX said:
A mishap at splicing two rolls of film base.

For clarity, when AgX refers to two "rolls" he is most likely referring to two large production rolls - much bigger and longer than a single roll of film.

AgX · Oct 17, 2019

Yes.

Neither film nor paper base may run out off the coating machine on its own. Time consuming and material consuming re-fiddling would be the case. Thus a leader resp. a tail are spliced to the base.
For longer production runs (or even continously as in the past) rolls of base material are spliced together just during the coating runs.

Sue from Harman seems to think one possible cause could be not a fault at the manufacturer of that base, but instead at Harman during such base-to-base splicing operation.

What About Bob · Oct 17, 2019

Thanks AgX and MattKing for explaining what that is.

mpirie · Oct 17, 2019

Did you read this thread about filaments on FP4+?

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/elaborate-scratches-on-negative.169960/

Mike

What About Bob · Oct 17, 2019

mpirie said:
Did you read this thread about filaments on FP4+?

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/elaborate-scratches-on-negative.169960/

Mike

Just did. I hope someone from Ilford can get back on this. So now there are two things going on. What are the batch numbers and dates of the FP4 and HP5 films having this problem?

Tomorrow I am going to shoot and develop my final roll of Pan F Plus 120, from the batch that had the defect, in hopes that I could have something to mail to them. I was supposed to do this today but things came up.

What About Bob · Oct 19, 2019

I went to the post office this morning and sent out that last roll of Pan F Plus 120 film to Ilford. That last roll had the sine waves on it. I had to use regular mailing because of the rather high cost of sending it out quicker. I hope that my negative samples will be of help to them. They were night-time scenes near downtown Northampton. I will keep everyone updated on this.

Tom Kershaw · Oct 19, 2019

Hi Bob,

Thanks for sending the film off to ILFORD for checking. I haven't seen the 'waves' again on other films but will obviously be on the look-out, and haven't yet used any more from the remaining Delta 100 batch I'm suspicious of.

Tom

feral_capitalist · Oct 21, 2019

Tom Kershaw said:
Have you seen this on sheet film or purely on 120?

Yes this is on 120. I thought only HP5 was affected since its usually "the go to film for newbies" so quality wasn't a big deal. Well now that it affects Pan F I'm worried. I've shot a box of FP4 with no issues so I'll continue with using their sheet film.

AgX · Oct 22, 2019

AgX said:
At any production a artefact that just-not affects the product quality must be avoided at all. A production in the hope it will not matter is utmost risky. More so when most tiny tolerances at such artefact decide over it appearing or not. More so in a industry as ours, where not each and every product can be controlled and were the late recognition of a fault may mean the loss of a small fortune.

Let us assume the scratches we talk about originated from before the film left the coating machine, and let us further assume that Harman's online defects-control can differentiate between scratches that will show in transmission and those that will not. So in such case it would be not about hope but knowledge. Why then not just let the latter pass to finishing? A difficult decision, and I am glad not to decide. Who will be harmed? No one. Who will be worried or even cry out? Some nerds in some forum.

Very strange fine-lined, wavy, marks on film?

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